Brovane
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2001
- 6,249
- 2,482
- 136
EU has given more aid to Ukraine than the US has. So yes the EU has stepped up despite a slow start.
EU has given more aid to Ukraine than the US has. So yes the EU has stepped up despite a slow start.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,093
- 45,075
- 136
biostud
Lifer
- Feb 27, 2003
- 19,812
- 6,899
- 136
Maybe learn your history before you post?
Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons, because Russia, US, UK and France would make sure they regained their sovereignty. That was the original deal, first Russia invaded Crimea and we did nothing and now US won't even back the invasion and war in Ukraine.
Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
The memoranda, signed in Patria Hall at the Budapest Convention Center with U.S. Ambassador Donald M. Blinken amongst others in attendance,[3] prohibited Russia, the United States, the United Kingdom and France from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.[4][5]
Russia breached the Budapest memorandum in 2014 with its annexation of Ukraine's Crimea.[6][7] As a response, the US, UK and France provided Ukraine with financial and military assistance, and imposed economic sanctions on Russia, while ruling out "any direct interventions to avoid a direct confrontation with Russia".
- Jul 11, 2001
- 40,501
- 9,988
- 136
One of these guys is deranged.
One of these guys is in over his head.
One of these guys is a genius, the other a dictator.
You make the call.
One of these guys is in over his head.
One of these guys is a genius, the other a dictator.
You make the call.
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Actually, I felt that way the first term too, but of course not with the intensity that I feel now.
I had hope with the guardrails the first term. Now, there are none. The republicans turning on Zelinsky confirms we are owned by Putin sad to watch America fall without a shot fired. I am glad I live in blue state. Will never visit red state again.
biostud
Lifer
- Feb 27, 2003
- 19,812
- 6,899
- 136
Maybe learn your history before you post?
Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons, because Russia, US, UK and France would make sure they regained their sovereignty. That was the original deal, first Russia invaded Crimea and we did nothing and now US won't even back the invasion and war in Ukraine.
Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
The memoranda, signed in Patria Hall at the Budapest Convention Center with U.S. Ambassador Donald M. Blinken amongst others in attendance,[3] prohibited Russia, the United States, the United Kingdom and France from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.[4][5]
Russia breached the Budapest memorandum in 2014 with its annexation of Ukraine's Crimea.[6][7] As a response, the US, UK and France provided Ukraine with financial and military assistance, and imposed economic sanctions on Russia, while ruling out "any direct interventions to avoid a direct confrontation with Russia".
Memorandums don’t mean much in geopolitics, my guy. Treaties, on the other hand, are legally binding, that’s why there’s a T in NATO.
Too bad Ukrainian politicians didn’t get the memo, or maybe they’re just too stupid to know the difference.
BTW remind me again what was Obama’s response when Putin annexed Crimea? Oh yeah, nothing because memorandums mean nothing.
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 35,490
- 9,711
- 136
The world order kept us all from dying in wars and nuclear fire.
You're going to enjoy breaking that.
So trying to stop a war is what causes more war now? That’s like saying putting out a fire makes the house burn faster.
If the world order is so good at preventing wars, why do we keep having them? Maybe it’s less of a peacekeeping club and more of a subscription service for endless conflict and Ukraine just got the premium package.
But hey, if sending unlimited weapons and cash with zero exit strategy is your idea of peace, then I’ve got some fire extinguishers to sell you that run on gasoline.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,093
- 45,075
- 136
How pissed are some Europeans? A Norwegian company that refuels navy ships is refusing to refuel American ships and calling on others to do the same.
RnR_au
Platinum Member
- Jun 6, 2021
- 2,560
- 5,972
- 136
Better late than never...
Sounds like Europe is finally getting serious...
Pavel suggests drawing lines...
... would this force the USA to pick a side?
Sounds like Europe is finally getting serious...
Pavel suggests drawing lines...
... would this force the USA to pick a side?
I have faith the current admin would not choose the side of freedom and democracy. Especially if Putin offered Trump a cut of the spoils.
cytg111
Lifer
- Mar 17, 2008
- 25,779
- 15,253
- 136
I dont think you understand. This was the deal YOU proposed, in return we sided with you post WW2 vs Russia
feralkid
Lifer
- Jan 28, 2002
- 16,840
- 4,941
- 136
trenchfoot
Lifer
- Aug 5, 2000
- 15,665
- 8,206
- 136
And there's 'ol Trump with that "I want PEACE" bullshit again. The only peace he wants is for Putin to back off on him and the only way Trump is going to do that is to have Zelenskyy sign off on a deal that gives Putin the Ukrainian land he's already taken and the time he needs to rearm and do another Special Military Operation the right way this time around, especially since Trump has all but cut off any more aid to Ukraine in the near future.
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trenchfoot
Lifer
- Aug 5, 2000
- 15,665
- 8,206
- 136
Successful comedians are also witty psychiatrists that can read a room well and respond accordingly. In this respect Zelenskyy porved under pressure that he is master craftsman of his trade.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,093
- 45,075
- 136
There is a somewhat low but probably now increasing chance of active European intervention in the war. Chatter on this has really picked up due to recent events.
This would almost certainly involve the presence of willing European forces in western Ukraine and, most importantly in Ukraine's skies.
Indus
Lifer
- May 11, 2002
- 15,587
- 10,862
- 136
You expect MAGA to go act as meatbags?
Hopefully it happens.. but I don't see it happening.
RnR_au
Platinum Member
- Jun 6, 2021
- 2,560
- 5,972
- 136
I don't see the USA contributing troops ever. The American domestic political optics are just not aligned right for this right now.
Trump has pulled the intel gathering planes from the Black Sea. This may make it harder for Ukraine depending on how their own Intel gathering is going.
Also seems that Russia is busy trying to 'normalising relations' by asking the US to resume direct flights and they have begun calling companies to come back to Russia.
I feel the Russians have become somewhat too confident in the last few days considering what is happening on the ground;
There are reports that the city center has already fallen to the Ukrainians. 👍
I imagine this scenario...
Trump leaves everyone... then the nordics and Germany gets nukes by themselves.
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