so wrong. college instate tuition and illegals

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Rustler
Being an illegal means that you would not be a citizen of the USA or resident of the state that he/she is in so if they are getting instate tuition then they are recieving cheaper schooling. Arizona voted prop 300 which denies any public assistance to illegal aliens.

Different states define "resident" differently. If the university system follows the state definition for tax purposes, it's quite likely taht an immigrant living in the state meets the definition of a resident. (if the state excluded illegals from the definition, they might be able to operate there tax free)

Fern
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
1
81
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: rpanic
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: So

You can't call them criminals. We let a handful of people in legally every year any given country. To say they are criminals and of bad character because they are given no real opportunity is disingenuous at best. By that standard, if we let one person in every year, then everyone has an "opportunity"

would you call shoplifter a criminal? or how about a person who is caught many times trespassing is he a criminal?

I dont get how you can say we cant call them all criminals. did they or did they not violate our border and sneak into our country illegally? a simple yes or no answer will do.

You may wish me to fall into your false dichotomy, but I refuse. They are neither shoplifters nor are they simple trespassers. Their crime is circumventing paperwork and burecracy because it would unfairly exclude them. We should exclude real criminals, not simply foreigners because thy can't afford to hire a lawyer to get through the paperwork. To classify them as criminals is still disingenuous.

Ok I will come over break into your house eat your food and then crap on you floor. Same thing just a smaller scale.

No, it's not even close to the same thing.

Listen, if someone walks into a store and steals a pack of twinkies because they are homeless and have no money...it is still shoplifting. The circumstances of the reasoning for the crime are unfortunate...not necessarily bad or sad because this could be a situation of their own making....gambles too much, a wife beater who got booted out of the house, or a child molester let out of jail but cannot find a home. Him stealing the twinkies is still shoplifting...the law does not care about his circumstances...he is still a thief....and thief=criminal.

Their crime is circumventing paperwork and burecracy...there you said it yourself...they are committing a crime.

We should exclude real criminals, not simply foreigners because thy can't afford to hire a lawyer to get through the paperwork. and how exactly are you going to determine who is and is not a criminal?.....ask them?...yes, yes, I am quite sure they will be open and honest about their illegal activities.

We the people have spoken, through our representatives we established the rules and regulations that allow people to come here...legally....those that choose to try and bypass the system we have in place are criminals...you said it yourself.

The only alternative you have brought to the table is to relax the requirements to get into this country...sorry, but that is unacceptable. On top of that, ...it is still not going to curb the flow of illegals...there are a certain number of those that want to be here illegally...for whatever reason they want the anonymity. Perhaps they are running from someone, perhaps they are a criminal on the run from Mexican laws. So even IF you did relax the laws you will still have a certain percentage that will continue to cross over illegally because they want to...that also is unacceptable.


Like it or not the only solution to the problem is to build a wall, one that will keep out those that seek to enter this country illegally....for whatever reason....we have the means to make it cost effective....someone just needs to have the balls to implement it.








 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: FoBoT
yeah, it has been that way for a while

my #1 issue for the 2008 presidential election is illegal imigration/securing the borders. and for congress
My #1 issue is to sink a few hundred billion more (at least a trillion total) of taxpayer money into Iraq, beat the war drums for Iran, and focus more on terrar.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above qualifies as a trolling post and has no relationship to the thread content.

Please do NOT attempt to do so again.

Thank you

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
 

rpanic

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2006
1,896
7
81
Originally posted by: Wheezer
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: rpanic
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: So

You can't call them criminals. We let a handful of people in legally every year any given country. To say they are criminals and of bad character because they are given no real opportunity is disingenuous at best. By that standard, if we let one person in every year, then everyone has an "opportunity"

would you call shoplifter a criminal? or how about a person who is caught many times trespassing is he a criminal?

I dont get how you can say we cant call them all criminals. did they or did they not violate our border and sneak into our country illegally? a simple yes or no answer will do.

