So.... good shoot?

[umbrella39]

Sheriff made out like we should not look into his history. As if his history doesn't show a pattern of behavior or actions that conclude with him shooting and killing someone. FL seems to be full of scumbags.

I wonder why this sheriff is running interference for this POS...

 

[Younigue]

He didn't go to prison for shooting over someone's head for annoying?

They would also wait for him in our driveway when they knew he was drinking and driving, or speeding or out smashing mailboxes with his buddies or shooting cats. He even shot my twin brother in the leg and saw no jail time because my brother wouldn't press charges. <--- that happened because he was mad at his wife and decided to grab my brother and go to Atlantic city for some gambling. The gun "unintentionally" discharged in the vehicle. The bullet went through my brother's leg and grazed my cousins testicle who was driving.

 

[whm1974]

Small town living. No, he didn't go to jail for that. The cops really didn't want to send him to jail for stealing a gun either because he only drove the car but it was out of their hands.

No offense, but it sounds like your brother was a real piece of shit.

 

[Younigue]

No offense, but it sounds like your brother was a real piece of shit.

Indeed! One of the most fun, funniest guys I've known in my life time but he was a disaster and a heartbreaker. Totalled many a vehicle in his time until the last one which killed him. He was drinking and hit a tree. He was 38.

 

[Younigue]

No offense, but it sounds like your brother was a real piece of shit.

But that's one of the reasons he was rarely arrested. He was well liked. Kind of worshipped in a way.

 

[Jhhnn]

And I'd agree with that, but a certain % will be self-entitled assholes because a gun gives you the last word. These types would probably like to get into any kind of stupid altercation and just wait, (here in FL) for the other side to act threatening so their "last word" is perfectly legal.

The ultimate "Fuck You!"

 

[OutHouse]

thats just cold blooded murder in any other state.

 

[Zorba]

Meh, both wrong. Pretty stupid actions on both. Why just come out and assault someone for yelling at your GF? Everyone is too angry about everything these days.

Yeah, in today's pussified republican states of America, why would any man come to the defense of his wife and children being yelled at by a nut job with a gun. Too bad the wife didn't shoot the fucker first.

It is absolutely insane that you can start a fight with someone, then when that fight goes south for you that you can then shoot them in "self defense." If you start the altercation, your right to self defense is over, IMHO.

 

[Lanyap]

Sheriff made out like we should not look into his history. As if his history doesn't show a pattern of behavior or actions that conclude with him shooting and killing someone. FL seems to be full of scumbags.

The sheriff is smart and also a lawyer so he knows the law side of it. He is following the law but I also believe he was making a point in this incident to make the state and lawmakers rethink stand your ground. Unfortunately the NRA owns Florida. Yes, there are a lot of scumbags here but there are a lot of good people also.

 

[Paladin3]

Repeatedly picking fights while armed like this guy reportedly did should be cause for the revocation of your carry permit. A carry permit is not a licence to go causing trouble. I don't think there is anything illegal about asking folks not to park in handicap parking, but if it escalates into an angry verbal argument that leads to someone getting violent he could be found at fault, IMO. All that husband did was push him away from his wife. Is that unreasonable?

Old man was perfectly within his rights to pull his weapons after the verbal argument was escalated to a possible assault by the husband, IMO, since the husband advance two steps towards him while he was down. But, when the husband saw the gun and RETREATED at least two steps back and half a step to the side I would argue that the threat was ended and shooting was no longer necessary.

At that point, IMO, shooting the retreating threat became illegal. I don't know where some of you got the BS idea that pulling a gun and then not shooting is a crime (brandishing.) If pulling your gun is enough to end the threat then you can't legally shoot. The Stand Your Ground law says you have no duty to retreat before using deadly force against someone who can be considered a REASONABLE threat to cause you death or great bodily harm, and that you can use deadly force to protect property. It doesn't give you the right to shoot someone retreating even if they did push you to the ground in a possible assault, especially when you are in a public parking lot picking verbal fights that instigated the possible assault.

For this to be a legal shooting we would have to believe the old man REASONABLY believed his life was in danger at the moment he shot. I do not.

 

[Zorba]

Good shoot? Well, legal shoot at least. While Florida needs to set a higher standard for the use of deadly force in the future, this is in bounds as the law is written now.

