Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

[Perknose]

With Poland's history . . .

Is exactly why they don't want to cross Russia flagrantly if there's any way that can be avoided. All the stalwart hawks here with their ideas for escalation standing an ocean plus away forget geography . . . and history.

We have been blessed not to suffer actual war on our soil since the War of Northern Aggression. (I keed.) Poland not so much.

And, please, I more than get the impulse to come to the Ukrainian's aid more directly, as with a no-fly zone. But anything that risks p

Wtf

Sometimes the line between subtly and stupidity is gossamer thin.

 

[K1052]

Neither does Lavrov.

Ultimately it is Putin who decides sure but less senior people aren't going to be able to offer larger concessions if Putin indeed decides to make them. He'll use people closer to him like Lavrov.

 

[cytg111]

Sorry, I forgot. You're "european," youse folks won WWI and WWII all by yourselves...and you kept the Soviets at bay without any outside help.

Mmmm... So, 404, no self interest found?

I mean, in that alternate timeline, you imagine what powers exists?
- Nazi Europe
- Communist USSR or Mafia Russia
- Communist China
- "Democratic" America.

Something like that?

 

[Ajay]

Sorry, I forgot. You're "european," youse folks won WWI and WWII all by yourselves...and you kept the Soviets at bay without any outside help.

I don't really want to see American sailors/soldiers/pilots die defending Ukraine after our 20+ years of war in the Middle East. Too much blood and Treasure for practically nothing. That said, I do not enjoy watching the innocent Ukrainian people die in brutal attacks and finding their homes being turned into a piles of ash. If we can do something, we should. Heavy weapons by the boatload - YES. Ex-military volunteers - YES. (we should pay them when they get back, or their families if they don't). If much smarter people than me can figure out how to do it - a no fly zone so that Putin can't cut Ukraine off from the west. We could lose some people if we do this, but I think Putin has enough brains to avoid taking on all of NATO. An NFZ will almost assuredly cause him to negotiate a much better deal for the Ukrainians or, at the very least, give many Ukrainians safe passage to Europe on this side of the Dnieper.


Anyway: WWII deaths by Country:

Rank	Country	Total Deaths in WWII (Low Estimate)	% of Population
1	Soviet Union	20,000,000	13.7
2	China	15,000,000	2.9
3	Germany	6,900,000	8.23
4	Poland	5,900,000	16.93
5	Dutch East Indies	3,000,000	4.3
6	Japan	2,500,000	3.5
7	India	1,027,000	0.58
8	Yugoslavia	1,027,000	6.63
9	French Indochina	1,000,000	4.05
10	France	600,000	1.44
11	Philippines	557,000	3.48
12	Romania	500,000	3.13
13	Italy	492,400	1.11
14	Korea	483,000	1.99
15	Hungary	464,000	5.08
16	United Kingdom	450,900	0.94
17	United States	419,400	0.32
18	Lithuania	370,000	14.36
19	Czechoslovakia	340,000	2.33
20	Greece	300,000	7.02

Thankfully, American's are really good at making our enemies pay with their own blood. We lost 0.32% of our population in WW2, Poland lost 16.93% of theirs (to Germany and Russia). European losses dwarf ours, even though that left many, many American families in grief.

The Soviets and Chinese were defending themselves against viscous invasions. Their losses are almost incredulous.

 

[Zorba]

Phillip Morris is out.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1501588828976521223

What's it take to get them out of the US?

 

[adamsleath]

Syrian mercenaries.
Russia needs to counter with Guerilla units. To save their armour and supply trains.

Yeh Im thinking from the Russian side.
Obviously.

And yes it's different to me because this is 'closer to home' albeit far away from me geographically, but Ukraine historically culturally language wise is a special distinct culture/people. Etc etc.

Russians. Versus this little prick Putin. Also a diverse culture. They don't exactly have freedom of speech.

Have to draw a line somewhere. In Ukraine ultimately.
Assuming you want to sue for peace.
Donetsk and L forget them. Donbass was the warzone for long time. Now P has escalated it for all Ukraine.

Shitty mess.
I get the feeling that warmongers get a real kick out of others suffering. Playing general. Unfortunately I've come from this background, like many others. So many wars. Put the weapons down and go home
FFS. Enuf is enuf. Sick of it.
Depressing.