You may wish me to fall into your false dichotomy, but I refuse. They are neither shoplifters nor are they simple trespassers. Their crime is circumventing paperwork and burecracy because it would unfairly exclude them. We should exclude real criminals, not simply foreigners because thy can't afford to hire a lawyer to get through the paperwork. To classify them as criminals is still disingenuous.

Ok I will come over break into your house eat your food and then crap on you floor. Same thing just a smaller scale.

No, it's not even close to the same thing.

Listen, if someone walks into a store and steals a pack of twinkies because they are homeless and have no money...it is still shoplifting. The circumstances of the reasoning for the crime are unfortunate...not necessarily bad or sad because this could be a situation of their own making....gambles too much, a wife beater who got booted out of the house, or a child molester let out of jail but cannot find a home. Him stealing the twinkies is still shoplifting...the law does not care about his circumstances...he is still a thief....and thief=criminal.

Their crime is circumventing paperwork and burecracy...there you said it yourself...they are committing a crime.

We should exclude real criminals, not simply foreigners because thy can't afford to hire a lawyer to get through the paperwork. and how exactly are you going to determine who is and is not a criminal?.....ask them?...yes, yes, I am quite sure they will be open and honest about their illegal activities.

We the people have spoken, through our representatives we established the rules and regulations that allow people to come here...legally....those that choose to try and bypass the system we have in place are criminals...you said it yourself.

The only alternative you have brought to the table is to relax the requirements to get into this country...sorry, but that is unacceptable. On top of that, ...it is still not going to curb the flow of illegals...there are a certain number of those that want to be here illegally...for whatever reason they want the anonymity. Perhaps they are running from someone, perhaps they are a criminal on the run from Mexican laws. So even IF you did relax the laws you will still have a certain percentage that will continue to cross over illegally because they want to...that also is unacceptable.


Like it or not the only solution to the problem is to build a wall, one that will keep out those that seek to enter this country illegally....for whatever reason....we have the means to make it cost effective....someone just needs to have the balls to implement it.

Hey you left out part of my quote after I crap on the floor. ?And I forgot after I crap on your floor I will leave my baby so you can feed him and provide an education, because I know you will feel sorry for us.?

The southern boarder definitely needs to be controlled better. I don?t think a wall will do much; there is no danger in it. If they would just enforce the laws that were created after the last Amnesty (or before) we wouldn?t be having this problem. But they decided to stop enforcing them on employers in less than a year after the 80s amnesty was passed. Now why should they ever stop flooding over they know that eventually once one amnesty pass another one will come and another on and on

I sometimes think that the powers that be just want there to be a permanent second class to undermine the rest of us. Just look at how our public education system has fallen into ruin along with all sorts of other things, shit we can?t even fix something like roads faster than they fall apart. Immigration is just part of a bigger problem with the abuse of law in this country. The US has lost its BALLS to litigation and being PC. I guess all great empires crumble and rot from within.

 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,730
2
81
Originally posted by: Citrix
her roommate is from out of state with both parents in the air force serving in Germany, she has to pay out-of-state tuition, while the illegals get instate tuition at CU.


That is nothing; down here on the border it?s free!

Our two year and four year colleges are what are called a HIS?s or Hispanic Serving Institutions. Last year the four year college started a new program where the poor in the area get free tuition.

The college is using partly federal funds and partly by raising tuition rates for everyone else to pay for this. The majority of the poor down here are illegals and children of illegals but they are not the only ones that take advantage of this. There are also a lot of Mexican citizen students that come over daily to attend the college that get this free tuition as well.

 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Citrix
her roommate is from out of state with both parents in the air force serving in Germany, she has to pay out-of-state tuition, while the illegals get instate tuition at CU.


That is nothing; down here on the border it?s free!

Our two year and four year colleges are what are called a HIS?s or Hispanic Serving Institutions. Last year the four year college started a new program where the poor in the area get free tuition.