That being said, absolutely no tears will I shed for the dead thug. Don't assault people, don't get shot. Words to live by.

We do not allow the use of the derogatory, stealth-racist code word "thug" here.

Perknose
Forum Director

If that POS shooter hadn't of had a gun, there is zero chance he would be harassing people in the parking lot of a gas station. Once you go up to someone's family and start yelling at them, all bets are off. The husband should've just shot him because he was afraid for his wife's safety and all of you gun nuts would still say it was a good shoot, especially since the guy that STARTED the situation was armed. (Maybe not you since the shooter was white and the victim appears to be black.)

 

[bigboxes]

The sheriff is smart and also a lawyer so he knows the law side of it. He is following the law but I also believe he was making a point in this incident to make the state and lawmakers rethink stand your ground. Unfortunately the NRA owns Florida. Yes, there are a lot of scumbags here but there are a lot of good people also.

The NRA doesn't give a shit about the 2nd Amendment. They are just high paid lobbyists for the gun makers. Pure and simple. Don't get me wrong. I'm not for banning firearms. I'm definitely for restricting some people from owning them.

 

[Zorba]

You're arguing against your own position here. Given how stupid that position is, it's no wonder.

So the dead thug saw someone TALKING to a person sitting in a car and has enough fear that the person was being threatened to commit a violent assault to remove the threat and that's okay to your sad little bleeding heart. But the person that was assaulted, after having been attacked once and faced with a known enemy still moving forward is not entitled to take steps to remove the threat? Gotcha. Yep, no contradictions there.

I hereby promise that if I ever assault another person without provocation I will not complain whatever happens to me because it's my own damn fault for committing a violent crime. And I hereby absolve you of the need to shed tears on my behalf because even if I am gunned down my criminal ass had it coming for attacking another person who could rightly fear for their own life.

Again with the racist code word "thug."

Perknose
Forum Director

This is such bullshit. It wasn't talking if the husband heard it inside the store. Other customers in the video were clearly concerned by the situation, as well.

The shooter didn't back off when approached by the husband and then shoots him when he is several feet away and not approaching him.

You ammosexuals are so weak, you need a gun to feel strong and then you think that gives you a right to cuss out moms in front of their kids, then kill anyone that tries to stop you. If you can't take being pushed, DON'T CUSS OUT RANDOM PEOPLE.

 

[bigboxes]

Repeatedly picking fights while armed like this guy reportedly did should be cause for the revocation of your carry permit. A carry permit is not a licence to go causing trouble. I don't think there is anything illegal about asking folks not to park in handicap parking, but if it escalates into an angry verbal argument that leads to someone getting violent he could be found at fault, IMO. All that husband did was push him away from his wife. Is that unreasonable?

Old man was perfectly within his rights to pull his weapons after the verbal argument was escalated to a possible assault by the husband, IMO, since the husband advance two steps towards him while he was down. But, when the husband saw the gun and RETREATED at least two steps back and half a step to the side I would argue that the threat was ended and shooting was no longer necessary.

At that point, IMO, shooting the retreating threat became illegal. I don't know where some of you got the BS idea that pulling a gun and then not shooting is a crime (brandishing.) If pulling your gun is enough to end the threat then you can't legally shoot. The Stand Your Ground law says you don't have no duty to retreat before using deadly force, and that you can use deadly force to protect property. It doesn't give you the right to shoot someone retreating even if they did push you to the ground, especially when you are in a public parking lot picking fights.

For this to be a legal shooting we would have to believe the old man REASONABLY believed his life was in danger at the moment he shot. I do not.

Exactly.

 

[Zorba]

You should be required to have a reasonable fear for your life or grave bodily harm.

His wife was being aggressively verbally attacked by a large, armed man, that was making large hand movements within striking distance. If you could claim for a second that the shooter actually had a reasonable fear for his life, there is no way you could not say the same about the women.

Why does stand your ground only protect gun nuts? Shouldn't you be allowed to defend your family with whatever weapon you have? In this case his hands? But the POS shooter started the fight, he should have no more right to legal self defense.

It is crazy that in a lot of these cases out of FL, either party could've legally shot the other in "self-defense."

