Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

[hal2kilo]

Meanwhile the Swedes are in high production for the

View attachment 75312

That looks eerily familiar. Like one of our first handheld anti aircraft missiles. Can't remember it's name.

 

[hal2kilo]

not that the abrams isn't an awesome tank, but the US position was that it's so much more complicated than other tanks - operations, logistics, and maintenance - that it's difficult to deploy. and training and deployment certainly won't happen immediately.

but even if it's just to get germany off its ass with Leopard exports, that's 31 M1s well spent for democracy in Ukraine.

assuming the M1s do get deployed next year (what i read as far as how long training and logistics setup would take), i have no doubt they will be highly effective

They keep talking about maintenance of the turbine and that is only takes jet fuel. If my memory serves, it's like the opposite of the selling point for the turbine. Low maintenance, multi fuel capable. Probably spending all the time changing/ cleaning air filters.

 

[Perknose]

not that the abrams isn't an awesome tank, but the US position was that it's so much more complicated than other tanks - operations, logistics, and maintenance - that it's difficult to deploy. and training and deployment certainly won't happen immediately.

but even if it's just to get germany off its ass with Leopard exports, that's 31 M1s well spent for democracy in Ukraine.

assuming the M1s do get deployed next year (what i read as far as how long training and logistics setup would take), i have no doubt they will be highly effective

It'll be interesting to see where and when the training takes place. It wouldn't be good to have the tanks sitting in Ukraine before the crews are ready to go. Sitting, they'd be prime targets for the Rooskies to score a propaganda coup or two. Even if they never engage, they will have done their job, which was to get the Germans onboard.

Biden's decision, reportedly against the wishes of the Pentagon, gave Germany the cover they felt they needed, and now the damn has broken.

But Putin still hopes to win a war of attrition. It's best Ukraine takes back what they can, while they can. I feel the longer the war goes on, the more it could eventually favor Russia. Russia may look like a joke now, and they sure have earned that, but . . . they're bigger and their closer.

And . . .

Unlike some others, I don't see Putin being overthrown anytime soon. He's the Czar. I don't think we in the West fully appreciate how fully craven subordination, fatalism and a seemingly bottomless tolerance of deep suffering is etched right into the warp and woof in the psyche of Russians. Russia is . . . different. Remember, for one, unlike the rest of Europe, Russia did not experience the Renaissance.

 

[Perknose]

not that the abrams isn't an awesome tank, but the US position was that it's so much more complicated than other tanks - operations, logistics, and maintenance - that it's difficult to deploy. and training and deployment certainly won't happen immediately.

but even if it's just to get germany off its ass with Leopard exports, that's 31 M1s well spent for democracy in Ukraine.

assuming the M1s do get deployed next year (what i read as far as how long training and logistics setup would take), i have no doubt they will be highly effective

They keep talking about maintenance of the turbine and that is only takes jet fuel. If my memory serves, it's like the opposite of the selling point for the turbine. Low maintenance, multi fuel capable. Probably spending all the time changing/ cleaning air filters.

Yeah, the "jet fuel only" argument was a canard. From up here in the peanut gallery, I'm guessing one of the Pentagon's main concerns was the electronics and accompanying hardware in the tanks falling into Russian hands.

 

[Jaskalas]

I'm not sure how grateful Xi is going to be for Putin for waking the west up about it's limited munitions production capacity.

A ground war in Europe will be NOTHING like an air and naval battle in the Pacific.
Not sure it would even have the same nations, aside from the US.
Artillery shells won't be bothering Xi.

 

[rommelrommel]

A ground war in Europe will be NOTHING like an air and naval battle in the Pacific.
Not sure it would even have the same nations, aside from the US.
Artillery shells won't be bothering Xi.

True, but the lessons about munition usage apply to naval and air engagements too. That recent paper on defeating an invasion of Taiwan said the same thing. Many, many more missiles would be more gooder.

 

[K1052]

A ground war in Europe will be NOTHING like an air and naval battle in the Pacific.
Not sure it would even have the same nations, aside from the US.
Artillery shells won't be bothering Xi.

If Xi wants to come ashore in Taiwan 155mm shells and GMLRS are going to have something to say about that. But bigger picture the Pentagon has now recognized that stocks of all sorts of munitions are probably too low and that production takes too long. They are moving to increase capacity and issue multiyear contracts for all sorts of stuff.

