Subwoofer inputs and home audio question. Mildly Technical

[Googer]

What is the differance between the various inputs on the back of my Klipsch Synnergy Subwoofer? What is High Level and Low Level Inputs? Does High Level bypass the internal BASH amplifier?

Which inputs should I use on a Dennon or Onkyo reciever?

RCA Style Input(s) (Output?)
-Line In
*Left/LFE (What does LFE mean?)
*Right

-Terminal Style
*High Level in Right and Left
*High Level out Right and Left

-Phase
*0° and 180°
What exactly does this do?

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[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Just when I was about to go to bed

Don't use the high level inputs unless you have to. This would be if you didn't have a receiver with a subwoofer output.

A reasonably recent Denon / Onkyo will have an subwoofer pre-out / LFE (Low Frequency Effects) output.

You'll want to connect the subwoofer / LFE output from the receiver to the LFE input on the sub (you just need to connect to one "left/LFE", not both "left/LFE and Right"). Make sure to set the crossover appropriately based on your speakers. (Use the receiver's crossover, bypass the sub's filter by setting it high)

The phase is to help you get the sub in phase with your speakers. Try both and see what sounds better.

Did you just buy this or something? What's going on here? You have a receiver but you don't know if it's a Denon or Onkyo?

I just spent like an hour moving my sub around the apartment today and I'm still not quite happy with the situation

 

[Excelsior]

Just use the LFE RCA input. Pick up an RCA cable if you don't already have one, like this.

Hook that RCA cable up to the subwoofer out on your receiver, and of course set the appropriate crossover (80Hz is pretty much the "standard").

I'd turn the low pass knob all the way clockwise.

 

[biggestmuff]

Originally posted by: Googer
What is the differance between the various inputs on the back of my Klipsch Synnergy Subwoofer? What is High Level and Low Level Inputs? Does High Level bypass the internal BASH amplifier?

Which inputs should I use on a Dennon or Onkyo reciever?

If you're wanting to use the internal amp on the sub, then use the Denon or Onkyo pre-amp outputs to the low-level connections on the sub. This is a pre-amp signal. Get it? PRE = before and AMP = amplifier. The signal needs to be boosted by an amplifier to make it loud.

Originally posted by: Googer

RCA Style Input(s) (Output?)
-Line In
*Left/LFE (What does LFE mean?)
*Right

Pre-amp, low-level, line-level; they all mean the same type of signal. These are all a type of signal that gets passed to and from equipment then on to an amplifier.

Originally posted by: Googer

-Terminal Style
*High Level in Right and Left
*High Level out Right and Left

These can be called amp level, high level or speaker level outputs. These types of signals leave an amp and connect to a speaker.

These are the basics.

What speakers did you get?

I just finished putting together a Klipsch system; RB-61s with an RC-52 and four RS-42s. I'm still deciding on a sub from SVS. In the meantime I'm using a monster of a sub from Sony.

 

[ethebubbeth]

You'd want to use the low level RCA connections, they are designed for accepting the line level signal output by the subwoofer pre-out on your amplifier. LFE stands for low frequency effects, or the .1 in 5.1. It is referring to the subwoofer of course ^_~). The high level inputs are for amps without a dedicated preamp (for instance, a two channel amplifier with A & B stereo outputs). You could take the left and right channels of the B speaker outputs and send them to the subwoofer to get the low frequencies.

The phase settings helps prevent destructive resonance between the subwoofer and your main speakers. Adjust the phase so that the volume of your setup does not vary when dropping across the crossover frequency range between your main speakers and your subwoofer (best to use a calibration disc to set this up. also, you pretty much need two people. One at the listening position and one to adjust the phase).

Edit: dangit, took too long to reply. others beat me to it

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

So like the middle of the night is subwoofer expert time?

 

[biggestmuff]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Just use the LFE RCA input. Pick up an RCA cable if you don't already have one, like this.

Hook that RCA cable up to the subwoofer out on your receiver, and of course set the appropriate crossover (80Hz is pretty much the "standard").

I'd turn the low pass knob all the way clockwise.

What he said. 80 Hz on the sub is standard, but set the sub's crossover to max. Once you set up your receiver, the receiver will then control the crossover of the LFE channel.

