Subwoofer inputs and home audio question. Mildly Technical

[Googer]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn

Originally posted by: Googer

Well, I mean both; stereo bass sources (woofer,subwoofer) would be awesome and it's not that the equipment could handle it, but hearing two Bass (intruments) coming from two differant places in the same room playing differnt notes. Stereo separation of musicians. Eric Clapton's Layla is a possible example of this. If I remember it takes two bass guitars to play it.

Just a temporary link to a Bass-y Jazz Standard. (will be delted soon)
http://media.putfile.com/-95-77

Yes but not really possible with 2.1 setups with tiny 3" drivers.

Granted the midrange *may* trick you into hearing both sides with the "subwoofer" blending in but we definitely prefer the sound of two channels with full 20-20k response and let the subwoofer handle the true sub-bass.

I know that, but I am calling for a 2.2 (or 3.2, 4.2, 5.2, 6.2, 7.2, etc) system with two subwoofers that can play separate autonomous sounds from two differant bass instrumens.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Googer

I know that, but I am calling for a 2.2 (or 3.2, 4.2, 5.2, 6.2, 7.2, etc) system with two subwoofers that can play separate autonomous sounds from two differant bass instrumens.

There's too much that can go wrong in a setup like that. That added that everyone pays attention to the specs of their equipment while ignoring how important it is to have the very room it sits in set up properly.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn

Originally posted by: Googer

I know that, but I am calling for a 2.2 (or 3.2, 4.2, 5.2, 6.2, 7.2, etc) system with two subwoofers that can play separate autonomous sounds from two differant bass instrumens.

There's too much that can go wrong in a setup like that. That added that everyone pays attention to the specs of their equipment while ignoring how important it is to have the very room it sits in set up properly.

How is that so? No recording has ever existed or been masterd to have two separate bass tracks. How is this a technical problem, what can go wrong?

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Googer

How is that so? No recording has ever existed or been masterd to have two separate bass tracks. How is this a technical problem, what can go wrong?

It sets the stage for a plethora of listening issues (not that this is not a problem with current two channel setups) that (abatement) go way beyond the scope of most of the users out there.

A good two channel system can produce a soundstage well beyond the physical boundaries of the two speakers in the listening room. The listener enjoys the recording just as the producer/engineer intended. Of course that's easier said than done AND with today's productions sometimes "enjoyment" becomes intolerable. :Q

 

[Googer]

(not verbatim)

An old Chineese proverb says "Those who say it can't be done should not get in the way of those who say it can be done."

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Googer
(not verbatim)

An old Chineese proverb says "Those who say it can't be done should not get in the way of those who say it can be done."

You're missing the point.

This is like carrying two flyswatters - one in each hand to kill ONE fly. :laugh:

There is no need for n.2. If you want more bass just add another subwoofer.

In the frequency range that subwoofers are supposed to be used at, localization of the source is not an issue.

A speaker that goes up to 200Hz is not a subwoofer.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn

Originally posted by: Googer
(not verbatim)

An old Chineese proverb says "Those who say it can't be done should not get in the way of those who say it can be done."

You're missing the point.

This is like carrying two flyswatters - one in each hand to kill ONE fly. :laugh:

There is no need for n.2. If you want more bass just add another subwoofer.

In the frequency range that subwoofers are supposed to be used at, localization of the source is not an issue.

A speaker that goes up to 200Hz is not a subwoofer.

I understand that. But I think that text cannot convey what it is that I am trying to say. We are clearly at a mis-understanding.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Googer
Acording to DTS, if you buy a new Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player it should come standard with HD Audio decoding.
http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dtshd-master-audio-with-existing-receiver.php

The solution: Get a Playstation 3.

The PS3 would have to have 5.1 analog output to get to my AVP-7 which lacks HDMI input.
Plus I'm not doing blueray.

The first gen HD-DVD players have analog output, but I'm afraid that feature will be dropped for newer products.

Thanks for the links though Googer. I think I'm just going to have to wait and see what happens.

I really doubt that analogue will disappear from audio sources and I fairly comfortable in saying that on the high end Analogue is not going anywhere. Also HD-DVD/Blu-Ray (from my reading) supports high bitrate/samplerate 7.1 audio.

However I am hoping in the future that it will support 7.2 or 10.1 channel. 7.2, because Wouldn't it be cool to hear a pair of Jazz Bass players playing separate chords coming from two stereo subwoofers?

I'm not sure you're understanding what my problem is.

Example

Old model
Toshiba HD-XA1
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-SJUTO0cB6D...i-bin/ProdView.asp?g=279850&I=052HDXA1

This has 5.1 analog output so I could connect it to my preamp/processor via the 5.1 analog input.

