so wrong. college instate tuition and illegals

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

Very simple....we have thousands of non-violent criminals in our prison system that need to be "rehabilitated". To most bleeding hearts such as the ACLU that simply means having them sit around in circles singing Kumbaya and crying over the fact that they are addicts and have nothing to show for their wasted lives....FVCK THAT!!!

You wanna rehabilitate them?...put them to work. Have them build a wall across our border...not some flimsy bullsh!t chain link fence, I mean something like what the Soviets did in Germany, or what the Chinese did thousands of years ago.

A quality fence made of concrete, block, steel and razor wire can do wonders. We have technology to build bridges that span incredible distances....surely we can build a fence that is deep enough and tall enough that unless you are Spiderman or have the capability to burrow hundreds of feet underground, you are not getting in.

This is beneficial in several ways:
#1 cost...you don't have to pay a felon more than a few cents a day
#2 they will get rehabilitated
#3 they learn a trade that they can use anywhere there is construction going on...who knows, you may end up with a few good engineers out of it.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

1. Introduce federal ID cards with biometric information encoded into it.

Provide the gov't with a way of tracking everyone - Police state

2. Develop system so employers can verify legal status of all applicants.

Shutting down businesses because people don't have "papers" - Police state

3. Shut down businesses that knowingly employ illegals, and confiscate all their assets.

See above - Police state

4. Create seasonal work permits for workers wanting to do farm work.

More of the same, "work permits" are a staple of a Police state

5. Accept that prices on some services will go up, since we'll have to pay a fair wage for said services.

Just economically bad for everyone

6. Any illegals here now with kids born here stay, barring a criminal record. Any new illegals that come here to have kids will be thrown out, along with their kids.

Giving up the concept that being born in the US confers citizenship, and you need to prove your parents were citizens? - Police state

7. Deport anyone caught that is illegal immediately. No hearings, no lawyers.

Give up the rule of law? Police state

Heavily militarize the border.

Martial law? Police state by defiition

8. Problem solved.

the problem of freedom? Yup. Solved.

And just how else do you propose to do it? Your fear of a police state pretty much forbids anything from being done about the illegal immigrant invasion. How bout we just allow armed gangs of citizens to roam the border, and shoot anything brown skinned that moves. Would that be better?

How about we legalize immigration? I said it above: If you're healthy, don't have a criminal record and have proof of a line of work and place to stay, you're allowed in. IF you lie about any of that, we kick you out (or some other punishment).

Then, *gasp* we don't have a police state, and all the problems of illegals "not paying their way" are 100% gone.

if you're worried about "culture dissolution" fight for a law that makes English the official language of the government. That way, 100% of government documents are in English, and you have to know it to get by -- plus schools will teach only English as a first language and will Americanize their children.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

Very simple....we have thousands of non-violent criminals in our prison system that need to be "rehabilitated". To most bleeding hearts such as the ACLU that simply means having them sit around in circles singing Kumbaya and crying over the fact that they are addicts and have nothing to show for their wasted lives....FVCK THAT!!!

You wanna rehabilitate them?...put them to work. Have them build a wall across our border...not some flimsy bullsh!t chain link fence, I mean something like what the Soviets did in Germany, or what the Chinese did thousands of years ago.

A quality fence made of concrete, block, steel and razor wire can do wonders. We have technology to build bridges that span incredible distances....surely we can build a fence that is deep enough and tall enough that unless you are Spiderman or have the capability to burrow hundreds of feet underground, you are not getting in.

This is beneficial in several ways:
#1 cost...you don't have to pay a felon more than a few cents a day
#2 they will get rehabilitated
#3 they learn a trade that they can use anywhere there is construction going on...who knows, you may end up with a few good engineers out of it.

Yes, the Berlin wall...there was a shining monument to the human spirit.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

Very simple....we have thousands of non-violent criminals in our prison system that need to be "rehabilitated". To most bleeding hearts such as the ACLU that simply means having them sit around in circles singing Kumbaya and crying over the fact that they are addicts and have nothing to show for their wasted lives....FVCK THAT!!!

You wanna rehabilitate them?...put them to work. Have them build a wall across our border...not some flimsy bullsh!t chain link fence, I mean something like what the Soviets did in Germany, or what the Chinese did thousands of years ago.

A quality fence made of concrete, block, steel and razor wire can do wonders. We have technology to build bridges that span incredible distances....surely we can build a fence that is deep enough and tall enough that unless you are Spiderman or have the capability to burrow hundreds of feet underground, you are not getting in.

