Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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Ajay

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
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K1052 said:
If they're following F-16s with HARMs Russian radar operators would have some tough decisions to make.
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Still, wild weasel missions are very intense for the pilots. Combat losses from small errors are a problem. Accurate Intel and PGM standoff missiles are safer. They usually require higher than ideal altitudes - but I’m sure the Israelis have brought the USAF up to speed on some of the tactics they use to avoid detection. Terrain isn’t ideal in the Ukrainian 'bread basket', but the Ukrainian pilots know their own geography well.

The most difficult problem in air combat warfare is loss of pilots. Nothing beats A-10 in CAS; but from a long term solution perspective, F-16s are the ticket to ride. That, and we have have a shed ton of them.
 
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K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Ajay said:
Still, wild weasel missions are very intense for the pilots. Combat losses from small errors are a problem. Accurate Intel and PGM standoff missiles are safer. They usually require higher than ideal altitudes - but I’m sure the Israelis have brought the USAF up to speed on some of the tactics they use to avoid detection. Terrain isn’t ideal in the Ukrainian 'bread basket', but the Ukrainian pilots know their own geography well.
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They seem to be doing it from Mig-29s fairly successfully so I think they've largely got it down by now.

The most difficult problem in air combat warfare is loss of pilots. Nothing beats A-10 in CAS; but from a long term solution perspective, F-16s are the ticket to ride. That, and we have have a shed ton of them.
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Likely going to be easier to transition their Su-25 pilots to A-10s than F-16s. Mig-29 guys shouldn't have a problem getting used to the F-16 quickly though.
 
senseamp

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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They are doing a lot of low flying helicopter and jet runs where they fly 10 feet above the highways to get to the targets unnoticed. I think A10 would be fine for their needs. Though not worried about DU ammunition pollution since this is agricultural land, not desert.
 
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Zorba

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,519
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zinfamous said:
Simply no. There is no possible framework in which this is ever possibly true. Just plain simple logic will guide you to the truth here, and it takes mere seconds for an educated, functioning mind to reach this conclusion. One open to the vast realities and complications of the world, that is.

It appears that you are not such a person, if you continue to pursue this clearly propagandistic, wholly indefensible theory of "why Russia deserves to invade their neighbors without cause."

There is simply no argument in defense of Russian genocide. None.

Stop making it.

Also, who is this "We"? You are not American.
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He might be my new coworker. New kid just going on and on with nothing but Russian propaganda.
 
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Zorba

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,519
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fskimospy said:
I think he’s American, he’s just a tankie.

When the US invades somewhere it’s the US’s fault. When Russia invaded somewhere it’s…the US’s fault. Russia has no agency and can’t be responsible for anything it does.
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Don't forget, all Ukrainian elections since the "overthrow" were rigged by America too.
 
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K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Talking about 30-50 M1s.

So if that's accurate and the pledge of 100 Leopard 2s from non-German nations plus maybe 15-20 from Bundeswehr stocks (as is being discussed), and maybe another 30ish from German industry in the near term you're talking about around a couple hundred units all in. Plus maybe 150-200 more Leopard 1A5s if Rheinmetall and KMW are granted export licenses.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617935043489599489
 
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Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
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K1052 said:
They seem to be doing it from Mig-29s fairly successfully so I think they've largely got it down by now.



Likely going to be easier to transition their Su-25 pilots to A-10s than F-16s. Mig-29 guys shouldn't have a problem getting used to the F-16 quickly though.
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Are we still making A10’s?
 
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kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,209
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[DHT]Osiris said:
I can't think of a better place for them to find their way to Valhalla than service in Ukraine.
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There is that. Idk. Contested airspace with sooo many MANPADS, not fun. I know the hog is burly but it's not just Dushkas and AKs this time. There won't be Eagles in the background keeping watch either. I think I'd feel better about it if Ukraine wasn't so damn flat.

But if the Ukrainians are OK with the risk, I'd say do it. Give them the new optics and targeting pods for sure. Su-25 ground crew and pilots shouldn't have too hard of a problem I would like to think. They continue to surprise us, and the Russians; our trust and faith in them is not misplaced.
 
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D

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
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kage69 said:
There is that. Idk. Contested airspace with sooo many MANPADS, not fun. I know the hog is burly but it's not just Dushkas and AKs this time. There won't be Eagles in the background keeping watch either. I think I'd feel better about it if Ukraine wasn't so damn flat.

But if the Ukrainians are OK with the risk, I'd say do it. Give them the new optics and targeting pods for sure. Su-25 ground crew and pilots shouldn't have too hard of a problem I would like to think. They continue to surprise us, and the Russians; our trust and faith in them is not misplaced.
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Given how Russia has had to concentrate their forces and how soft their armor is at this point, they could make an absolute fuckery of the situation if they get specific opportunities.

Knowing ukr they'll figure out a way to fire the damn things ballistically by flying upside down or some shit.
 
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K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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I doubt the cannon would see much use. SBDs, Mavericks, and APKWS on the other hand...
 
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K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,021
32,993
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Sounds like the M1s will be ordered from General Dynamics instead of coming from US stocks. Or maybe GD will buy back some hulls and refit them for export. Administration using the USAI funding pot. Either way not likely to see happy Abrams tooling around through the Ukrainian countryside real soon.

I don't mind as long as it lets German made armor flow into the country almost immediately.
 
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Ajay

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,429
7,847
136
K1052 said:
They seem to be doing it from Mig-29s fairly successfully so I think they've largely got it down by now.
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Against S-300s and 400s? That is quite a trick on mostly flat terrain. Hats off to those guys. Love to know how they do it.
 
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