New model
Toshiba HD-A2
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-SJUTO0cB6DI/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=279850&I=052HDA2

I can only get the "Dolby True HD" and such from HDMI on this. I do not have an HDMI input on my preamp/processor. I have no way to connect it and get those audio tracks off the disc. I can still get DD/DTS, but not the new formats.

Players are dropping support of multichannel analog and just using HDMI to send audio.

 

[Googer]

I will do my best to return the favor of helping you. But with out having done much research, my quickest answer is to consider an Integra 10.5 (With HDMI and 1394 addons). The base Price is $3,800 and well equiped it runs around $5,000. I will try to find out more later.

 

[EvilYoda]

man, you guys are still going? Just keep it to AVS or HTF, it's always the same people here.

I'll join you over there though.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
man, you guys are still going? Just keep it to AVS or HTF, it's always the same people here.

I'll join you over there though.

Thanks for the inspriation, Anandtech needs a Home Audio section with YOyoYOhowsDAjello as the Hometheater forum moderator. I will add a poll to this page.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Googer
I will do my best to return the favor of helping you. But with out having done much research, my quickest answer is to consider an Integra 10.5 (With HDMI and 1394 addons). The base Price is $3,800 and well equiped it runs around $5,000. I will try to find out more later.

If I wanted to spend that much, I'd just get a new pre/pro

I just want a future solution that's relatively cheap and hopefully I can use my existing pre/pro.

I figure worst case scenario, I can just get a midrange receiver and plug HDMI from an HD player and then use it's pre-outs to run into my multichannel analog input on my pro/pro.

Don't feel obligated at all to look into this anymore

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
man, you guys are still going? Just keep it to AVS or HTF, it's always the same people here.

I'll join you over there though.

Thanks for the inspriation, Anandtech needs a Home Audio section with YOyoYOhowsDAjello as the Hometheater forum moderator. I will add a poll to this page.

I'm just a guy with a hobby, there are a bunch of people here that know more than I do on a wide variety of subjects on audio stuff. I just hang around here too much

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
man, you guys are still going? Just keep it to AVS or HTF, it's always the same people here.

I'll join you over there though.

Thanks for the inspriation, Anandtech needs a Home Audio section with YOyoYOhowsDAjello as the Hometheater forum moderator. I will add a poll to this page.

I'm just a guy with a hobby, there are a bunch of people here that know more than I do on a wide variety of subjects on audio stuff. I just hang around here too much

But it will be fun to see how popular and loved you are. The Jello is our favorite soundman!


Same here, I don't take it too seriously or spend a whole lot of money on it. What good is it to spend a years salary on a system (computer, audio, video, etc) then have no content to play because you have no money left! Then all you have is a very expensive paperweight. It's the music that matters.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

I think it's time to stop this thread

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
I think it's time to stop this thread

Not untill you vote.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Googer
I will do my best to return the favor of helping you. But with out having done much research, my quickest answer is to consider an Integra 10.5 (With HDMI and 1394 addons). The base Price is $3,800 and well equiped it runs around $5,000. I will try to find out more later.

If I wanted to spend that much, I'd just get a new pre/pro

I just want a future solution that's relatively cheap and hopefully I can use my existing pre/pro.

I figure worst case scenario, I can just get a midrange receiver and plug HDMI from an HD player and then use it's pre-outs to run into my multichannel analog input on my pro/pro.

Don't feel obligated at all to look into this anymore

Other than the sound it produces, the beauty of the Integra 10.5 is it's resistance to obsolesence. When a connection is too old a hundred dollars or so is all you need to bring it up to speed. It's kind of like upgrading your graphics card, instead of replaceing the whole PC just to get a DVI port you add to (or replace) the one card on the 10.5 for a hundred bucks or so. But I am pretty sure you already knew that.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Ok, fine, here are my answers:

Should Anandtech make a Hometheater Section of the Forums?
No, it's not a topic AT covers on the main site and there aren't enough posts about it to justify it. PC Audio, IMO, is fine being a part of peripherals. If AT started doing more audio card reviews, articles on different speakers available, etc. then ok, it might be fine. This kind of forum probably be more of a general Audio forum and be focused a lot on PC Audio, sound cards, etc. I think they're trying to keep this forum focused on computer equipment from what it seems like.

Just for reference, look at how long people have wanted to split Programming from the Software section and such, that hasn't happened yet - why would this happen any sooner?

If such a home audio section were created, would you nominate YOyoYOhowsDAjello as the Official AV forum Moderator?
Sure, no reason not to.

If an AV section were created Would you recomend the Ban or Lock of any thread with BOSE in the TITLE or Opening Post?
No, that's a fanboy move or something someone would do just because they want to join the Bose hating bandwagon.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Googer
I will do my best to return the favor of helping you. But with out having done much research, my quickest answer is to consider an Integra 10.5 (With HDMI and 1394 addons). The base Price is $3,800 and well equiped it runs around $5,000. I will try to find out more later.