 

[umbrella39]

Agree. This guy was trying to protect his family from a crazed man with a gun, why does he have any duty to retreat when his GF and children are being assaulted?

 

[whm1974]

His wife was being aggressively verbally attacked by a large, armed man, that was making large hand movements within striking distance. If you could claim for a second that the shooter actually had a reasonable fear for his life, there is no way you could not say the same about the women.

For the record I don't agree with the shooter's actions at all. To begin with, he shouldn't have been harassing the woman in the first place. He also should have walked away when the husband approached him

 

[whm1974]

Agree. This guy was trying to protect his family from a crazed man with a gun, why does he have any duty to retreat when his GF and children are being assaulted?

He doesn't. The husband wasn't in the wrong, but the shooter sure was.

 

[bigboxes]

For the record I don't agree with the shooter's actions at all. To begin with, he shouldn't have been harassing the woman in the first place. He also should have walked away when the husband approached him

How could he "stand his ground" if he walked away? 🙄

 

[Paladin3]

This is such bullshit. It wasn't talking if the husband heard it inside the store. Other customers in the video were clearly concerned by the situation, as well.

The shooter didn't back off when approached by the husband and then shoots him when he is several feet away and not approaching him.

You gun pussy are so weak, you need a gun to feel strong and then you think that gives you a right to cuss out moms in front of their kids, then kill anyone that tries to stop you. If you can't take being pushed, DON'T CUSS OUT RANDOM PEOPLE.

I liked your post...right up until you brand every gun owner by the actions of a few bad apples. It's wrong to do so. 99.9%+ of guns in civilian hands are never used to hurt anyone.

 

[Zorba]

I liked your post...right up until you brand every gun owner by the actions of a few bad apples. It's wrong to do so. 99.9%+ of guns in civilian hands are never used to hurt anyone.

Not every gun owner is a gun pussy. I own two guns, FYI. Spidery, Gag and this shooter qualify, though. I'll edit it, to ammosexuals.

Any one that thinks this is an appropiate use of deadly force, though, probably qualifies. And I am sure it is more than 0.1% of gun owners.

 

[Paladin3]

I watched the video with the Sheriff's commentary and am not sure I agree with his argument. Criminally, the judge and jury would have to decide if it's reasonable that the old man felt threatened enough by the husband to use deadly force. If this case isn't prosecuted criminally there will at least be a huge civil suit which I see the family of the husband wining easily.

Even in Florida, juries don't like seeing a man in retreat getting shot.

 

[mindless1]

For this to be a legal shooting we would have to believe the old man REASONABLY believed his life was in danger at the moment he shot. I do not.

Here is where I take exception. No matter what I am saying, if I am merely saying something and someone comes up and slams me to the ground, I might shoot if I had a gun. Anyone so mentally unstable as to use (any) excuse for the first point of contact to be assault, has to be assumed an immediate and persisting threat.

What would make them less of a threat, is if I were able to get up and have a fair defense, but odds are that right after someone attacks you like this, their only hesitation in pummeling you further is if you don't get up, but if you don't get up then the last thing you may ever see is the kick to your head. Taking a step or two backwards is not at all a retreat, is what anyone might do right after they slam someone to the ground, before continuing to assault them. Clearly the man did not and was not going to retreat because his car was right there.

This is the unfortunate state of society today. While I *might* shoot the guy in the same situation, what I'd have done differently is not be in that situation in the first place, so yeah the shooter is guilty of manslaughter. I don't buy being guilty of murder because he didn't pull the gun out until after assaulted. You can't really claim that words justify (instigate) violence, without simultaneously throwing away our right to free speech, a right that is far more valuable than any one life.

 

[Paladin3]

Not every gun owner is a gun pussy. I own two guns, FYI. Spidery, Gag and this shooter qualify, though. I'll edit it, to ammosexuals.

Nah, don't edit it. Gun owners are okay to stereotype. It's not honest, but it's acceptable and expected behavior these days.

 

[umbrella39]

Not all of us are out looking for a fight. Originally got it because I worked in downtown Detroit midnights and didn't feel safe. That was many years ago. I keep one now to protect myself from the I'm a tough guy now because I have a gun assholes like this POS... People are free to paint me with the same broad brush if they so choose. I can understand why and I don't let it bother me...