This is beneficial in several ways:
#1 cost...you don't have to pay a felon more than a few cents a day
#2 they will get rehabilitated
#3 they learn a trade that they can use anywhere there is construction going on...who knows, you may end up with a few good engineers out of it.

Yes, the Berlin wall...there was a shining monument to the human spirit.

it is not about spirit, it is about protecting what is ours....do you just let any stranger stroll right into your house and eat your food? Use your electricity? Your water? Your gas?....if you do let me know where you live...I'll be right over with a few friends and we'll have one hell of a party on your dime.

 

[Darthvoy]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: mugs
Illegals work and pay taxes to the state. As long as the federal government is content with ignoring them, the states are going to treat them like their other taxpayers.

Your neice's roommate's parents don't pay taxes to Colorado. Not sure how they fit in here.

ding ding ding

Exactly. All this hatred of illegal immigrants is just a modern form of the 19th century know-nothing party, and like them, people who this is a hot button know nothing about the issues.

Here, I fixed that for you. God forbid people be upset about people blatantly breaking the law, putting a strain on our education and healthcare systems and not only getting a pass but extra benefits as well.

You can't call them criminals when the only law they broke is "being here" I mean, come on. That's intellectual dishonesty at its worst.

They just plain aren't criminals in any fair sense of the word.

Really? I thought we were a nation of laws? If we have laws that sets out a path for becoming a legal immigrant to this country, what should we do with those that refuse to follow that law? Give them lollipops?

Let's not forget that entering the country illegally is usually not the only offense they commit. They usually steal/fake SSNs, driver's licenses, etc which are also illegal activities.

All you have to do to fix the "illegal" problem is to legalize the things that are normal human behavior. If we had a rational system without quotas, where you could get in so long as you were healthy and had work, I'd agree with you guys.

The problem isn't with our system of immigration so much as it is with rampant corruption in Mexico that has lead to a desperate state where Mexicans are willing to risk capture, death, and more to come to the USA so they can work for a piddling wage by our standards to send back to Mexico.

Just because it's a law doesn't make it right. Would you consider the laws during the Jim Crow era to be ethical and correct just because they were laws enacted by the racist state legislature? No of course not. In the case with the illegal immigrants, you have an obvious demand for cheap labor with an ample supply of workers. You have to fill that demand somehow, and since the people here don't want to provide an easier way to do that, you leave them no other choice but to do it illegally. As a result, you have many of the undesirables (those that commit violent crimes...etc.) also come because it is unregulated. You guys obviously don't know the devastation it would cost the US economy should everyone be deported. Taking out the 12 million estimated illegals is a huge chunk of the workforce.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

1. Introduce federal ID cards with biometric information encoded into it.

Provide the gov't with a way of tracking everyone - Police state

2. Develop system so employers can verify legal status of all applicants.

Shutting down businesses because people don't have "papers" - Police state

3. Shut down businesses that knowingly employ illegals, and confiscate all their assets.

See above - Police state

4. Create seasonal work permits for workers wanting to do farm work.

More of the same, "work permits" are a staple of a Police state

5. Accept that prices on some services will go up, since we'll have to pay a fair wage for said services.

Just economically bad for everyone

6. Any illegals here now with kids born here stay, barring a criminal record. Any new illegals that come here to have kids will be thrown out, along with their kids.

Giving up the concept that being born in the US confers citizenship, and you need to prove your parents were citizens? - Police state

7. Deport anyone caught that is illegal immediately. No hearings, no lawyers.

Give up the rule of law? Police state

Heavily militarize the border.

Martial law? Police state by defiition

8. Problem solved.

the problem of freedom? Yup. Solved.

And just how else do you propose to do it? Your fear of a police state pretty much forbids anything from being done about the illegal immigrant invasion. How bout we just allow armed gangs of citizens to roam the border, and shoot anything brown skinned that moves. Would that be better?

How about we legalize immigration? I said it above: If you're healthy, don't have a criminal record and have proof of a line of work and place to stay, you're allowed in. IF you lie about any of that, we kick you out (or some other punishment).

Then, *gasp* we don't have a police state, and all the problems of illegals "not paying their way" are 100% gone.

if you're worried about "culture dissolution" fight for a law that makes English the official language of the government. That way, 100% of government documents are in English, and you have to know it to get by -- plus schools will teach only English as a first language and will Americanize their children.

umm immigration is LEGAL. why do people like you always forget to use the ILLEGAL word? when somebody sneaks into our country breaking the law and stomping on the immigrants who are spending thousands to come here legally?