If I wanted to spend that much, I'd just get a new pre/pro

I just want a future solution that's relatively cheap and hopefully I can use my existing pre/pro.

I figure worst case scenario, I can just get a midrange receiver and plug HDMI from an HD player and then use it's pre-outs to run into my multichannel analog input on my pro/pro.

Don't feel obligated at all to look into this anymore

Other than the sound it produces, the beauty of the Integra 10.5 is it's resistance to obsolesence. When a connection is too old a hundred dollars or so is all you need to bring it up to speed. It's kind of like upgrading your graphics card, instead of replaceing the whole PC just to get a DVI port you add to (or replace) the one card on the 10.5 for a hundred bucks or so. But I am pretty sure you already knew that.

It's certainly a very nice feature to have, but I'm way too poor to spend $3800-$5000 on something other than a mind blowing level of upgrade. We're talking going from my 720p LCD projector to a 1080p DLP projector or something.

I don't think I would get close to a justifyable utility gain from that Integra for me to even consider it a good buy

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Ok, fine, here are my answers:


If an AV section were created Would you recomend the Ban or Lock of any thread with BOSE in the TITLE or Opening Post?
No, that's a fanboy move or something someone would do just because they want to join the Bose hating bandwagon.

The last one was just an attempt to be silly. I am not serious about that.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Googer
I will do my best to return the favor of helping you. But with out having done much research, my quickest answer is to consider an Integra 10.5 (With HDMI and 1394 addons). The base Price is $3,800 and well equiped it runs around $5,000. I will try to find out more later.

If I wanted to spend that much, I'd just get a new pre/pro

I just want a future solution that's relatively cheap and hopefully I can use my existing pre/pro.

I figure worst case scenario, I can just get a midrange receiver and plug HDMI from an HD player and then use it's pre-outs to run into my multichannel analog input on my pro/pro.

Don't feel obligated at all to look into this anymore

Other than the sound it produces, the beauty of the Integra 10.5 is it's resistance to obsolesence. When a connection is too old a hundred dollars or so is all you need to bring it up to speed. It's kind of like upgrading your graphics card, instead of replaceing the whole PC just to get a DVI port you add to (or replace) the one card on the 10.5 for a hundred bucks or so. But I am pretty sure you already knew that.

It's certainly a very nice feature to have, but I'm way too poor to spend $3800-$5000 on something other than a mind blowing level of upgrade. We're talking going from my 720p LCD projector to a 1080p DLP projector or something.

I don't think I would get close to a justifyable utility gain from that Integra for me to even consider it a good buy

There's always it's cheaper cousin. The TX-NR1000. But even that should be hard for most collage students to justify.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Ok, fine, here are my answers:


If an AV section were created Would you recomend the Ban or Lock of any thread with BOSE in the TITLE or Opening Post?
No, that's a fanboy move or something someone would do just because they want to join the Bose hating bandwagon.

The last one was just an attempt to be silly. I am not serious about that.

Hehe, my bad, it's a bit late (3:20AM over here)

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Googer
I will do my best to return the favor of helping you. But with out having done much research, my quickest answer is to consider an Integra 10.5 (With HDMI and 1394 addons). The base Price is $3,800 and well equiped it runs around $5,000. I will try to find out more later.

If I wanted to spend that much, I'd just get a new pre/pro

I just want a future solution that's relatively cheap and hopefully I can use my existing pre/pro.

I figure worst case scenario, I can just get a midrange receiver and plug HDMI from an HD player and then use it's pre-outs to run into my multichannel analog input on my pro/pro.

Don't feel obligated at all to look into this anymore

Other than the sound it produces, the beauty of the Integra 10.5 is it's resistance to obsolesence. When a connection is too old a hundred dollars or so is all you need to bring it up to speed. It's kind of like upgrading your graphics card, instead of replaceing the whole PC just to get a DVI port you add to (or replace) the one card on the 10.5 for a hundred bucks or so. But I am pretty sure you already knew that.

It's certainly a very nice feature to have, but I'm way too poor to spend $3800-$5000 on something other than a mind blowing level of upgrade. We're talking going from my 720p LCD projector to a 1080p DLP projector or something.

I don't think I would get close to a justifyable utility gain from that Integra for me to even consider it a good buy

There's always it's cheaper cousin. The TX-NR1000. But even that should be hard for most collage students to justify.

I'm sure things are going to change a lot by the time I'm actually thinking about buying something

I have several things to buy before that :evil:

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Ok, fine, here are my answers:


If an AV section were created Would you recomend the Ban or Lock of any thread with BOSE in the TITLE or Opening Post?
No, that's a fanboy move or something someone would do just because they want to join the Bose hating bandwagon.

The last one was just an attempt to be silly. I am not serious about that.

Hehe, my bad, it's a bit late (3:20AM over here)

BAN