 

[biggestmuff]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
So like the middle of the night is subwoofer expert time?

I don't know about expert, but there are a few of us up and about, huh? :beer:

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Alright Googer, I want a full report on wtf is going on when I wake up.

Goodnight subwoofer people

 

[ethebubbeth]

Originally posted by: biggestmuff
I just finished putting together a Klipsch system; RB-61s with an RC-52 and four RS-42s. I'm still deciding on a sub from SVS. In the meantime I'm using a monster of a sub from Sony.

That is a very nice setup there. How are you going to go about arranging the four surround speakers?

My setup is as follows:
2x RF-3
1x RC-3
2x RC-35
1x SVS 20-39 PC?Plus

All driven by a Denon 3805.

I would HIGHLY recommend the 20-39 pc plus for your setup. It really seems like Denon, Klipsch, and SVS form a perfectly matched triad. They all complement each other's timbres and blend seamlessly.

 

[Googer]

Thanks!

I did buy a set of Klipsch Quintet III's and Matching Synergy Subwoofer for Half Price on Black Friday. I am considering a Denon AVR-3806 at Costco but it's price makes me think twice. However Costco is selling it for $100 less than the less capable AVR-2807's list price. A little more realistic is the Onkyo TX-SR803

Things I like about Onkyo:
Clarity and fidelity.
High Frequency responce up to 100KHz for SACD
The Onkyo Reputation

Things I like about Denon:
Power, Power, and Power
Good Clairty
Good video capabilities (on certain models)
Denon Link DVD compatability. Denon DVD rocks and is a swinging factor in purchasing a DENON Reciever.


I am also scouring Craigslist for some lightly used equipment in hopes of striking a good deal. The one I am looking at appers to be older than what the seller lists in his ad. My reasearch show that the AVR-2805 is a 2004 model and can be found as new old stock for $500. Would $250-300 be a reasonable offer for this?

Now go to bed and I will wait untill morning for any other answers. I'd hate to be the reason that you dont get any sleep!

 

[biggestmuff]

I have an RS-42 to the side and slightly forward of the viewing position. Then, I have two more mounted five feet apart on the back wall which is around six from behind the viewing position. They have a great enveloping sound creating a fantastic atmosphere. I'm still tweaking it, though. I'm using an Onkyo 804 to drive them.

 

[Googer]

I also want to get a reciever with matching DVD player, because I would like to take advantage of any proprietary interlinking capabilities and having remote control interchagability (with minimal funtion loss and/or programming) is a very nice conveinence.

 

[Googer]

My sattelites- $250 Black Friday Special.
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/quintet-iii.aspx

 

[ethebubbeth]

Originally posted by: Googer
I am also scouring Craigslist for some lightly used equipment in hopes of striking a good deal. The one I am looking at appers to be older than what the seller lists in his ad. My reasearch show that the AVR-2805 is a 2004 model and can be found as new old stock for $500. Would $250-300 be a reasonable offer for this?

Now go to bed and I will wait untill morning for any other answers. I'd hate to be the reason that you dont get any sleep!

You're not the reason I'm not getting any sleep... but that's a LOOOOONG story.

I personally love my Denon 3805. I got it off ebay from a local seller for $500, so your offer should be more than reasonable for the 2805. Before the Denon I had a low end Onkyo, so I cannot comment on the quality of the 800 series. Check dealers around your place as well. The place I bought mine from was a custom HT solutions installer. It was a demo model for one of their showroom systems. That scared me at first... until I found out that they do demos by appointment only. It had been used about two hours a week for a year. Only reason they were selling it was to make room for the 3806.

 

[biggestmuff]

Originally posted by: Googer
I also want to get a reciever with matching DVD player, because I would like to take advantage of any proprietary interlinking capabilities and having remote control interchagability (with minimal funtion loss and/or programming) is a very nice conveinence.

I wouldn't worry about that too much. Purchase your HT components based on the quality of the individual unit. Most of the A/V receivers that you mentioned will include a nice programmable remote that will operate other devices. I've never bought a multi-function remote. The remote in my previous (now bedroom) Onkyo 800, was great. The one bundled with the 804 is even better.