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

Very simple....we have thousands of non-violent criminals in our prison system that need to be "rehabilitated". To most bleeding hearts such as the ACLU that simply means having them sit around in circles singing Kumbaya and crying over the fact that they are addicts and have nothing to show for their wasted lives....FVCK THAT!!!

You wanna rehabilitate them?...put them to work. Have them build a wall across our border...not some flimsy bullsh!t chain link fence, I mean something like what the Soviets did in Germany, or what the Chinese did thousands of years ago.

A quality fence made of concrete, block, steel and razor wire can do wonders. We have technology to build bridges that span incredible distances....surely we can build a fence that is deep enough and tall enough that unless you are Spiderman or have the capability to burrow hundreds of feet underground, you are not getting in.

This is beneficial in several ways:
#1 cost...you don't have to pay a felon more than a few cents a day
#2 they will get rehabilitated
#3 they learn a trade that they can use anywhere there is construction going on...who knows, you may end up with a few good engineers out of it.

Yes, the Berlin wall...there was a shining monument to the human spirit.

it is not about spirit, it is about protecting what is ours....do you just let any stranger stroll right into your house and eat your food? Use your electricity? Your water? Your gas?....if you do let me know where you live...I'll be right over with a few friends and we'll have one hell of a party on your dime.

Your metaphor, once again doesn't work. The vast majority of these people are not "eating for free" and would be perfectly happy to pay their way if it was allowed to them.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: So
Those are related, but different problems. For centuries, people have sought to enter the united states to seek opportunity here. Relatively recently we imposed quotas -- caps on the number of people allowed to fulfill that dream. You're saying that they should be categorized with thieves and rapists because they came for a job and made up a number so they could get that job? Yes, if they forge a DRIVERS LICENSE they should be charged, but clearly, not all of them do. You're making a connection that isn't there. It's like saying we should cut the hands off of anyone guilty of trespassing because burglars are often also trespassers. It isn't justification, it just resembles it.

Rapists, no. Thieves, yes. I'm not even suggesting putting them in jail. Just deporting them back to their country of origin would be a start but we don't even do that with the truly criminal illegal immigrants - The ones with DUIs, rapes, grand larceny, drugs, etc. I can pull up story after story of people that have been killed by illegal immigrants with arrest records that were never deported when they were arrested the first time. Just recently, there was an execution style murder of three Newark students in a schoolyard by an illegal alien who has an arrest record dating back to 2000.

Why is it OK for other nations to have immigration laws but the USA is a police state for having them? Do you realize that illegal immigrants in Mexico can't even congregate to protest without getting arrested? Yet, we have massive protests supporting illegal immigration in American cities that are protected by our law enforcement and we are the police state?

I won't argue that the immigration policies need to be opened to allow more workers in but the USA can't take in the entire country of Mexico.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

Very simple....we have thousands of non-violent criminals in our prison system that need to be "rehabilitated". To most bleeding hearts such as the ACLU that simply means having them sit around in circles singing Kumbaya and crying over the fact that they are addicts and have nothing to show for their wasted lives....FVCK THAT!!!

You wanna rehabilitate them?...put them to work. Have them build a wall across our border...not some flimsy bullsh!t chain link fence, I mean something like what the Soviets did in Germany, or what the Chinese did thousands of years ago.

A quality fence made of concrete, block, steel and razor wire can do wonders. We have technology to build bridges that span incredible distances....surely we can build a fence that is deep enough and tall enough that unless you are Spiderman or have the capability to burrow hundreds of feet underground, you are not getting in.

This is beneficial in several ways:
#1 cost...you don't have to pay a felon more than a few cents a day
#2 they will get rehabilitated
#3 they learn a trade that they can use anywhere there is construction going on...who knows, you may end up with a few good engineers out of it.

Yes, the Berlin wall...there was a shining monument to the human spirit.

You do know the Berlin Wall was built to keep people in, not to keep people out.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Darthvoy

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: mugs
Illegals work and pay taxes to the state. As long as the federal government is content with ignoring them, the states are going to treat them like their other taxpayers.

Your neice's roommate's parents don't pay taxes to Colorado. Not sure how they fit in here.

ding ding ding

Exactly. All this hatred of illegal immigrants is just a modern form of the 19th century know-nothing party, and like them, people who this is a hot button know nothing about the issues.

Here, I fixed that for you. God forbid people be upset about people blatantly breaking the law, putting a strain on our education and healthcare systems and not only getting a pass but extra benefits as well.

