Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

[manly]

We could have shaved some time off (months at least) by starting language and technical training earlier than we did. Also by allowing contractors to work inside Ukraine sooner to help maintain their new fleet until they get more experience.

As we now know, it wasn't just F-16s. Time and again, the Biden admin (I blame Jake Sullivan) was worried about crossing Moscow's red lines and thus sparking a regional war that could draw in NATO via Article 5.* Like the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan in the spring of 2021, everything was slowly reactive compared to real-time needs. Turns out all those red lines weren't actual red lines; and while Ukraine has defended itself admirably, it never had any real chance of outright winning the war. Being handcuffed along the way didn't help.

Even if Trump wasn't a shill, I don't know how any negotiated deal doesn't result in recognizing de facto territorial losses in some form. If UA was forced to cede Crimea and Crimea only, would they accept? I don't think they would, but I think that is a minimum ask for Russia.

* To be fair, the rationale itself isn't wrong.

 

[trenchfoot]

NYTimes article, link paywall penetrating for 2 weeks, i.e. until Mar. 16, 2025:

Democrats Invite Fired Federal Workers to Trump’s Congressional Address

The move comes as lawmakers hear backlash from constituents over President Trump and Elon Musk’s efforts to slash federal spending and shrink the civil service. A European summit in London concludes with promises of aid to Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

View attachment 118658

So the USA has taken Putin's side, will probably not provide aid to Ukraine anymore, thus adding nicely to the pot that Trump and his billionaire buddies can fund those juicy tax cuts they're going to give themselves. Thanks to the smart working class folks who voted for Elon of whom is in the process of cutting out their legs from under them with major cuts in essential social services and guard rail agencies that they've come to rely on that will also fund Elon's and his fellow billionaire's raid on the treasury.

So how's it feel to be fucked over again seeing as if those of you who are under Trump's trance always seem to sacrifice your all for the nation's aristocrat plutocrats by handing over to them what rightfully belonged to you so gladly and with such patriotic fervor. Must feel so so good to fuck yourselves over like that. Why, I'll never know. Idiots.

I know I'm kidding myself when I ponder on the idea that Trump has a grand plan, a trick up his sleeve to get Putin to let go of his nut sack and come back over from the Dark Side but alas, it looks like Daddy Don Dingleberry is enjoying having Putin use his shriveled up stinky hairy testicles as a punching bag.

 

[K1052]

As we now know, it wasn't just F-16s. Time and again, the Biden admin (I blame Jake Sullivan) was worried about crossing Moscow's red lines and thus sparking a regional war that could draw in NATO via Article 5.* Like the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan in the spring of 2021, everything was slowly reactive compared to real-time needs. Turns out all those red lines weren't actual red lines; and while Ukraine has defended itself admirably, it never had any real chance of outright winning the war. Being handcuffed along the way didn't help.

Even if Trump wasn't a shill, I don't know how any negotiated deal doesn't result in recognizing de facto territorial losses in some form. If UA was forced to cede Crimea and Crimea only, would they accept? I don't think they would, but I think that is a minimum ask for Russia.

* To be fair, the rationale itself isn't wrong.

Escalation management was a failed strategy especially when things were withheld from Ukraine that the Russians were freely using on them (cruise missiles, cluster munitions, TBMs, etc).

I think whatever deal happens Ukraine is unlikely to officially recognized the seized territories. Unofficially there is not a lot of choice since Russia simply occupies them and Ukraine cannot dislodge them (at this time).

 

[trenchfoot]

Escalation management was a failed strategy especially when things were withheld from Ukraine that the Russians were freely using on them (cruise missiles, cluster munitions, TBMs, etc).

I think whatever deal happens Ukraine is unlikely to officially recognized the seized territories. Unofficially there is not a lot of choice since Russia simply occupies them and Ukraine cannot dislodge them (at this time).