 

[ethebubbeth]

Originally posted by: biggestmuff
I wouldn't worry about that too much. Purchase your HT components based on the quality of the individual unit. Most of the A/V receivers that you mentioned will include a nice programmable remote that will operate other devices. I've never bought a multi-function remote. The remote in my previous (now bedroom) Onkyo 800, was great. The one bundled with the 804 is even better.

Ditto. The cheapest dvd player that supports denon link is ~$800 msrp. It is one hell of an upconverting player though... does dvd-a and sacd through denon link as well. The problem is... why pay more for a dvd player than a hd-dvd device. It is prolly the best dvd player ever made, but almost seems like a step backward XD

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: biggestmuff

Originally posted by: Googer
I also want to get a reciever with matching DVD player, because I would like to take advantage of any proprietary interlinking capabilities and having remote control interchagability (with minimal funtion loss and/or programming) is a very nice conveinence.

I wouldn't worry about that too much. Purchase your HT components based on the quality of the individual unit. Most of the A/V receivers that you mentioned will include a nice programmable remote that will operate other devices. I've never bought a multi-function remote. The remote in my previous (now bedroom) Onkyo 800, was great. The one bundled with the 804 is even better.

Buying components based on quality is very true and DENON's DVD line up is considered to be a benchmark and it just so happens that they also make decent recievers too. If Onkyo made a decent DVD player with SACD support, then I think my vote would swing more in their favor. When it comes to recievers my opinion and the general concensus is that both companies are about even and when choosing which one, it will come down to the tiny details.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Googer
Thanks!

I did buy a set of Klipsch Quintet III's and Matching Synergy Subwoofer for Half Price on Black Friday. I am considering a Denon AVR-3806 at Costco but it's price makes me think twice. However Costco is selling it for $100 less than the less capable AVR-2807's list price. A little more realistic is the Onkyo TX-SR803

Things I like about Onkyo:
Clarity and fidelity.
High Frequency responce up to 100KHz for SACD
The Onkyo Reputation

Things I like about Denon:
Power, Power, and Power
Good Clairty
Good video capabilities (on certain models)
Denon Link DVD compatability. Denon DVD rocks and is a swinging factor in purchasing a DENON Reciever.


I am also scouring Craigslist for some lightly used equipment in hopes of striking a good deal. The one I am looking at appers to be older than what the seller lists in his ad. My reasearch show that the AVR-2805 is a 2004 model and can be found as new old stock for $500. Would $250-300 be a reasonable offer for this?

Now go to bed and I will wait untill morning for any other answers. I'd hate to be the reason that you dont get any sleep!

Those are some good options, but those are pretty expensive for the speakers you got. You certainly got a good price on the speakers, but a ~$1000 receiver for $250 speakers that were originally $500 is a bit more than I would spend to try to get a good price/performance balance.

Something nice about receivers when you get into this range is you start getting not only HDMI inputs, but also conversion of analog sources to HDMI. If that's an important feature to you, then by all means go for it.

Also in this range a popular option would be one of the Pioneer Elite units.

If you haven't already, look around here and check out some of your options.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=90

Just as a general guideline, I think you should be spending at least as much on speakers as your receiver, and in most cases, more. I don't know exactly why I'm telling you this now, other that to say that getting a $1000 receiver for these might be overkill.

At over 90dB sensitivity, "Power, Power, and Power" might not need to be a priority.

As for the remote issue, I agree that you shouldn't have any problem integrating a DVD player to be used with your receiver. Even if you do have an issue, that could be solved with a nice Logitech Harmony remote that I might recommend getting anyway just for ease of use.

I would have a very hard time spending more than a couple hundred dollars on a DVD player now with how well some more inexpensive players are performing ( Oppo 971 for example scoring 98% on the Secrets test ) and HD-DVD players coming down in price.

As for 100kHz on the Onkyo's output, that's not really going to make any difference unless your speakers are capable of getting up there too. The 3806 manual gives 100kHz as it's -3dB point as well.

Overall I think that 2805 on Craigslist might be a better idea for you
Looking off completed ebay auctions / audiogon / videogon though, $400-ish seems about right for that one?

 

[Googer]

Thanks, Jello.

I was aware that most of what I am looking for in a reciever is redundant. But I do like the thought of having room to grow with out having to change my reciever for at least 10+ years. The speakers (Quintet) I will probably use for 3-4 years and then give them to my parents when I decide to upgrade. Power certainly won't be needed now (50watts RMS) but like I said, I do see my self replacing these in the future.