 

[Zorba]

Oh we ran out of fuel and had to land here, then we lost the valet ticket and he still has the keys.. I trust they are not out for any joy rides... He did say not to worry and they are professionals...

Just have a video of Ukraine breaking on to base and stealing them. Then issue a sternly written statement about the carelessness of stealing planes.

 

[Thump553]

This whole Poland MIG thing, I strongly suspect the issue is not some sort of disguising where the jets came from. I strongly suspect Poland is trying to strong arm the US into giving them top of the line jets on a one for one basis for junkers they "donate" to Ukraine via the USA. The Pentagon is balking because such a sweet heart deal without Congressional approval violates US law.

Don't be so quick to dump on the Pentagon or President without knowing what is really going on.

 

[nOOky]

Why the fuck does it always have to be US who bleeds for the other countries?

We are the Jack Reacher of the world. We can't stand by while our neighbor is beating his wife, sorry. What the hell else are we spending so much of our GDP on? Let's use those planes and bombs before the shelf life is up, we can always make more.

We should be sending the Russians our MRE's. Be funny to see their faces when they open that packet of chicken stew.

 

[pauldun170]

You really can’t compare a somewhat upgraded Mig29 to a current production F16 Block 70.

The Polish Mig29's are not even remotely comparable to any semi modern F-16 built after the mid 80's.
Sure they've had some systems shoved in to those tired old frames but they are archaic. Mig29A's and the trainer UB's. They have all the serious shortcomings of that initial trashheap and no amount of patch work avionics is going to change that. It's generally accepted that while fine for academic exercise and BFM, its lacking in that whole "combat aircraft" thing. They made so many changes to uncrapfiy the thing they created a whole new designation for modern era versions. Mig35's

“It’s a great [basic fighter maneuvers] machine,” he says. “But of the four fighters, it’s easily the worst-handling of any I flew.”
...
But it had low fuel capacity, a head-down, knob- and switch-congested cockpit, a so-so radar, and not much versatility: It wasn’t designed to do much besides intercept and shoot down adversaries who were flying not far from its airfield.

You can't even compare F-16's to F-16's nowadays.
Modern F-16's are some of the best multi-role attack aircraft in the world.

This whole Poland MIG thing, I strongly suspect the issue is not some sort of disguising where the jets came from. I strongly suspect Poland is trying to strong arm the US into giving them top of the line jets on a one for one basis for junkers they "donate" to Ukraine via the USA. The Pentagon is balking because such a sweet heart deal without Congressional approval violates US law.

Don't be so quick to dump on the Pentagon or President without knowing what is really going on.

Poland operates F-16's and Mig29's
Mig-29's are to be junk heaped in 2025.
Poland's F-35 Deliveries start in 2024.

They are already in line for a fleet of the best of what NATO has to offer.
They don't have to strong arm anyone.

 

[Racan]

Heavy artillery barrage in Kharkiv tonight

https://twitter.com/x/status/1501670221089804292

 

[Roger Wilco]

Some British soldiers are going AWOL to fight in Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1501678517989384194

 

[K1052]

huh wonder how the Iranians feel about Russia trying to screw their deal because they fucked up bad

https://twitter.com/x/status/1501657412926939140

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Forward they cried and the front ranks died ......



Roger Waters Calls Putin's Invasion of Ukraine 'The Act of a Gangster'

Rolling Stone|29 minutes ago
I will do everything in my power to help bring peace back to you and your family and your beautiful country," he writes to Ukrainian fan

 

[pete6032]

People are getting their limbs blown off and dying and FOX is dedicating waay too much space to articles about gas prices.

 

[cytg111]

Sorry, I forgot. You're "european," youse folks won WWI and WWII all by yourselves...and you kept the Soviets at bay without any outside help.

Knock Knock motherfucker.

So what it is it? WW2 was none of your fucking problems and you only entered to save poor Europeans?
You dealt the cards, now fucking play them.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Knock Knock motherfucker.

So what it is it? WW2 was none of your fucking problems and you only entered to save poor Europeans?
You dealt the cards, now fucking play them.

Homer: yeah, well we saved your ass in WW1 and WW2
Hew: yeah, well we saved your ass in WW3!

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Why the fuck does it always have to be US who bleeds for the other countries?

A lot of our luxuries have come at the expense of other parts of the world. The US doesn't bleed for free.