Even if a deal was struck, as past history indicates, in Putin's mind, it's just a piece of paper or his worthless word that he will ignore and violate the moment he thinks it's right for him. Ambushing Zelenskyy the way Trump and mini-Trump did, it sure does look like they both were of the mind to make Zelenskyy appear to be the deal breaker. One could easily surmise that the mineral deal was crafted to do just that: Bait Zelenskyy in with the deal and then make it appear that he was the one that blew it all up. It's certainly what Trump's lackeys are proudly broadcasting all over the world at the moment and it gives Trump the perfect alibi to abandon Ukraine as an ally. The deal certainly wasn't something that Putin would've been happy with, nor would it be honored by him if the deal was struck. The deal was a trap. Nothing more, nothing less. Sadly, Zelenskyy had no option to refuse the deal because he would end up being the bad guy either way.

it's just disgusting how Trump's close relationship with Putin is determining the fate of the millions of Ukrainians who are at the moment fighting for their very lives. I hope one day Trump's close relationship with Putin will be exposed for what appears to be already known, just not verified yet.

 

[Kaido]

So uh, for those of us in IT...

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has ordered U.S. Cyber Command to halt offensive operations against Russia

If you need me, I'm retiring to open a food truck...

 

[eelw]

So uh, for those of us in IT...

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has ordered U.S. Cyber Command to halt offensive operations against Russia

If you need me, I'm retiring to open a food truck...

Yeah with the orange monkey in the WH, they have no need for cyber attacks. Well they can strictly concentrate on Dem attacks now

 

[trenchfoot]

So uh, for those of us in IT...

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has ordered U.S. Cyber Command to halt offensive operations against Russia

If you need me, I'm retiring to open a food truck...

I keep wondering about where the breaking point is at when Trump's trolls will abandon him for deserting them and the nation and switching sides to Putin, a product of the Soviet Union, and now the dictator of Russia, one of our enemies that go way back to cold war era of the 1950's. Why is it perfectly OK for the Republican party leadership to be allied with Russia and its party members do nothing, say nothing about it? Trump betrayed them all or is it that he only betrayed everyone else, who still see Putin's Russia as a sworn enemy of every free nation on planet earth, including the USA, but no more.

Why are they not confronting Putin's lapdog Trump when he is selling us all out, handing Putin virtual control of the nation through himself? When is enough, enough? Are they just going to sit this one out, watch our nation become allies of the worst dictatorships in the world because they can simply wish that it's not all true? That they can't believe that Trump, their guy, their hero, their role model of a man is betraying his country, the country he swore an oath to protect, the country he said was being run over by dog and cat eating criminal immigrants while he drags the nation out of a state of democracy and into the arms of an authoritarian dictator that he is mimicking here at home?

Trump said Biden was wrecking the nation with his liberal policies only to be the wrecker himself. Just look at everything's Trump's been up to. Is that how he says he will unite the nation? By having all of us live under the dictatorial rule of a madman? WTFU Trumpies, his hoax MAGA tour is actually his Fuck You All America I Got Mine Tour. As if you actually cared.

 

[manly]

I keep wondering about where the breaking point is at when Trump's trolls will abandon him for deserting them and the nation and switching sides to Putin, a product of the Soviet Union, and now the dictator of Russia, one of our enemies that go way back to cold war era of the 1950's. Why is it perfectly OK for the Republican party leadership to be allied with Russia and its party members do nothing, say nothing about it? Trump betrayed them all or is it that he only betrayed everyone else, who still see Putin's Russia as a sworn enemy of every free nation on planet earth, including the USA, but no more.

Why are they not confronting Putin's lapdog Trump when he is selling us all out, handing Putin virtual control of the nation through himself? When is enough, enough? Are they just going to sit this one out, watch our nation become allies of the worst dictatorships in the world because they can simply wish that it's not all true? That they can't believe that Trump, their guy, their hero, their role model of a man is betraying his country, the country he swore an oath to protect, the country he said was being run over by dog and cat eating criminal immigrants while he drags the nation out of a state of democracy and into the arms of an authoritarian dictator that he is mimicking here at home?

Trump said Biden was wrecking the nation with his liberal policies only to be the wrecker himself. Just look at everything's Trump's been up to. Is that how he says he will unite the nation? By having all of us live under the dictatorial rule of a madman? WTFU Trumpies, his hoax MAGA tour is actually his Fuck You All America I Got Mine Tour. As if you actually cared.

Presidential elections since Reagan have only proved that Americans have a healthy appetite for voting against their own self-interests. Most likely shit will have to get much worse before it can get better.

Sadly many, if not most, Americans DGAF about foreign policy or Europe's security against the Russian bear. So quite frankly, they don't care that Trump has betrayed Ukraine or that he wants to ethnic cleanse Palestinians out of the Gaza strip. Like rubes all around the world, many Americans rather like strongman politics (i.e. Teddy Roosevelt's big stock diplomacy).

