Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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MomentsofSanity

MomentsofSanity

Lifer
Jan 25, 2011
17,025
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iCyborg said:
Trump wants to end Ukraine war quickly and if the west gives some concessions to Russia we can have a "Peace for our time". I can see how Munich would be a natural choice for negotiations...
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That any of you think Russia is deserving of anything speaks volumes. They invade another country and the US thinks they can tell that other country to just give up everything taken and not do anything to protect themselves in the future.
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,120
45,128
136
iCyborg said:
Trump wants to end Ukraine war quickly and if the west gives some concessions to Russia we can have a "Peace for our time". I can see how Munich would be a natural choice for negotiations...
Click to expand...

Lol Zelensky literally said out loud that he will agree to nothing in Munich for this exact reason.
 
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K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,120
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Ultimately the choice facing the Europeans right now is to either rearm themselves heavily for a lot of money or arm the Ukrainians heavily for a little money. Option #2 is going to be very attractive.

The stuff they need from the EU can be purchased from EU companies (aircraft, missiles, air to ground weapons, air defense, etc) and the stuff that can be built in Ukraine much more cheaply (artillery, armored vehicles, drones, etc) they would be paid to do so.
 
Brainonska511

Brainonska511

Lifer
Dec 10, 2005
28,152
12,814
136
K1052 said:
Ultimately the choice facing the Europeans right now is to either rearm themselves heavily for a lot of money or arm the Ukrainians heavily for a little money. Option #2 is going to be very attractive.

The stuff they need from the EU can be purchased from EU companies (aircraft, missiles, air to ground weapons, air defense, etc) and the stuff that can be built in Ukraine much more cheaply (artillery, armored vehicles, drones, etc) they would be paid to do so.
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They might still pick a bit of option 1. Use option 2 to field test stuff and feed into option 1.
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,120
45,128
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Brainonska511 said:
They might still pick a bit of option 1. Use option 2 to field test stuff and feed into option 1.
Click to expand...

I think modestly yes. Performance of existing stuff sent to Ukraine is certainly already being studied for future development.

A lot of stuff Europe produces has never seen high intensity conventional warfare so I am sure there is a lot of room for feedback and tweaking. I do like how Ukrainian experience with the German PzH howitzers is basically "This is a super high performance machine but temperamental with finicky electronics" which is familiar to any owner of a German made car lol.
 
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Brainonska511

Brainonska511

Lifer
Dec 10, 2005
28,152
12,814
136
K1052 said:
I think modestly yes. Performance of existing stuff sent to Ukraine is certainly already being studied for future development.

A lot of stuff Europe produces has never seen high intensity conventional warfare so I am sure there is a lot of room for feedback and tweaking. I do like how Ukrainian experience with the German PzH howitzers is basically "This is a super high performance machine but temperamental with finicky electronics" which is familiar to any owner of a German made car lol.
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German over-engineering strikes again
 
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kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
30,943
46,440
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Excellent. Bravo.

bafkreiarvau2fnlic7d2uhpug37ws67vilbj4icf6jv4ekxibptjyldhji@jpeg
 
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dank69

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,135
32,531
136
K1052 said:
I think modestly yes. Performance of existing stuff sent to Ukraine is certainly already being studied for future development.

A lot of stuff Europe produces has never seen high intensity conventional warfare so I am sure there is a lot of room for feedback and tweaking. I do like how Ukrainian experience with the German PzH howitzers is basically "This is a super high performance machine but temperamental with finicky electronics" which is familiar to any owner of a German made car lol.
Click to expand...
Probably because Germans continually underestimate the average person's ability to find new ways to incorrectly use electronic devices.
 
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Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,526
10,005
136
kage69 said:
Excellent. Bravo.

bafkreiarvau2fnlic7d2uhpug37ws67vilbj4icf6jv4ekxibptjyldhji@jpeg
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If true, that would be exactly what I would expect. In fact, I don't expect Zelenskyy to sign or agree to anything anytime soon concerning Russia's war on Ukraine, there or with Trump and Putin. Trump is performative here, Putin has the negotiation scruples of a starving hyena.