 

[Jaskalas]

Unlike some others, I don't see Putin being overthrown anytime soon. He's the Czar. I don't think we in the West fully appreciate how fully craven subordination, fatalism and a seemingly bottomless tolerance of deep suffering is etched right into the warp and woof in the psyche of Russians. Russia is . . . different. Remember, for one, unlike the rest of Europe, Russia did not experience the Renaissance.

Russia is a larger North Korea.
It is extremely disappointing how this has turned out.
We offered them a western life style, we showered them in access and western money. Kid gloves into what should have been a budding partnership.

It wasn't enough. Putin just had to try and rebuild the USSR on the bones of his former allies. He saw a future full of death and chose that over coexistence. His nation is a bunch of slaves, and if they replace him... it would be due to a failure to achieve their goal, not because of how horrible genocidal ambition is. Their future leaders will almost certainly carry on the mission, we must maintain a united front to block them from killing any more people. If not, we must act to make them pay for the death and suffering they cause.

 

[Indus]

Wouldn't it be interesting if when WW3 breaks out that Germany would be part of "The Allies"?

I think Russia would love there to be a WW3 but I don't see any countries jumping up and down, itching to be part of the Russian side in this..

At the moment it's pretty much:

1. Russians on 1 side

2. The Allies on the other side

And The Neutrals who care about only themselves and want to play both sides and make money/ steal wealth and treasures like Switzerland, Germany, China and India.

If I'm wrong on this assessment, let me know..

Maybe Trumpistan/ Tucker Carlson Fuckheadistan but that isn't a real country with military might that can effect the battlefield in Ukraine at the moment is it?

 

[Ajay]

Geez, getting tanks was like pulling a molar using tweezers! It's a start.

So, at this rate, the prevailing prediction of 2-3 more years of war is looking accurate. UA needs needs more additional armored battalions than, uh, one. I hope up arming the UAF goes a bit better than this. If I were Zelensky - I'd be disheartened (though he won't show it). Many more Ukrainians are going to die.

I know we need a strong and secure NATO to fold the Ukraine into, instead of the tattered one we had, but this is tough to watch.

 

[Indus]

I know we need a strong and secure NATO to fold the Ukraine into, instead of the tattered one we had, but this is tough to watch.

Had?

We are in tatters with Hungary and Turkey stopping us from actually doing what we want.

I honestly think NATO's politics are slowly showing it's problems and it's going to be replaced by a NATO 2.0 without Hungary and Turkey and instead adding Finland and Sweden and allowing Ukraine to join.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

not that the abrams isn't an awesome tank, but the US position was that it's so much more complicated than other tanks - operations, logistics, and maintenance - that it's difficult to deploy. and training and deployment certainly won't happen immediately.

but even if it's just to get germany off its ass with Leopard exports, that's 31 M1s well spent for democracy in Ukraine.

assuming the M1s do get deployed next year (what i read as far as how long training and logistics setup would take), i have no doubt they will be highly effective

They could have the m1s idling in the back charging cellphones and I'd be happy because one way or another, Ukraine's got some armor to deploy.

 

[Leeea]

They could have the m1s idling in the back charging cellphones and I'd be happy because one way or another, Ukraine's got some armor to deploy.

The more recent versions of the m1 with the APU are actually quite fuel efficient when idling. Probably as efficient as the average generator for the same task.

 

[cytg111]

It unfortunately sounds like it's going to take months for those to arrive, but that may give Russia pause if it thinks it can launch a renewed assault in the spring. Russian tanks already have trouble cracking Ukranian defenses; they might not stand a chance against M1 Abrams tanks.

Thats not the point, the point is the go-ahead for every other nation to flood Ukraine with Leopards…

 

[cytg111]

Had?

We are in tatters with Hungary and Turkey stopping us from actually doing what we want.

I honestly think NATO's politics are slowly showing it's problems and it's going to be replaced by a NATO 2.0 without Hungary and Turkey and instead adding Finland and Sweden and allowing Ukraine to join.

This 100%. Fuck Erdogan and Orban right in the ass with huge non lubricated objects specifically cause they’re both homophobic assholes. Take pictures.
Fuck Hungary right out of the EU as well, let em have a taste of the other side.