The college is using partly federal funds and partly by raising tuition rates for everyone else to pay for this. The majority of the poor down here are illegals and children of illegals but they are not the only ones that take advantage of this. There are also a lot of Mexican citizen students that come over daily to attend the college that get this free tuition as well.

Sorry they are not all "White Only Serving Institutions" anymore like the "good o'l dayz". Instead of addressing the issue in regards to "illegal immigrants in general" you seem to want to lump all Hispanics into one basket. Just in case you didn't know there have always been a large population of Hispanic peoples living in the South West and West of the US since before California or even Texas become a part of the Union.
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
By the way, if anyone cares, illegal immigrants DEFINATELY DON'T receive in-state tuition in Colorado, so the poster's premise is completely bogus.

A new Coloado law prohibits state colleges from providing in-state tuition to undocumented immigrants.
http://cbs4denver.com/educatio...l_story_197095922.html

Now its true that the CHILDREN of illegal immigrants who are US CITIZENS, can get in-state tuition, but that's simply common sense. Since potentially the children could be stuck working to pay off their tuition completely on their own. a different policy would actually create a situation where you are discriminating against someone simply because of who they happen to have as parents.

The current policy simply ensures all US citizens get the same rights.
 

rpanic

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2006
1,896
7
81
Originally posted by: Drift3r
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Citrix
her roommate is from out of state with both parents in the air force serving in Germany, she has to pay out-of-state tuition, while the illegals get instate tuition at CU.


That is nothing; down here on the border it?s free!

Our two year and four year colleges are what are called a HIS?s or Hispanic Serving Institutions. Last year the four year college started a new program where the poor in the area get free tuition.

The college is using partly federal funds and partly by raising tuition rates for everyone else to pay for this. The majority of the poor down here are illegals and children of illegals but they are not the only ones that take advantage of this. There are also a lot of Mexican citizen students that come over daily to attend the college that get this free tuition as well.

Sorry they are not all "White Only Serving Institutions" anymore like the "good o'l dayz". Instead of addressing the issue in regards to "illegal immigrants in general" you seem to want to lump all Hispanics into one basket. Just in case you didn't know there have always been a large population of Hispanic peoples living in the South West and West of the US since before California or even Texas become a part of the Union.

There have always been a lot of Hispanics here, and they do tend to all get put into one basket because they are the one coming illegally the most. It is hard to describe what is going on in the LA where I live, its like there is a change in the air and parts of the Hispanic community have become Pro-Mexico and Anti-American it wasn?t like this before. I have been with Hispanics that have told me jokingly (but they really aren?t joking) several times that they are taking the land back. And I also have friends that are of Hispanic that don?t like seeing Illegals flooding into there neighborhoods, and screwing the up public school systems that they have to use. I was looking at the forum for the town that my parents grew up in and were I lived for a short time, all I see are people talking about murders, gangs, and corrupt politicians (counsel said no whites permitted on city counsel) My dad still lives there and I look out from his house and see more Mexican flags than American ones some days. I don?t know why this is happening but it seems like it really got going sometime in the 80s.

 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: rpanic
Originally posted by: Drift3r
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Citrix
her roommate is from out of state with both parents in the air force serving in Germany, she has to pay out-of-state tuition, while the illegals get instate tuition at CU.


That is nothing; down here on the border it?s free!

Our two year and four year colleges are what are called a HIS?s or Hispanic Serving Institutions. Last year the four year college started a new program where the poor in the area get free tuition.

The college is using partly federal funds and partly by raising tuition rates for everyone else to pay for this. The majority of the poor down here are illegals and children of illegals but they are not the only ones that take advantage of this. There are also a lot of Mexican citizen students that come over daily to attend the college that get this free tuition as well.