You can't call them criminals when the only law they broke is "being here" I mean, come on. That's intellectual dishonesty at its worst.

They just plain aren't criminals in any fair sense of the word.

Really? I thought we were a nation of laws? If we have laws that sets out a path for becoming a legal immigrant to this country, what should we do with those that refuse to follow that law? Give them lollipops?

Let's not forget that entering the country illegally is usually not the only offense they commit. They usually steal/fake SSNs, driver's licenses, etc which are also illegal activities.

All you have to do to fix the "illegal" problem is to legalize the things that are normal human behavior. If we had a rational system without quotas, where you could get in so long as you were healthy and had work, I'd agree with you guys.

The problem isn't with our system of immigration so much as it is with rampant corruption in Mexico that has lead to a desperate state where Mexicans are willing to risk capture, death, and more to come to the USA so they can work for a piddling wage by our standards to send back to Mexico.

Just because it's a law doesn't make it right. Would you consider the laws during the Jim Crow era to be ethical and correct just because they were laws enacted by the racist state legislature? No of course not. In the case with the illegal immigrants, you have an obvious demand for cheap labor with an ample supply of workers. You have to fill that demand somehow, and since the people here don't want to provide an easier way to do that, you leave them no other choice but to do it illegally. As a result, you have many of the undesirables (those that commit violent crimes...etc.) also come because it is unregulated. You guys obviously don't know the devastation it would cost the US economy should everyone be deported. Taking out the 12 million estimated illegals is a huge chunk of the workforce.

so immigration laws are racist? is that the point you are trying to make? you need to decide either we are a sovereign nation of laws or not. its that simple.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

1. Introduce federal ID cards with biometric information encoded into it.

Provide the gov't with a way of tracking everyone - Police state

2. Develop system so employers can verify legal status of all applicants.

Shutting down businesses because people don't have "papers" - Police state

3. Shut down businesses that knowingly employ illegals, and confiscate all their assets.

See above - Police state

4. Create seasonal work permits for workers wanting to do farm work.

More of the same, "work permits" are a staple of a Police state

5. Accept that prices on some services will go up, since we'll have to pay a fair wage for said services.

Just economically bad for everyone

6. Any illegals here now with kids born here stay, barring a criminal record. Any new illegals that come here to have kids will be thrown out, along with their kids.

Giving up the concept that being born in the US confers citizenship, and you need to prove your parents were citizens? - Police state

7. Deport anyone caught that is illegal immediately. No hearings, no lawyers.

Give up the rule of law? Police state

Heavily militarize the border.

Martial law? Police state by defiition

8. Problem solved.

the problem of freedom? Yup. Solved.

And just how else do you propose to do it? Your fear of a police state pretty much forbids anything from being done about the illegal immigrant invasion. How bout we just allow armed gangs of citizens to roam the border, and shoot anything brown skinned that moves. Would that be better?

How about we legalize immigration? I said it above: If you're healthy, don't have a criminal record and have proof of a line of work and place to stay, you're allowed in. IF you lie about any of that, we kick you out (or some other punishment).

Then, *gasp* we don't have a police state, and all the problems of illegals "not paying their way" are 100% gone.

if you're worried about "culture dissolution" fight for a law that makes English the official language of the government. That way, 100% of government documents are in English, and you have to know it to get by -- plus schools will teach only English as a first language and will Americanize their children.

umm immigration is LEGAL. why do people like you always forget to use the ILLEGAL word? when somebody sneaks into our country breaking the law and stomping on the immigrants who are spending thousands to come here legally?

Maybe it's unjust to make it so hard to immigrate to this country? As Darthvoy said, just because it's a law doesn't make it right. There are unrealistically low quotas on immigrants, and they are breaking an untenable law.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

Very simple....we have thousands of non-violent criminals in our prison system that need to be "rehabilitated". To most bleeding hearts such as the ACLU that simply means having them sit around in circles singing Kumbaya and crying over the fact that they are addicts and have nothing to show for their wasted lives....FVCK THAT!!!

You wanna rehabilitate them?...put them to work. Have them build a wall across our border...not some flimsy bullsh!t chain link fence, I mean something like what the Soviets did in Germany, or what the Chinese did thousands of years ago.

A quality fence made of concrete, block, steel and razor wire can do wonders. We have technology to build bridges that span incredible distances....surely we can build a fence that is deep enough and tall enough that unless you are Spiderman or have the capability to burrow hundreds of feet underground, you are not getting in.