 

[VRAMdemon]

This whole Poland MIG thing, I strongly suspect the issue is not some sort of disguising where the jets came from. I strongly suspect Poland is trying to strong arm the US into giving them top of the line jets on a one for one basis for junkers they "donate" to Ukraine via the USA. The Pentagon is balking because such a sweet heart deal without Congressional approval violates US law.

Don't be so quick to dump on the Pentagon or President without knowing what is really going on.

Or they could just take Trumps idea and paint a Chinese flag on them. That'll confuse them Lol!

Obviously they disagree on whether to deliver the fighters to Ukraine, and if so, how it should be done. We’re at an impasse. So, in the interim, we’re going to park them at this airfield, a few kilometers from the border. We’ll leave the keys in the ignition, so to speak, in case we need to move them in a hurry. Then we’re all going to go into this nearby building, and close the door, and we’re going to talk about the situation. We’ll be very focused on this conversation, and not paying attention to any distractions outside. We won’t come out until we have a decision. It could take a while. A long, long while.

 

[cytg111]

Homer: yeah, well we saved your ass in WW1 and WW2
Hew: yeah, well we saved your ass in WW3!

The two is not mutual exclusive right? As I've come to understand history then the US had its own reasons for entering the war, on top of that we probably wouldnt had been able to push Germany back without the US.
I am pretty sure one part of US rationale was that its better to fight off Nazi Germany on Euro soil than on American soil. The way the global power axis'es were playing out were objectively not settling in US's favor.
And in terms of NATO, as they say, to keep the US in, Germany down and Mother Russia at bay.

 

[Fenixgoon]

The two is not mutual exclusive right? As I've come to understand history then the US had its own reasons for entering the war, on top of that we probably wouldnt had been able to push Germany back without the US.
I am pretty sure one part of US rationale was that its better to fight off Nazi Germany on Euro soil than on American soil. The way the global power axis'es were playing out were objectively not settling in US's favor.
And in terms of NATO, as they say, to keep the US in, Germany down and Mother Russia at bay.

I was being a bit cheeky quoting the Simpsons. The idea that this isn't our problem because it's not occurring on our soil is preposterous.

We have sent soldiers to die all over the world, not because our country was under immediate threat, but because of geopolitics.

I'm still of the position that we should continue providing materiel support and not soldiers, because that would escalate things. But if it gets to that point, I have no problems with NATO using force.

I don't want another unilateral boondoggle though. We need our allies, and we need to show that NATO is arguably stronger than ever now (ironically thanks to Putin invading Ukraine in the first place). But, I don't think we're at that point just yet on the military side of things. The economic sanctions have been crippling and will continue to escalate things "naturally" as resources and goods become more scarce.

 

[VRAMdemon]

This Chernobyl situation is spiraling out of control.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/09/chernobyl-ukraine-russia-iaea-nuclear-monitoring-lost/

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba on Wednesday demanded a cease-fire with Russia to allow repairs.

“Because of military actions of Russian occupiers the nuclear power plant in Chornobyl was fully disconnected from the power grid. Nuclear station has no power supply,” Ukrenergo said in a statement on its official Telegram page, using Ukraine’s spelling for the plant.

He warned that after reserve diesel generators run out of fuel, “cooling systems of the storage facility for spent nuclear fuel will stop, making radiation leaks imminent. Putin’s barbaric war puts entire Europe in danger.”

 

[Fenixgoon]

This Chernobyl situation is spiraling out of control.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/09/chernobyl-ukraine-russia-iaea-nuclear-monitoring-lost/

surely the IAEA is doing some number crunching and risk evaluation?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

A Bolton out of the blue .....


Bolton: 'Putin saw Trump doing a lot of his work for him'

The Hill on MSN.com|6 hours ago
Former national security adviser John Bolton said Wednesday that one of the reasons that Russian President Vladimir Putin did not mo ,,,

Bolton sheds light on why Putin didn't invade Ukraine under Trump

MSNBC|1 day ago
As Bolton sees it, Putin saw an American president moving in a direction Moscow liked, and the Russian leader was waiting for Trump to finish the job.

 

[spacejamz]

You can't even compare F-16's to F-16's nowadays.
Modern F-16's are some of the best multi-role attack aircraft in the world.

Here's a pic of a modernized F-16 with conformal fuel tanks...pretty different from the first ones that came off the line...