rommelrommel
Diamond Member
- Dec 7, 2002
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Yeah, these countries are really undermining their credibility in the defence industry. Germany mostly, but Switzerland and some others too.
I have a feeling the South Koreans will be busy for a long while. I did a read of their K2's... wow (as a non-military lay person perhaps I'm easily impressed ). And Poland will have their own factory.Yeah, these countries are really undermining their credibility in the defence industry. Germany mostly, but Switzerland and some others too.
So long as Germany didn’t require Rheinmetall to insert some restriction in the manufacturing license deal with SK (On the main gun).I have a feeling the South Koreans will be busy for a long while. I did a read of their K2's... wow (as a non-military lay person perhaps I'm easily impressed ). And Poland will have their own factory.
This.We should just start installing APUs on older M1A2s (some already have them IIRC) and start shipping them to Ukraine. Enough with this nonsense.
I don't believe there is an issue with the main gun. Its a South Korean design;So long as Germany didn’t require Rheinmetall to insert some restriction in the manufacturing license deal with SK (On the main gun).
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CN08_120_mm_gunThe CN08 is a 120 mm 55-caliber smoothbore gun produced by Hyundai WIA. It is incorrectly known as the licensed production of the Rheinmetall Rh-120 L/55, but it was indigenously developed by the Agency for Defense Development and WIA (now Hyundai WIA) from 2003 to 2008 for the XK2 development project started in 1995.
Agreed. Although I'm thinking at his advanced age, maybe, just maybe, he's reflected on all of the misdeeds, failed plots and transgressions of his past and is now attempting to redeem himself in the eyes of history.
Nahhhhhh, just who the hell am I kidding. The guy's ego is probably as legendary and flatulent as Trump's.
leopards are perfectly good tanks, like all tanks alot of it can come down to how you use them. need mech inf support.Maybe the Leopards are not that good...
Germany is reportedly willing to deliver Leopard 2 main battle tanks to Ukraine on the condition that the US will provide its M1 Abrams main battle tank.
Our Abrams are deemed by the Pentagon as simply a bad fit for the Ukrainian army. Something about it being a logistical nightmare to support and maintain. They apparently have no other objection, but that is not something that is likely to be overcome in order for it to be sent over. This was public knowledge before Germany's boast.... making it completely hollow as they know we are not sending Abrams.
The turbine in the M1 can run on many different fuels. The Army just uses the same fuel for many systems to simplify logistics.It’s really the fuel requirements and consumption, runs on some grade of av gas and without the APU burns an absurd amount whether at full throttle or sitting.
The Abrams are not crew maintainable or repairable. The US Army went to a system of highly trained career technicians to service the tanks as it proved impossible to train the crews to do it.
I wonder what extent of political bullshit/cover Germany is looking for.I am also sure it will not help that Ukraine would potentially have 3 different versions of western MBT to deal with to keep in service from a maintenance perspective, Challenger 2, Leopard 2 and Abrams. This would be in addition to all the Russian MBT's they have in service. Overall Germany isn't be real helpful right now. I am hoping that someone from the Biden administration has a frank but private conversation with them to stop being assholes and just send the MBT's. The Leopard 2 makes sense. The other thing to do would be to send the Abrams and tell Germany their Leopards are no longer needed.
I wonder what extent of political bullshit/cover Germany is looking for.
Meaning - are they looking for the US to send M1s to give them political cover to authorize a lot of Leopards or are they looking for excuses to not send them?
Germany was perfectly happy with letting Russia steal Ukrainian land the last two times, as long as German companies and politicians could immediately get back to business as usual with Russia. If Russia had just grabbed a chunk of the Donbas and stopped there, the Germans would have done it a third time in 2022 as well ~ still to be seen if this time is really different now for Germany, but probably not. I fully expect Germany to push to immediately remove sanctions the second that Russia declares the invasion "complete" as long as the Russians agree to stop bombing Ukrainian civilians and civilian infrastructure - even if there still is an active line of conflict.Germany probably hopes that there can be negotiated settlement and they are willing to sacrifice chunks of Ukraine to keep the Russians happy.
I think at this point they are just looking for excuses not to send them. I think Germany is worried that Ukraine will use the MBT's to start seriously pushing Russia out of Ukraine including Donbas and Crimea and the Russians will go ape-shit nuclear and Berlin would be a target. Germany probably hopes that there can be negotiated settlement and they are willing to sacrifice chunks of Ukraine to keep the Russians happy.