This is beneficial in several ways:
#1 cost...you don't have to pay a felon more than a few cents a day
#2 they will get rehabilitated
#3 they learn a trade that they can use anywhere there is construction going on...who knows, you may end up with a few good engineers out of it.

Yes, the Berlin wall...there was a shining monument to the human spirit.

The Berlin wall was built to keep people in. A fence at the Mexican border keeps illegal aliens, coyotes, drug-runners, terrorists, and others out.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Citrix


so immigration laws are racist? is that the point you are trying to make? you need to decide either we are a sovereign nation of laws or not. its that simple.

No, I think it was pretty clear he was saying that it's an UNJUST law, as the jim crow laws were, not that it's unjust in the same way....

Just because we have laws doesn't mean they are all right.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Darthvoy

Just because it's a law doesn't make it right.

Where do we draw the line? How many people do we let in before we stop them? 10 million? 100 million? Can we let every other human being on the planet move to our country, get free medical care and free education?

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Darthvoy
Just because it's a law doesn't make it right. Would you consider the laws during the Jim Crow era to be ethical and correct just because they were laws enacted by the racist state legislature? No of course not. In the case with the illegal immigrants, you have an obvious demand for cheap labor with an ample supply of workers. You have to fill that demand somehow, and since the people here don't want to provide an easier way to do that, you leave them no other choice but to do it illegally. As a result, you have many of the undesirables (those that commit violent crimes...etc.) also come because it is unregulated. You guys obviously don't know the devastation it would cost the US economy should everyone be deported. Taking out the 12 million estimated illegals is a huge chunk of the workforce.

Do you think that all 12-24 million estimated illegals are adults of working age? Hardly. Maybe half of them are and the rest are their kids.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

why cant we just ENFORCE THE FRICKING LAWS WE HAVE IN PLACE!!!


that and we MUST abolish the anchor baby laws that state ANYONE born on Us soil is an American citizen. its just stupid in todays world.

So you want to repeal the 14th amendment?

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Either everyone born here is a citizen or no one is. Then you open up the Pandora's box of the gov't deciding who can and can't be a citizen. With terms like "enemy combatant" floating around, that would make me a little nervous.

Good luck with that. :roll:

Hell yes. the 14th has been totally abused. it was written after the civil war to make blacks who were brought here in chains against their will American citizens. it was NOT meant for people from other countries to sneak into our country to give birth to jackpot or 14th amendment babies. if you don't see the difference then your head is someplace where it shouldn't be.

 

[maziwanka]

that is f-ing infuriating

 

[Turin39789]

I still don't understand why you are upset that an out of state student isn't recieving in state tuition.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

1. Introduce federal ID cards with biometric information encoded into it.

Provide the gov't with a way of tracking everyone - Police state

2. Develop system so employers can verify legal status of all applicants.

Shutting down businesses because people don't have "papers" - Police state

3. Shut down businesses that knowingly employ illegals, and confiscate all their assets.

See above - Police state

4. Create seasonal work permits for workers wanting to do farm work.

More of the same, "work permits" are a staple of a Police state

5. Accept that prices on some services will go up, since we'll have to pay a fair wage for said services.

Just economically bad for everyone

6. Any illegals here now with kids born here stay, barring a criminal record. Any new illegals that come here to have kids will be thrown out, along with their kids.

Giving up the concept that being born in the US confers citizenship, and you need to prove your parents were citizens? - Police state

7. Deport anyone caught that is illegal immediately. No hearings, no lawyers.

Give up the rule of law? Police state

Heavily militarize the border.

Martial law? Police state by defiition

8. Problem solved.

the problem of freedom? Yup. Solved.

wow. are there any laws that you define as a police state? the US has the most laxed immigration laws and enforcement of any country on this planet. are countries like UK, Ireland, south africa... police states? no they are not.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Turin39789
I still don't understand why you are upset that an out of state student isn't recieving in state tuition.

They aren't upset that an out state student isn't receiving in-state tuition as much as they are upset that an illegal immigrant student is receiving in-state tuition

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: mugs
Illegals work and pay taxes to the state. As long as the federal government is content with ignoring them, the states are going to treat them like their other taxpayers.

Your neice's roommate's parents don't pay taxes to Colorado. Not sure how they fit in here.

ding ding ding

Exactly. All this hatred of illegal immigrants is just a modern form of the 19th century know-nothing party, and like them, people who this is a hot button know nothing about the issues.

Here, I fixed that for you. God forbid people be upset about people blatantly breaking the law, putting a strain on our education and healthcare systems and not only getting a pass but extra benefits as well.

