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Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees

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MAYBE you should realize that the shirts have an IMAGE (replica) of the flag on it, and are NOT actual FLAGS.

At any rate, your point is moot.

"They said we could wear it on any other day,"

Whelp, can't really argue with your second point. I definitely failed at reading the OP. Note to self...finals week = no reading.

However, my ROTC training stated that even images/replicas of the flag used as clothing were against the flag code, and thus disrespecting the flag. It falls under the section of the flag code that mentions putting it on items that are used temporarily and then discarded.
 
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Technically, it is against flag etiquette to wear it as a piece of clothing. Perhaps the principal was former military (or familiar with military custom surrounding the flag) and was offended. It doesn't necessarily have to be a "he hates America" thing. It could in fact be the exact opposite.

From Wikipedia


Maybe you guys should learn proper flag etiquette before you go apeshit?

that is talking about the flag itself you fool. Not a representation of the flag.
 
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that is talking about the flag itself you fool. Not a representation of the flag.
Nice pwnage.

Sigh. Does it even matter that he is wrong?
Source: http://www.ushistory.org/BETSY/faq.htm
Are flags on T-shirts, ties, etc., really flags?

Yes. According to the Flag Code, a flag is anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag."

The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.

Source: Flag Code, Section 3

Therefore, a flag includes any representation of it of any substance, with stars and stripes of any number. This would include T-shirts and ties.

The Flag Code states that the flag should never be worn. (Section 8d): "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel."

Mind you, I don't really care if someone chooses to wear an image of the flag. I own a T-shirt myself. However, as I said originally, technically it violates the flag code and proper flag etiquette.
 
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Sigh. Does it even matter that he is wrong?
Source: http://www.ushistory.org/BETSY/faq.htm


Mind you, I don't really care if someone chooses to wear an image of the flag. I own a T-shirt myself. However, as I said originally, technically it violates the flag code and proper flag etiquette.

Uhhh... nice try but if that were the case then the military is "technically" "violating" the "flag code".
The last sentence you quoted is true however - a REAL flag should not be worn as clothing, nor made into clothing. I suppose the flag in your world is like Muhammad to muslims - no pictures or images can be used or it's against code 😉
 
Uhhh... nice try but if that were the case then the military is "technically" "violating" the "flag code".
The last sentence you quoted is true however - a REAL flag should not be worn as clothing, nor made into clothing. I suppose the flag in your world is like Muhammad to muslims - no pictures or images can be used or it's against code 😉
That's exactly what I thought until Carmen set me straight. (Thanks, buddy.) It's any image that a reasonable person would recognize as the flag, with an exception for uniforms for the military, firemen, police, etc. And I have to admit that, thinking back to my childhood, no one would have worn any representation of the flag, except hippy chicks on the back pocket. (That brings back some good memories!) Personally I too am fine (in fact, more than fine) with flag tee shirts, but that's preference; Carmen actually knows the flag etiquette.
 
So this is what America has come to, a person cannot wear his country's flag on a day when his neighboring country won a pathetic little war against their invaders, to whom they eventually lost their language, religion, name, culture, you name it... and now they come to this country and ask ppl here not so show solidarity to their nation just coz this day mean something to them on some irrelevant patriotic level, nothing to do with US though.
 
That's exactly what I thought until Carmen set me straight. (Thanks, buddy.) It's any image that a reasonable person would recognize as the flag, with an exception for uniforms for the military, firemen, police, etc. And I have to admit that, thinking back to my childhood, no one would have worn any representation of the flag, except hippy chicks on the back pocket. (That brings back some good memories!) Personally I too am fine (in fact, more than fine) with flag tee shirts, but that's preference; Carmen actually knows the flag etiquette.

Meh, I'll still disagree. If a pin is a "replica" then so is a picture of a waving flag on a tee shirt. No reasonable person would see a tee shirt as a flag, just as a reasonable person would not see a flag pin as a "flag".
 
You're right. I have a hard time imagining an American student being sent home from an American school for wearing an America flag...in Sweden.

Nice play on one part of my statement. Do you think a Swedish student would be sent home from a Swedish school for wearing a Swedish flag in Sweden? doubtful.
 
Meh, I'll still disagree. If a pin is a "replica" then so is a picture of a waving flag on a tee shirt. No reasonable person would see a tee shirt as a flag, just as a reasonable person would not see a flag pin as a "flag".
The difference as I understand it is that a shirt will degrade and must be destroyed whereas a lapel pin will not, but certainly it's possible for reasonable people to disagree at what point an item becomes a "temporary use". I tend to agree with you, but as Carmen has studied flag etiquette and I have not (at least since grammar school, when it was mandatory) I defer to his knowledge.
 
Well apparently the school had a walkout today.

No, it wasn't a walkout of students who were upset with the school and supported the school, it was a walkout of mainly mexican-american kids who wanted "....to bring out the message we are also Americans and we need Americans to show our culture respect of our Hispanic background" Of course, there is no mention of punishment for walking out of school for 90 minutes.

Unfucking believeable. Fuck your culture. If I wanted knowledge or understanding of hispanic culture I would visit Mexico or Latin America.
 
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Wait - Israel stole American land? 'Cause those kids in school were Americans of Mexican descent, even though it's clear their hearts belong to Mexico, and you certainly don't identify with America.

israel, what?

american settlers were seizing mexican land well into the 1920s.

