Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

[rommelrommel]

Yeah, these countries are really undermining their credibility in the defence industry. Germany mostly, but Switzerland and some others too.

 

[K1052]

If GLSDB shows up on the battlefield with no warning its going to get really spicy really quick for every significant ammo/fuel dump, command post, repair yard, barracks site, etc within range. Just like with GMLRS earlier this year.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1615804428635803685

 

[Ajay]

Ukraine MOD providing Germany with a bit of help. Video.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1615613082742423553

 

[RnR_au]

Yeah, these countries are really undermining their credibility in the defence industry. Germany mostly, but Switzerland and some others too.

I have a feeling the South Koreans will be busy for a long while. I did a read of their K2's... wow (as a non-military lay person perhaps I'm easily impressed ). And Poland will have their own factory.

 

[Ajay]

I have a feeling the South Koreans will be busy for a long while. I did a read of their K2's... wow (as a non-military lay person perhaps I'm easily impressed ). And Poland will have their own factory.

So long as Germany didn’t require Rheinmetall to insert some restriction in the manufacturing license deal with SK (On the main gun).

 

[K1052]

We should just start installing APUs on older M1A2s (some already have them IIRC) and start shipping them to Ukraine. Enough with this nonsense.

 

[Leeea]

We should just start installing APUs on older M1A2s (some already have them IIRC) and start shipping them to Ukraine. Enough with this nonsense.

This.

An APU is all that is needed to make a m1 series tank much more fuel efficient.

 

[woolfe9998]

Putin and Russia's military are so damn barbaric.

Opinion: Even by Russia's standards, this was a particularly repulsive attack | CNN

As Russia's invasion of Ukraine approaches the one year mark, the bombing of a residential building in Dnipro -- with a missile usually reserved for sinking ships -- should not be seen as simply another red line crossed by the Kremlin, writes Michael Bociurkiw.

www.cnn.com

Article is discussing various Russian atrocities, mainly the targetting of shopping centers and apartment buildings with cruise missiles.

He's arguing that Biden needs to declare Russia a "state sponsor of terrorism" which would evidently tighten the sanctions noose even further as “they would extend further to any other companies around the world doing business with Russian entities.”

I'm inclined to agree at this point.

 

[RnR_au]

So long as Germany didn’t require Rheinmetall to insert some restriction in the manufacturing license deal with SK (On the main gun).

I don't believe there is an issue with the main gun. Its a South Korean design;

The CN08 is a 120 mm 55-caliber smoothbore gun produced by Hyundai WIA. It is incorrectly known as the licensed production of the Rheinmetall Rh-120 L/55, but it was indigenously developed by the Agency for Defense Development and WIA (now Hyundai WIA) from 2003 to 2008 for the XK2 development project started in 1995.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CN08_120_mm_gun

 

[feralkid]

Agreed. Although I'm thinking at his advanced age, maybe, just maybe, he's reflected on all of the misdeeds, failed plots and transgressions of his past and is now attempting to redeem himself in the eyes of history.

Nahhhhhh, just who the hell am I kidding. The guy's ego is probably as legendary and flatulent as Trump's.

Agreed, although...

 

[Roger Wilco]

Somebody please send the tanks ffs

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1615863979590717440

 

[itsmydamnation]

so once again the brits are leading the way

i said it ages ago, as much as i dont like Boris , i felt he dragged france and germany kicking and screaming into arming Ukraine. Its never a good look when the country who left the EU puts more skin in the game for the EU then the key nations of the EU.

 

[RnR_au]

Maybe the Leopards are not that good...

 

[itsmydamnation]

Maybe the Leopards are not that good...

leopards are perfectly good tanks, like all tanks alot of it can come down to how you use them. need mech inf support.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Nobody talking about this?


Ukrainian interior minister, top officials killed in helicopter crash

The Washington Post|13 hours ago
KYIV, Ukraine — Ukrainian Interior Minister Denis Monastyrsky and other top ministry officials were killed Wednesday morning when their government helicopter crashed near a kindergarten just ...


.

 

[Jaskalas]

Germany is reportedly willing to deliver Leopard 2 main battle tanks to Ukraine on the condition that the US will provide its M1 Abrams main battle tank.

Our Abrams are deemed by the Pentagon as simply a bad fit for the Ukrainian army. Something about it being a logistical nightmare to support and maintain. They apparently have no other objection, but that is not something that is likely to be overcome in order for it to be sent over. This was public knowledge before Germany's boast.... making it completely hollow as they know we are not sending Abrams.