You can't call them criminals when the only law they broke is "being here" I mean, come on. That's intellectual dishonesty at its worst.

They just plain aren't criminals in any fair sense of the word.

All you have to do to fix the "illegal" problem is to legalize the things that are normal human behavior. If we had a rational system without quotas, where you could get in so long as you were healthy and had work, I'd agree with you guys.

Well said. I'm glad that there are others who feel like this regarding the "illegal" immigration issue. It gets depressing feeling that I am in the minority. My personal feeling is that these "illegal" immigrants give more to this society than they take out. This is the way it is now and the way it was in the past when this great country was built by immigrants. The above can be a point of contention since some economists will agree with me while others will disagree -- which is a sign that this is a complicated issue.

I also wonder about the people who use the "rule of law" argument. I wonder just exactly how law abiding they have been during their lives. Did they ever drive past the speeding limit? Did they ever illegally download mp3s? Did they ever drink/buy alcohol when they were under-aged? Did they ever shoplift or did stupid things (that are illegal) when they were young? Did they ever try pot?

And here they get all bent out of shape because someone came here to work so they could feed their families.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Zolty

Originally posted by: Savij
I would like to focus on the borders first. Status quo or let local/state handle the deporting of current illegals Can we at least stop the new ones from coming in? Fix the leak first or we'll be bailing water for a looong time.

If you can think of a cost effective solution with out inducing a police state then I would love to hear it.

1. Introduce federal ID cards with biometric information encoded into it.

Provide the gov't with a way of tracking everyone - Police state

2. Develop system so employers can verify legal status of all applicants.

Shutting down businesses because people don't have "papers" - Police state

3. Shut down businesses that knowingly employ illegals, and confiscate all their assets.

See above - Police state

4. Create seasonal work permits for workers wanting to do farm work.

More of the same, "work permits" are a staple of a Police state

5. Accept that prices on some services will go up, since we'll have to pay a fair wage for said services.

Just economically bad for everyone

6. Any illegals here now with kids born here stay, barring a criminal record. Any new illegals that come here to have kids will be thrown out, along with their kids.

Giving up the concept that being born in the US confers citizenship, and you need to prove your parents were citizens? - Police state

7. Deport anyone caught that is illegal immediately. No hearings, no lawyers.

Give up the rule of law? Police state

Heavily militarize the border.

Martial law? Police state by defiition

8. Problem solved.

the problem of freedom? Yup. Solved.

wow. are there any laws that you define as a police state? the US has the most laxed immigration laws and enforcement of any country on this planet. are countries like UK, Ireland, south africa... police states? no they are not.

So, you're saying you support having to present federal "papers" to get work, travel around the country or get medical treatment? Police states throughout history have used such mechanisms to subjugate the population.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: mugs
Illegals work and pay taxes to the state. As long as the federal government is content with ignoring them, the states are going to treat them like their other taxpayers.

Your neice's roommate's parents don't pay taxes to Colorado. Not sure how they fit in here.

ding ding ding

go ahead and totally sidestep the issue that the roommate is an illegal and should not even be in the country in the first place nor should she be getting better treatment than a kid whos parents that happen to be serving in the US armed forces.

First, I am all for illegals that are educating themselves. I don't think that should be up to a school to decide.

Second, I am pro-military, but there are way too many 'vets' claiming silver platters that really did nothing. There was a guy here that was discharged for whatever reason (rumor has it was due to a past felony) that went around bragging about Desert Storm, Sheild, etc. At a happy hour one night group of soldiers called him out. He was crying that they didn't beat his ass.

I don't feel just being in the military should entitle someone to anything that's not offered freely. IMHO then firefighters, EMTs, police, etc should all get the same treatment.

how does it feel to be subsidizing that cost?

 

[dmcowen674]

Wow



So many America haters in here.

They support illegals while scorning our very own sacrificing military.

Is this really WWJD?

Posts like this is why so many avoid posting in P&N. I know you are often the target of many personal attacks but when you post nonsense like this it's easy to understand.

Anandtech Senior Moderator
Red Dawn

 

[Darthvoy]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: Darthvoy

Just because it's a law doesn't make it right.

Where do we draw the line? How many people do we let in before we stop them? 10 million? 100 million? Can we let every other human being on the planet move to our country, get free medical care and free education?

I agree, but the problem we have is that we have to find a middle ground, but at the moment neither side willing to compromise one bit. At one point we have look at the situation without letting whatever emotion we may have about it and find a solution that will solve the problem, otherwise things will stay as they are and get worse.