Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
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Just drive them around a bit for the cameras to make the Germans feel better.

Though I do suspect Ukraine's tank repair aptitude is a lot higher than most countries we export M1s to. With Poland in the midst of adopting them it shouldn't be too terribly hard to stand up the required infrastructure for heavier repairs.
Have them build up the maintenance yards and infrastructure, then send them on a fiew "field tests"
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
12,020
5,688
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If they're following F-16s with HARMs Russian radar operators would have some tough decisions to make.
Still, wild weasel missions are very intense for the pilots. Combat losses from small errors are a problem. Accurate Intel and PGM standoff missiles are safer. They usually require higher than ideal altitudes - but I’m sure the Israelis have brought the USAF up to speed on some of the tactics they use to avoid detection. Terrain isn’t ideal in the Ukrainian 'bread basket', but the Ukrainian pilots know their own geography well.

The most difficult problem in air combat warfare is loss of pilots. Nothing beats A-10 in CAS; but from a long term solution perspective, F-16s are the ticket to ride. That, and we have have a shed ton of them.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
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Still, wild weasel missions are very intense for the pilots. Combat losses from small errors are a problem. Accurate Intel and PGM standoff missiles are safer. They usually require higher than ideal altitudes - but I’m sure the Israelis have brought the USAF up to speed on some of the tactics they use to avoid detection. Terrain isn’t ideal in the Ukrainian 'bread basket', but the Ukrainian pilots know their own geography well.
They seem to be doing it from Mig-29s fairly successfully so I think they've largely got it down by now.

The most difficult problem in air combat warfare is loss of pilots. Nothing beats A-10 in CAS; but from a long term solution perspective, F-16s are the ticket to ride. That, and we have have a shed ton of them.
Likely going to be easier to transition their Su-25 pilots to A-10s than F-16s. Mig-29 guys shouldn't have a problem getting used to the F-16 quickly though.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,656
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They are doing a lot of low flying helicopter and jet runs where they fly 10 feet above the highways to get to the targets unnoticed. I think A10 would be fine for their needs. Though not worried about DU ammunition pollution since this is agricultural land, not desert.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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Simply no. There is no possible framework in which this is ever possibly true. Just plain simple logic will guide you to the truth here, and it takes mere seconds for an educated, functioning mind to reach this conclusion. One open to the vast realities and complications of the world, that is.

It appears that you are not such a person, if you continue to pursue this clearly propagandistic, wholly indefensible theory of "why Russia deserves to invade their neighbors without cause."

There is simply no argument in defense of Russian genocide. None.

Stop making it.

Also, who is this "We"? You are not American.
He might be my new coworker. New kid just going on and on with nothing but Russian propaganda.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
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Talking about 30-50 M1s.

So if that's accurate and the pledge of 100 Leopard 2s from non-German nations plus maybe 15-20 from Bundeswehr stocks (as is being discussed), and maybe another 30ish from German industry in the near term you're talking about around a couple hundred units all in. Plus maybe 150-200 more Leopard 1A5s if Rheinmetall and KMW are granted export licenses.

 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
23,583
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I can't think of a better place for them to find their way to Valhalla than service in Ukraine.

There is that. Idk. Contested airspace with sooo many MANPADS, not fun. I know the hog is burly but it's not just Dushkas and AKs this time. There won't be Eagles in the background keeping watch either. I think I'd feel better about it if Ukraine wasn't so damn flat.

But if the Ukrainians are OK with the risk, I'd say do it. Give them the new optics and targeting pods for sure. Su-25 ground crew and pilots shouldn't have too hard of a problem I would like to think. They continue to surprise us, and the Russians; our trust and faith in them is not misplaced.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
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There is that. Idk. Contested airspace with sooo many MANPADS, not fun. I know the hog is burly but it's not just Dushkas and AKs this time. There won't be Eagles in the background keeping watch either. I think I'd feel better about it if Ukraine wasn't so damn flat.

But if the Ukrainians are OK with the risk, I'd say do it. Give them the new optics and targeting pods for sure. Su-25 ground crew and pilots shouldn't have too hard of a problem I would like to think. They continue to surprise us, and the Russians; our trust and faith in them is not misplaced.
Given how Russia has had to concentrate their forces and how soft their armor is at this point, they could make an absolute fuckery of the situation if they get specific opportunities.

Knowing ukr they'll figure out a way to fire the damn things ballistically by flying upside down or some shit.
 

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