Sorry they are not all "White Only Serving Institutions" anymore like the "good o'l dayz". Instead of addressing the issue in regards to "illegal immigrants in general" you seem to want to lump all Hispanics into one basket. Just in case you didn't know there have always been a large population of Hispanic peoples living in the South West and West of the US since before California or even Texas become a part of the Union.

There have always been a lot of Hispanics here, and they do tend to all get put into one basket because they are the one coming illegally the most. It is hard to describe what is going on in the LA where I live, its like there is a change in the air and parts of the Hispanic community have become Pro-Mexico and Anti-American it wasn?t like this before. I have been with Hispanics that have told me jokingly (but they really aren?t joking) several times that they are taking the land back. And I also have friends that are of Hispanic that don?t like seeing Illegals flooding into there neighborhoods, and screwing the up public school systems that they have to use. I was looking at the forum for the town that my parents grew up in and were I lived for a short time, all I see are people talking about murders, gangs, and corrupt politicians (counsel said no whites permitted on city counsel) My dad still lives there and I look out from his house and see more Mexican flags than American ones some days. I don?t know why this is happening but it seems like it really got going sometime in the 80s.

Maybe it is because of backlash against the ultra conservatives who voice their opinions on talk radio and faux noise? This country has a huge problem with immigration; we're restricting it. Theres a huge demand for visas, but we artificially limit the supply. I find it funny that the United States, a nation of immigrants, restricts immigration so viciously.
 

Darthvoy

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2004
1,826
1
0
Originally posted by: Aegeon
By the way, if anyone cares, illegal immigrants DEFINATELY DON'T receive in-state tuition in Colorado, so the poster's premise is completely bogus.

A new Coloado law prohibits state colleges from providing in-state tuition to undocumented immigrants.
http://cbs4denver.com/educatio...l_story_197095922.html

Now its true that the CHILDREN of illegal immigrants who are US CITIZENS, can get in-state tuition, but that's simply common sense. Since potentially the children could be stuck working to pay off their tuition completely on their own. a different policy would actually create a situation where you are discriminating against someone simply because of who they happen to have as parents.

The current policy simply ensures all US citizens get the same rights.

Interesting...makes you wonder if the student really is illegal. My question to the OP would be how does his niece know she is illegal? I certainly hope it was not automatically assumed simply because she is hispanic.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
My take is that if the state does not round up and deport Illegals, then the state should pay for their education. The state has to do it this way. The reason is that by not rounding up the illegals and deporting them according to the law, the state is allowing them to live there and is to blame. So the state is accepting responsibility for these illegals, and should be required to offer them in-state tuition.

Sometimes, it is the Federal Government that has to do the deporting through federal courts which are backlogged. So basically the state is forced to accept the illegals because there is just not enough police to do this kind of job. This is why the Military should be patrolling our border.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
Originally posted by: Aegeon
By the way, if anyone cares, illegal immigrants DEFINATELY DON'T receive in-state tuition in Colorado, so the poster's premise is completely bogus.

A new Coloado law prohibits state colleges from providing in-state tuition to undocumented immigrants.
http://cbs4denver.com/educatio...l_story_197095922.html

Now its true that the CHILDREN of illegal immigrants who are US CITIZENS, can get in-state tuition, but that's simply common sense. Since potentially the children could be stuck working to pay off their tuition completely on their own. a different policy would actually create a situation where you are discriminating against someone simply because of who they happen to have as parents.

The current policy simply ensures all US citizens get the same rights.

yess you are correct. House Bill 1023, passed in 2006, prohibits taxpayer money from benefiting illegal immigrants. however some universities' interpretation of the law differ. And there is a law that was passed about 50 years ago that says universities must look at a applicants parents legal status.
 

imported_Baloo

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2006
1,782
0
0
I don't get it. So out of state poeple pay out of state tuition, and in state residents pay in state tuition. Of course this is the way it is. State resident's taxes support the school, so they pay the lower rate. This is the way it should be. That the girl's parent's are in the military has nothing whatsoever to do with this, there is no valid reason to bring that into the discussion, residency is the deciding factor.
 

johnnobts

Golden Member
Jun 26, 2005
1,105
0
71
I hate when the libs say that we're demonizing and de-humaninzing illegal aliens for calling them what they are: illegal aliens (non-citizenry who are here illegally, either by illegally sneaking into the country, overstaying their visa, or through use of forged documents/identity theft).