 

[K1052]

Our Abrams are deemed by the Pentagon as simply a bad fit for the Ukrainian army. Something about it being a logistical nightmare to support and maintain. They apparently have no other objection, but that is not something that is likely to be overcome in order for it to be sent over. This was public knowledge before Germany's boast.... making it completely hollow as they know we are not sending Abrams.

The worst of it is likely fuel consumption. The M1s guzzle fuel even at idle which is why M1A2 SEPv3 adds an APU. The Army simply didn't use to care. Export customers have also made this modification.

M1s are more sophisticated than say a T-72 but they aren't alien technology that Ukrainians could not be taught to comprehend and operate competently.

 

[rommelrommel]

It’s really the fuel requirements and consumption, runs on some grade of av gas and without the APU burns an absurd amount whether at full throttle or sitting.

 

[IronWing]

The Abrams are not crew maintainable or repairable. The US Army went to a system of highly trained career technicians to service the tanks as it proved impossible to train the crews to do it.

 

[brycejones]

It’s really the fuel requirements and consumption, runs on some grade of av gas and without the APU burns an absurd amount whether at full throttle or sitting.

The turbine in the M1 can run on many different fuels. The Army just uses the same fuel for many systems to simplify logistics.

 

[Brovane]

The Abrams are not crew maintainable or repairable. The US Army went to a system of highly trained career technicians to service the tanks as it proved impossible to train the crews to do it.

I am also sure it will not help that Ukraine would potentially have 3 different versions of western MBT to deal with to keep in service from a maintenance perspective, Challenger 2, Leopard 2 and Abrams. This would be in addition to all the Russian MBT's they have in service. Overall Germany isn't be real helpful right now. I am hoping that someone from the Biden administration has a frank but private conversation with them to stop being assholes and just send the MBT's. The Leopard 2 makes sense. The other thing to do would be to send the Abrams and tell Germany their Leopards are no longer needed.

 

[fskimospy]

I am also sure it will not help that Ukraine would potentially have 3 different versions of western MBT to deal with to keep in service from a maintenance perspective, Challenger 2, Leopard 2 and Abrams. This would be in addition to all the Russian MBT's they have in service. Overall Germany isn't be real helpful right now. I am hoping that someone from the Biden administration has a frank but private conversation with them to stop being assholes and just send the MBT's. The Leopard 2 makes sense. The other thing to do would be to send the Abrams and tell Germany their Leopards are no longer needed.

I wonder what extent of political bullshit/cover Germany is looking for.

Meaning - are they looking for the US to send M1s to give them political cover to authorize a lot of Leopards or are they looking for excuses to not send them?

 

[Brovane]

I wonder what extent of political bullshit/cover Germany is looking for.

Meaning - are they looking for the US to send M1s to give them political cover to authorize a lot of Leopards or are they looking for excuses to not send them?

I think at this point they are just looking for excuses not to send them. I think Germany is worried that Ukraine will use the MBT's to start seriously pushing Russia out of Ukraine including Donbas and Crimea and the Russians will go ape-shit nuclear and Berlin would be a target. Germany probably hopes that there can be negotiated settlement and they are willing to sacrifice chunks of Ukraine to keep the Russians happy.

 

[Dave_5k]

Germany probably hopes that there can be negotiated settlement and they are willing to sacrifice chunks of Ukraine to keep the Russians happy.

Germany was perfectly happy with letting Russia steal Ukrainian land the last two times, as long as German companies and politicians could immediately get back to business as usual with Russia. If Russia had just grabbed a chunk of the Donbas and stopped there, the Germans would have done it a third time in 2022 as well ~ still to be seen if this time is really different now for Germany, but probably not. I fully expect Germany to push to immediately remove sanctions the second that Russia declares the invasion "complete" as long as the Russians agree to stop bombing Ukrainian civilians and civilian infrastructure - even if there still is an active line of conflict.

 

[Indus]

I think at this point they are just looking for excuses not to send them. I think Germany is worried that Ukraine will use the MBT's to start seriously pushing Russia out of Ukraine including Donbas and Crimea and the Russians will go ape-shit nuclear and Berlin would be a target. Germany probably hopes that there can be negotiated settlement and they are willing to sacrifice chunks of Ukraine to keep the Russians happy.

Chicken shit apologists or downright Russkie agents.