 

[Ajay]

Yeah, the "jet fuel only" argument was a canard. From up here in the peanut gallery, I'm guessing one of the Pentagon's main concerns was the electronics and accompanying hardware in the tanks falling into Russian hands.

Yeah, that a great one. US Army to congress - and it can run on any grade of petrol, diesel, aviation fuel or kerosene.

US Army to Ukraine - it needs special jet fuel.

 

[K1052]

Now that Germany has relented Ukraine can likely lay its hands on hundreds of other tanks like Leopard 1A5 and Challenger 1s with minimal fuss.

 

[RnR_au]

This 100%. Fuck Erdogan and Orban right in the ass with huge non lubricated objects specifically cause they’re both homophobic assholes.

Its just politics for Erdogan...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1618366639929724929

 

[cytg111]

Its just politics for Erdogan...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1618366639929724929

I know it is, Paludan is a certified retard, a useful moron for Erdogan to manipulate and engineer. Fuck him.

 

[Zorba]

They keep talking about maintenance of the turbine and that is only takes jet fuel. If my memory serves, it's like the opposite of the selling point for the turbine. Low maintenance, multi fuel capable. Probably spending all the time changing/ cleaning air filters.

Turbines can burn different fuels, but not on the fly, they have to have fuel nozzles changed and returned. It also has to be relatively highly refined fuel, your can't just dump bunker oil in them.

Both Royal Caribbean and Union Pacific went to turbines at one point and then very quickly went back to diesels. The huge benefit of turbines is the power density. I worked on an engine that was about the size of a standard V8, only a few hundred pounds, and could output 3,000 shaft HP. They are expensive to maintain though and require continuous inspections.

 

[Ajay]

Had?

We are in tatters with Hungary and Turkey stopping us from actually doing what we want.

I honestly think NATO's politics are slowly showing it's problems and it's going to be replaced by a NATO 2.0 without Hungary and Turkey and instead adding Finland and Sweden and allowing Ukraine to join.

No, we really need Turkey in NATO. Just look at a map. We'll have to put up with some BS posturing and BS demands for a bit. I think he’ll cave after some apologies are said b/4 the cameras and a few deals slide under the table.

There's a chance that with a weakened Russia, Syria and Iraq - he fancies himself occupying a larger stage of his own. That would be a loss for us in the southern flank. If I don’t think it will play out that way.

Hungary - I don’t like puzzles with a missing piece . They can step out - they’ll be surrounded by NATO countries anyway, so they get the benefits of the alliance without being in it. Orbán is an autocrat, but he’s a bigger problem for the EU than NATO I think.

Germany's is the biggest problem for NATO. They are in a pretty confused state right now. They were in their happy place before Russia wrecked it. Good economy, cheap gas and oil from Russia. Great banking relationships. A small military budget, mainly there so they could sell their gear to others. And those savings were available to spend on public infrastructure and benefits. What’s not to like (me - blows raspberries).

 

[Ajay]

Now that Germany has relented Ukraine can likely lay its hands on hundreds of other tanks like Leopard 1A5 and Challenger 1s with minimal fuss.

I hope that’s the case and that deals are being negotiated as we speak. That would cheer me up (lol, not that it’s about me).

 

[RnR_au]

I know it is, Paludan is a certified retard, a useful moron for Erdogan to manipulate and engineer. Fuck him.

You misunderstand. Paludan was influenced by a Swedish journalist with heavy Russian links;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1618187472286134274

Erdogan is just taking advantage of the situation.

 

[Bitek]

Wouldn't it be interesting if when WW3 breaks out that Germany would be part of "The Allies"?

Must be a strange experience for them. No wonder they are struggling with how to do it

 

[Bitek]

Yeah, that a great one. US Army to congress - and it can run on any grade of petrol, diesel, aviation fuel or kerosene.

US Army to Ukraine - it needs special jet fuel.

The whole bluster about the Abrams just makes it sound like a terrible vehicle, the engineers incompetent, and the army are fools for commissioning it.

The centerpiece of the armored land forces is a glorified base queen that constantly breaks, is picky on fuel and ammo, and is difficult to repair?
Does General Dynamics print that in the brochure?

I'm sure half is true, and half is BS, but WTF.