Most conservatives I know don't resort to name-calling on this issue. Unlike most liberals who call us "bigots" for wanting to uphold our laws and protect our nation's sovereignty.



 

Darthvoy

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2004
1,826
1
0
Originally posted by: johnnobts
I hate when the libs say that we're demonizing and de-humaninzing illegal aliens for calling them what they are: illegal aliens (non-citizenry who are here illegally, either by illegally sneaking into the country, overstaying their visa, or through use of forged documents/identity theft).

Most conservatives I know don't resort to name-calling on this issue. Unlike most liberals who call us "bigots" for wanting to uphold our laws and protect our nation's sovereignty.

Funny that you say that and then begin your post with calling people "libs".
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: piasabird
My take is that if the state does not round up and deport Illegals, then the state should pay for their education. The state has to do it this way. The reason is that by not rounding up the illegals and deporting them according to the law, the state is allowing them to live there and is to blame. So the state is accepting responsibility for these illegals, and should be required to offer them in-state tuition.

Sometimes, it is the Federal Government that has to do the deporting through federal courts which are backlogged. So basically the state is forced to accept the illegals because there is just not enough police to do this kind of job. This is why the Military should be patrolling our border.

Great idea! And where might all of our military be?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,981
3,318
126
Originally posted by: Citrix
her roommate is from out of state with both parents in the air force serving in Germany, she has to pay out-of-state tuition, while the illegals get instate tuition at CU.

this really pisses me off. :|


Moved from Off Topic

Anandtech Senior Moderator
Red Dawn

First of all I take issue with that statement......
The illegals are still asked to prove they have resided note I said resided in the state for a certain period of time.

Note I didn`t say they had to show proof of citizenship!!

Also that`s your friends parent`s fault!
Being in the military as such they can name whatecer state they want as there state of record I believe its called...then your friends state of record was say california...your friend would be able to pay in state tuition!!

This is NOT an immigration issue as much as you would like to make it out to be!!

It is a residency issue legal or not.
Not Fedral immigration issue!!

Peace!!
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,679
11,022
136
Originally posted by: scott
Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

:thumbsup:
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Originally posted by: scott
Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

lol
Come on, do you really wish you could have 1907 back

the good ol days
 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
1,755
0
0
Your replies usually have more thought behind them.

I guess this is what happens when you have absolutely nothing to counter an opinion from 1907 -- which is even more relevant nowadays.

Must be the racisim in that statement that scares the crap out of you.
 

bbdub333

Senior member
Aug 21, 2007
684
0
0
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: scott
Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

lol
Come on, do you really wish you could have 1907 back

the good ol days

Isn't that what so many people argue for though? Going back to a time when "America was built on immigrants" and "we let everybody in"? That argument can't be used if you ignore the facts of how the policy was carried out. There was lots of discrimination on who actually got in. How many people arrived at Ellis Island, only to be sent right back where they came from?
 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
1,755
0
0
Here's another good one by Roosvelt: ?The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.?

I'd say we're getting pretty close
 

rpanic

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2006
1,896
7
81
Originally posted by: dna
Here's another good one by Roosvelt: ?The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.?

I'd say we're getting pretty close

:thumbsup:
 

postmortemIA

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2006
7,721
40
91
This is the same city as in where population of White Americans just fell bellow 50% for first time.

"34.7% of the population is Hispanic or Latino of any race." <-- does this give idead that majority of them are illegals? I mean it is tough to legally immigrate from these countries. Especially not in those numbers.