Most Trump voters wouldn't be able to point out Ukraine on a world map, and they don't know enough to care why UA matters for the security of our allies in Europe.

 

[silverspaceship]

I think it would have happened anyway. But after these words, I think we should no longer count on the US.

In Washington, a Trump administration official said Mr. Trump would meet on Monday with his top national security aides, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, to consider, and possibly take action on, a range of policy options for Ukraine.

These include suspending or canceling American military aid to Ukraine, including the final shipments of ammunition and equipment authorized and paid for during the Biden administration, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.

Europe Races to Repair a Split Between the U.S. and Ukraine

European leaders pledge to assemble a “coalition of the willing” to develop a plan for ending Ukraine’s war with Russia, which they hope could win the backing of a skeptical President Trump.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Racan]

But after these words, I think we should no longer count on the US.

To me, it still doesn't look like the European leaders have realized that it's time to put on the big boy pants. They're still desperately hoping to get security guarantees from Trump, in which he clearly has absolutely zero interest.

 

[silverspaceship]

To me, it still doesn't look like the European leaders have realized that it's time to put on the big boy pants. They're still desperately hoping to get security guarantees from Trump, in which he clearly has absolutely zero interest.

Well, as of now they're starting to suspect something
I think that we (Ukraine) need to try to explain the situation to the European leaders as quickly as possible. It seems to me that now is the time to think about alternative security alliances besides NATO.

 

[trenchfoot]

It seems to me that abandoning Ukraine was in the works the day Trump couldn't get Zelenskyy to play quid pro quo with the Javelin missile deal back in 2019(?) Trump has a seething long memory for things like that. The only thing that could keep Trump sending aid to Ukraine is our vaunted military industrial complex's desire to keep the arms flowing.

 

[you2]

If UA was forced to cede Crimea and Crimea only, would they accept? I don't think they would, but I think that is a minimum ask for Russia.

* To be fair, the rationale itself isn't wrong.

I think if UA felt it has correct safe guard to end the war with adequate security guarantees they would be willing to give up Crimea - I think they care more about hte lives ot he UA people then the beach front property. HOWEVER currently the US is asking them to give up quite a bit for NOTHING but the hope of further assistance.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I keep wondering about where the breaking point is at when Trump's trolls will abandon him for deserting them and the nation and switching sides to Putin, a product of the Soviet Union, and now the dictator of Russia, one of our enemies that go way back to cold war era of the 1950's. Why is it perfectly OK for the Republican party leadership to be allied with Russia and its party members do nothing, say nothing about it? Trump betrayed them all or is it that he only betrayed everyone else, who still see Putin's Russia as a sworn enemy of every free nation on planet earth, including the USA, but no more.

Why are they not confronting Putin's lapdog Trump when he is selling us all out, handing Putin virtual control of the nation through himself? When is enough, enough? Are they just going to sit this one out, watch our nation become allies of the worst dictatorships in the world because they can simply wish that it's not all true? That they can't believe that Trump, their guy, their hero, their role model of a man is betraying his country, the country he swore an oath to protect, the country he said was being run over by dog and cat eating criminal immigrants while he drags the nation out of a state of democracy and into the arms of an authoritarian dictator that he is mimicking here at home?

Trump said Biden was wrecking the nation with his liberal policies only to be the wrecker himself. Just look at everything's Trump's been up to. Is that how he says he will unite the nation? By having all of us live under the dictatorial rule of a madman? WTFU Trumpies, his hoax MAGA tour is actually his Fuck You All America I Got Mine Tour. As if you actually cared.

Only when it affects them and they have no reasonable explanation as to how someone else is to blame. This usually comes from peer pressure (friends explaining how it was Trump's fault). If they're isolated or surrounded by like minded people, they will probably die knowing Trump was their savior.

 

[K1052]

HOWEVER currently the US is asking them to give up quite a bit for NOTHING but the hope of further assistance.

Yes, this is exactly what Trump proposes while also trying to rob them blind. Zelensky is correct to refuse.

I'm willing to bet Ukraine has already received the bulk of what Biden drew down after the election, at least in terms of munitions. The stuff USAI paid for is an open question but there is no way the Rs and Trump allocate future funds for military aid anyway Trump's leverage is actually pretty low which is why he's behaving so weakly threatening what's left that he didn't even give them.