 

[spidey07]

Just to chime in...

There are very good reasons to use the speaker-level inputs on your sub. Especially if you want quality bass without phase problems or using DACs. For home theater, probably best to just use the line out with a single sub.

For two channel - probably "it depends". If you want good music you'll probably use the crossover in the sub.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Googer
Thanks, Jello.

I was aware that most of what I am looking for in a reciever is redundant. But I do like the thought of having room to grow with out having to change my reciever for at least 10+ years. The speakers (Quintet) I will probably use for 3-4 years and then give them to my parents when I decide to upgrade. Power certainly won't be needed now (50watts RMS) but like I said, I do see my self replacing these in the future.

I see what you mean, but I have a hard time thinking about keeping a receiver for 10+ years with how audio and video standards are changing with HDMI and such. I don't really know how long it's going to be until the "next new thing" is going to come out. It seems like a receiver is the component that's going to become obsolete the soonest while speakers and sub could last quite a while.

Nothing wrong with getting a nice receiver though knowing that you'll be able to keep it for a while and not have it bottleneck your performance except for possibly miss some newer input formats. I don't have HDMI on my preamp/processor right now and it's making me a bit worried about HD-DVD players (mainly the sound end of things), but I'm not losing any sleep over it

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Just to chime in...

There are very good reasons to use the speaker-level inputs on your sub. Especially if you want quality bass without phase problems or using DACs. For home theater, probably best to just use the line out with a single sub.

For two channel - probably "it depends". If you want good music you'll probably use the crossover in the sub.

All the recievers that I have looked at have only one Subwoofer output. When would I ever want to or need to use the right side input?

Also would it be better if I purchased a separate amplifier for the subwoofer. And if I did, wouldn't the sub-out from the reciever go directly in to the discrete amplifier then to the high level inputs?

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Googer
Thanks, Jello.

I was aware that most of what I am looking for in a reciever is redundant. But I do like the thought of having room to grow with out having to change my reciever for at least 10+ years. The speakers (Quintet) I will probably use for 3-4 years and then give them to my parents when I decide to upgrade. Power certainly won't be needed now (50watts RMS) but like I said, I do see my self replacing these in the future.

I see what you mean, but I have a hard time thinking about keeping a receiver for 10+ years with how audio and video standards are changing with HDMI and such. I don't really know how long it's going to be until the "next new thing" is going to come out. It seems like a receiver is the component that's going to become obsolete the soonest while speakers and sub could last quite a while.

Nothing wrong with getting a nice receiver though knowing that you'll be able to keep it for a while and not have it bottleneck your performance except for possibly miss some newer input formats. I don't have HDMI on my preamp/processor right now and it's making me a bit worried about HD-DVD players (mainly the sound end of things), but I'm not losing any sleep over it

Your system will only sound as good as the speakers you are using. That is why I dream of BOSE.

HDMI on a reciever is not necessary. There are always separate higher quality third party "breakout" solutions like HDMI switches.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Googer
Thanks, Jello.

I was aware that most of what I am looking for in a reciever is redundant. But I do like the thought of having room to grow with out having to change my reciever for at least 10+ years. The speakers (Quintet) I will probably use for 3-4 years and then give them to my parents when I decide to upgrade. Power certainly won't be needed now (50watts RMS) but like I said, I do see my self replacing these in the future.

I see what you mean, but I have a hard time thinking about keeping a receiver for 10+ years with how audio and video standards are changing with HDMI and such. I don't really know how long it's going to be until the "next new thing" is going to come out. It seems like a receiver is the component that's going to become obsolete the soonest while speakers and sub could last quite a while.

Nothing wrong with getting a nice receiver though knowing that you'll be able to keep it for a while and not have it bottleneck your performance except for possibly miss some newer input formats. I don't have HDMI on my preamp/processor right now and it's making me a bit worried about HD-DVD players (mainly the sound end of things), but I'm not losing any sleep over it

HDMI on a reciever is not necessary. There are always separate higher quality third party "breakout" solutions like HDMI switches.

I'm just worried about getting a multichannel PCM stream into my system somehow, not really worried about the video end of things.