It's quite possible that Zelenskyy wouldn't have authority to sign away 50% of Ukraine's mineral rights, but even if he did, he wouldn't.
 
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Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,526
10,005
136
dank69 said:
Probably because Germans continually underestimate the average person's ability to find new ways to incorrectly use electronic devices.
Click to expand...
The intelligent designer of electronics, computers, software (and cars) must anticipate the potential to misuse the product. Happens all too infrequently.
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,120
45,128
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Lol at 50%. And I strongly suspect the Ukrainian parliament would also have to approve any deal. Unless they are being offered Tomahawks with W-80s that not gonna work.
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,528
9,749
136
Brovane said:
In other news, Dumb Shit stuff the Russians are doing. Let's strike the Chernobyl sarcophagus.
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The new cover for Chernobyl was meant to last 100 years or so.
Built with long term durability in mind.

Now Russia has blown a hole into what was supposed to be an air pressure controlled environment.
Russia does not give two shits about containing nuclear fallout. They revel in spreading death and destruction across the continent. More will follow.
 
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feralkid

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,843
4,941
136
Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said Friday that Moscow was not behind the attack.

“Most likely, this is yet another provocation,” Peskov told reporters. “This is exactly the kind of thing the Kyiv regime is known for and sometimes does not hesitate to do.”

Yeah...

Nice try Dmitry.
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,528
9,749
136
Re: The war of attrition. Russia is not the only side in this conflict. Not the only country at risk of collapsing under pressure.
We must not pretend that the Ukrainians can suffer indefinitely as we force them to fight the Eastern Bloc alone.

Three years and only Russia has received military action from an ally.
How many more years. How many more wars will NATO fail to stop the enemy advance?

Tensions erupt in Ukraine as Zelenskyy sanctions former leader Poroshenko​

 
Brovane

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,288
2,508
136
Jaskalas said:
Re: The war of attrition. Russia is not the only side in this conflict. Not the only country at risk of collapsing under pressure.
We must not pretend that the Ukrainians can suffer indefinitely as we force them to fight the Eastern Bloc alone.

Three years and only Russia has received military action from an ally.
How many more years. How many more wars will NATO fail to stop the enemy advance?

Tensions erupt in Ukraine as Zelenskyy sanctions former leader Poroshenko​

Click to expand...

Zelensky isn't asking for NATO troops and Ukraine isn't part of NATO. He just needs the equipment and ammunition.
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,528
9,749
136
Brovane said:
Zelensky isn't asking for NATO troops and Ukraine isn't part of NATO. He just needs the equipment and ammunition.
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A veritable stockpile of rare minerals, and Europe's bread basket.
Physical reach into Moldova, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, and Poland.
Most of whom will welcome a master's return and forge military bond on Poland's flank.

Ukraine is EVERYTHING to Europe's future holding Russia at a distance and seeing their lives kept out of future conflict.
Feed the hungering beast of imperialism and give spark to an inferno sweeping further nations that stand divided or alone.

This war is already a test for how we would respond.
Without the United States, with parts of Europe divided. The Eastern Bloc would out produce the fragmented remains.
For NATO to exist, Russia must be defeated here and now. Militarily.
 
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D

DZero

Golden Member
Jun 20, 2024
1,446
528
96
Jaskalas said:
A veritable stockpile of rare minerals, and Europe's bread basket.
Physical reach into Moldova, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, and Poland.
Most of whom will welcome a master's return and forge military bond on Poland's flank.

Ukraine is EVERYTHING to Europe's future holding Russia at a distance and seeing their lives kept out of future conflict.
Feed the hungering beast of imperialism and give spark to an inferno sweeping further nations that stand divided or alone.

This war is already a test for how we would respond.
Without the United States, with parts of Europe divided. The Eastern Bloc would out produce the fragmented remains.
For NATO to exist, Russia must be defeated here and now. Militarily.
Click to expand...
The issue is that US don't want NATO anymore... so yeah... is US and Russia (and allies) vs the rest of the world....
 
GodisanAtheist

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
8,189
9,507
136
Europeans better get militarizing ASAP. Nothing bad has ever come of that...

Is there a protocol to actually kick the US out of NATO?

Just rip the bandaid off and get it over with.
 
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