 

[kage69]

Dipshit traitor and the drunk traitor just halted cyber operations against Russian hackers and spies. These assholes want to roll back America's defenses for Putin, and once again it's going to cost us in capability and in lives.

I can't imagine how shocked people are at certain three letter organizations. They dominated the enemy in that space, kept pressure on them, scared the shit out of most of them. Now these assets are being told to withdraw, in some cases are broken up, deactivated.

The gifts to Putin just keep coming. Founding Fathers, Jackson, Reagan, everyone, they're just spinning in their graves.

We need a hero. Be cool to see Trump do a reverse Fetterman. Have a stroke, recover then not be an asshole. Suddenly he's a Bernie.

 

[K1052]

Britain will supply Ukraine with 5,000 Martlet missiles.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

• Britain will provide 5,000 air-defence missiles to Ukraine, Starmer announced. Britain will spend £1.6bn (US$2bn) on the lightweight-multirole missiles, also known as Martlet, made by the armourer Thales. The missiles have a range of more than 6km (3.7 miles) and can be fired from a variety of platforms on land, sea, and air.

 

[zinfamous]

Dipshit traitor and the drunk traitor just halted cyber operations against Russian hackers and spies. These assholes want to roll back America's defenses for Putin, and once again it's going to cost us in capability and in lives.

I can't imagine how shocked people are at certain three letter organizations. They dominated the enemy in that space, kept pressure on them, scared the shit out of most of them. Now these assets are being told to withdraw, in some cases are broken up, deactivated.

The gifts to Putin just keep coming. Founding Fathers, Jackson, Reagan, everyone, they're just spinning in their graves.

We need a hero.

I feel like we now need Europe/new non-US NATO to protect us from Russia and ourselves.

Just what the magats cream their pants for!

 

[K1052]

German defense stocks are headed to the moon.

 

[K1052]

I feel like we now need Europe/new non-US NATO to protect us from Russia and ourselves.

Just what the magats cream their pants for!

A potential outcome here is that Trump gets what he wants and the Europeans dump vast amounts of money in to rearming and then no longer listen to what we and especially Putin have to say. About anything.

 

[zinfamous]

A potential outcome here is that Trump gets what he wants and the Europeans dump vast amounts of money in to rearming and then no longer listen to what we and especially Putin have to say. About anything.

With Musk's machinations, I may find myself working in Germany, CH, or Czechia within a year, anyway. So fuck this floating island of garbage overrun with MAGATs.

 

[silverspaceship]

I think if UA felt it has correct safe guard to end the war with adequate security guarantees they would be willing to give up Crimea - I think they care more about hte lives ot he UA people then the beach front property. HOWEVER currently the US is asking them to give up quite a bit for NOTHING but the hope of further assistance.

This is a rather tough question. To answer this question about Crimea or any other territories occupied by russia, we must first determine what we mean by “ceding/giving up Crimea.” Since 2014, Crimea has been occupied by russia, and since then, we (Ukraine) have had no control over it. De jure, we do not recognize Crimea as russian—Crimea is Ukraine. But de facto, Crimea is under russian occupation, and as of today, we have no way to de-occupy it from the russian invaders.

So, it is likely implied that we would have to cede de jure claims on Crimea and recognize it as part of russia. Well, if we are put under such conditions where we have no choice, then yes, we would probably have to cede Crimea. This is similar to what happened in 2014, when we had no other option and could not de facto de-occupy Crimea on our own; at that time, all the democratic world managed to do was to impose some sanctions on russia and sternly wag a finger at Putin. And now, we have this war.

What consequences will there be after the violation of the Helsinki Accords? (Rhetorical question)

 

[DZero]

With Musk's machinations, I may find myself working in Germany, CH, or Czechia within a year, anyway. So fuck this floating island of garbage overrun with MAGATs.

That if Trump decides to kidnap the professionals and not allow to flee.

 

[Brovane]

To me, it still doesn't look like the European leaders have realized that it's time to put on the big boy pants. They're still desperately hoping to get security guarantees from Trump, in which he clearly has absolutely zero interest.

What exactly are you seeing that is giving you that impression?

After hearing the President of Finland talk at the EU conference this last weekend I got the exact opposite impression.

 

[Brovane]

That if Trump decides to kidnap the professionals and not allow to flee.

You mean closing the border to US citizens trying to travel outside the US?