Mexico is just taking back what was once theirs...LOL 😀
 
Uhhh... nice try but if that were the case then the military is "technically" "violating" the "flag code".
The last sentence you quoted is true however - a REAL flag should not be worn as clothing, nor made into clothing. I suppose the flag in your world is like Muhammad to muslims - no pictures or images can be used or it's against code 😉

My personal beliefs have nothing to do with it. The U.S. Flag code is not something I made up, it's federal law. The federal statute makes an exception for military uniforms (and a few other articles of clothing, but not for the general populace) and flag lapel pins (which must be worn over the heart), as werepossum above stated. The law does not apply only to "real" flags, as it specifically states that anything attempting to represent the flag...is a flag.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I was responsible for teaching proper flag etiquette to my ROTC unit when I was the Drill and Ceremonies Officer.

My own personal opinion: I don't really care. If someone wants to wear a flag as a sign of respect (or not), go for it. That doesn't change the fact that, technically, it's poor flag etiquette.
 
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Well apparently the school had a walkout today.

No, it wasn't a walkout of students who were upset with the school and supported the school, it was a walkout of mainly mexican-american kids who wanted "....to bring out the message we are also Americans and we need Americans to show our culture respect of our Hispanic background" Of course, there is no mention of punishment for walking out of school for 90 minutes.

Unfucking believeable. Fuck your culture. If I wanted knowledge or understanding of hispanic culture I would visit Mexico or Latin America.
link is broken.
 
My personal beliefs have nothing to do with it. The U.S. Flag code is not something I made up, it's federal law. The federal statute makes an exception for military uniforms (and a few other articles of clothing, but not for the general populace) and flag lapel pins (which must be worn over the heart), as werepossum above stated. The law does not apply only to "real" flags, as it specifically states that anything attempting to represent the flag...is a flag.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I was responsible for teaching proper flag etiquette to my ROTC unit when I was the Drill and Ceremonies Officer.

My own personal opinion: I don't really care. If someone wants to wear a flag as a sign of respect (or not), go for it. That doesn't change the fact that, technically, it's poor flag etiquette.

That code (I assume you are speaking of article 3) only applies to those living in Washington DC.
 
Burning the American flag is protected speech but somehow wearing it or wearing it wrong might offend someone and must not be allowed?


Bet they don't teach this at that school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District

In December 1965, Des Moines, Iowa residents John F. Tinker (15 years old), John's younger sister Mary Beth Tinker, (13 years old) and their friend Christopher Eckhardt (16 years old) decided to wear black armbands showing peace symbols on them to their schools (high school for John and Christopher, junior high for Mary Beth) in protest of the Vietnam War and supporting the Christmas Truce called for by Senator Robert F. Kennedy. The school board apparently heard rumor of this and chose to pass a policy banning the wearing of armbands to school. Violating students would be suspended and allowed to return to school after agreeing to comply with the policy. Mary Beth Tinker and Christopher Eckhardt chose to violate this policy, and the next day John Tinker also did so. All were suspended from school until after January 1, 1966, when their protest had been scheduled to end.
A suit was not filed until after the Iowa Civil Liberties Union approached their family, and the ICLU agreed to help the family with the lawsuit. Their parents, in turn, filed suit in U.S. District Court, which upheld the decision of the Des Moines school board. A tie vote in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit meant that the U.S. District Court's decision continued to stand, and forced the Tinkers and Eckhardts to appeal to the Supreme Court directly. The case was argued before the court on November 12, 1968.
[edit] Opinion of the Court

The court's 7 to 2 decision held that the First Amendment applied to public schools, and that administrators would have to demonstrate constitutionally valid reasons for any specific regulation of speech in the classroom. Justice Abe Fortas wrote the majority opinion, holding that the speech regulation at issue in Tinker was "based upon an urgent wish to avoid the controversy which might result from the expression, even by the silent symbol of armbands, of opposition to this Nation's part in the conflagration in Vietnam." The Court held that in order for school officials to justify censoring speech, they "must be able to show that [their] action was caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint," allowing schools to forbid conduct that would "materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school."[1] The Court found that the actions of the Tinkers in wearing armbands did not cause disruption and held that their activity represented constitutionally protected symbolic speech.
 
That code (I assume you are speaking of article 3) only applies to those living in Washington DC.

I saw that too. However, I believe that section is dealing specifically with the fines that can occur. The later half of that section however describes what a flag "is", so it would seem more consistent that the definition used there would apply to the entire statute. Section 8 then goes on to describe respect for the flag, and makes no mention of a specific part of the country. Put those two together, and it makes clothing a no-no. It seems unlikely that they would develop special flag rules for DC that do not apply to the rest of the country.

Basically, the punitive parts of the flag code only apply on DC because it is all federal ground. It's almost never enforced elsewhere. You run into 1st amendment issues.
 
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During the hostage crisis in 1980, I had a customer come to my restaurant wearing a Khomeini Tee. I told him to hit the road. He asked, "why?" I said "because of your Tee Shirt." He says, "I've got the right to wear whatever I feel like!" "Yup," I replied and, "I've got the right not to serve you. See ya."

I think the kids were pushing things like kids do and, the school admin. got all freaked out about 'risk management.' The kids shouldn't be suspended, the school and the parents need to calm down. Finally, the school admin needs to address the dress code if they want to avoid everyone getting their knickers in a twist in the future.
 
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