Rittenhouse trial to start soon, Judge is laying out rules.

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Amol S.

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
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conehead433 said:
So the defense didn't like a video that showed their client executing a man. I guess not.
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Dave_5k said:
Yes, the judge "CAN". However, I'd still predict near 0 chance of him granting a mistrial with prejudice.

If judge was going to dismiss with prejudice, he should have ruled on that promptly after giving opportunity for both sides to argue case.

That being said, if jury finds Rittenhouse guilty of murder charge on the Rosenbaum count, I'd guess at least 50/50 odds that the judge grants mistrial (not with prejudice) on at least that count, as it would appear to be partly based on prosecution drone video evidence discovered mid-trial and not provided to defense.
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The prosecutor can actually use the evidence, if he can prove the defense knew about such drone video, but tried to prevent the prosecutor knowing about such video to give the defense an advantage. This would flip the tables, but it is quite hard to prove such an action of unfair advantage.
 
pcgeek11

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,415
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136
Vic said:
I know this is a difficult concept for some, but not everything is required to be intuitive to your experience or "common sense."
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So you're not going to answer the question?

What kind of "professional environment" would that be a safety violation?

What I stated was the safe method for gun handling. Anyone that is a gun handling professional will agree with me on this.

Sorry that you don't like it.

oag.ca.gov

Firearm Safety

Links to Topics below The Six Basic Gun Safety Rules Additional Safety Points Guns and Children--Firearm Owner Responsibilities Rules for Kids Methods of Childproofing your Firearm Firearm Safety Certificate Study Guide Firearms Safety and the Risk of Owning A Firearm Pamphlet THE SIX BASIC...
oag.ca.gov oag.ca.gov

THE SIX BASIC GUN SAFETY RULES

There are six basic gun safety rules for gun owners to understand and practice at all times:

1. Treat all guns as if they are loaded. Always assume that a gun is loaded even if you think it is unloaded. Every time a gun is handled for any reason, check to see that it is unloaded. If you are unable to check a gun to see if it is unloaded, leave it alone and seek help from someone more knowledgeable about guns.

2. Keep the gun pointed in the safest possible direction. Always be aware of where a gun is pointing. A "safe direction" is one where an accidental discharge of the gun will not cause injury or damage. Only point a gun at an object you intend to shoot. Never point a gun toward yourself or another person.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. Always keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot. Even though it may be comfortable to rest your finger on the trigger, it also is unsafe. If you are moving around with your finger on the trigger and stumble or fall, you could inadvertently pull the trigger. Sudden loud noises or movements can result in an accidental discharge because there is a natural tendency to tighten the muscles when startled. The trigger is for firing and the handle is for handling.

4. Know your target, its surroundings and beyond. Check that the areas in front of and behind your target are safe before shooting. Be aware that if the bullet misses or completely passes through the target, it could strike a person or object. Identify the target and make sure it is what you intend to shoot. If you are in doubt, DON'T SHOOT! Never fire at a target that is only a movement, color, sound or unidentifiable shape. Be aware of all the people around you before you shoot.

5. Know how to properly operate your gun. It is important to become thoroughly familiar with your gun. You should know its mechanical characteristics including how to properly load, unload and clear a malfunction from your gun. Obviously, not all guns are mechanically the same. Never assume that what applies to one make or model is exactly applicable to another. You should direct questions regarding the operation of your gun to your firearms dealer, or contact the manufacturer directly.

6. Store your gun safely and securely to prevent unauthorized use. Guns and ammunition should be stored separately. When the gun is not in your hands, you must still think of safety. Use a California-approved firearms safety device on the gun, such as a trigger lock or cable lock, so it cannot be fired. Store it unloaded in a locked container, such as a California-approved lock box or a gun safe. Store your gun in a different location than the ammunition. For maximum safety you should use both a locking device and a storage container.

ADDITIONAL SAFETY POINTS

The six basic safety rules are the foundational rules for gun safety. However, there are additional safety points that must not be overlooked.
  • Never handle a gun when you are in an emotional state such as anger or depression. Your judgment may be impaired.
  • Never shoot a gun in celebration (the Fourth of July or New Year's Eve, for example). Not only is this unsafe, but it is generally illegal. A bullet fired into the air will return to the ground with enough speed to cause injury or death.
  • Do not shoot at water, flat or hard surfaces. The bullet can ricochet and hit someone or something other than the target.
  • Hand your gun to someone only after you verify that it is unloaded and the cylinder or action is open. Take a gun from someone only after you verify that it is unloaded and the cylinder or action is open.
  • Guns, alcohol and drugs don't mix. Alcohol and drugs can negatively affect judgment as well as physical coordination. Alcohol and any other substance likely to impair normal mental or physical functions should not be used before or while handling guns. Avoid handling and using your gun when you are taking medications that cause drowsiness or include a warning to not operate machinery while taking this drug.
  • The loud noise from a fired gun can cause hearing damage, and the debris and hot gas that is often emitted can result in eye injury. Always wear ear and eye protection when shooting a gun.
 
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SKORPI0

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
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I

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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emperus said:
You clearly don't know what exculpatory is. How does a video of him pointing a gun at people exculpatory or helps free him from guilt? The act of pointing a AR15 at someone can be seen as provocation. Shit, didn't Kyle say he shot someone because he was in fear for his life because that person pointed a gun at him?

The word you're looking for is inculpatory. The defense would have liked to see it beforehand so they could have tailored their defense to it and have Kyle lie again about what happened, instead of lying on the stand and saying he never pointed the gun at anyone.
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Yeah definitely not exculpatory. The defense had the video though, but allege it was a lower quality compressed version. They would have to demonstrate that there is a difference in the videos that would alter their defense to grant a mistrial. I'm skeptical there could be such a difference in videos where one clearly shows Rittenhouse pointing a gun at protestors and another doesn't. The difference does not have to be intentional to be grounds for a mistrial. At this point, it wouldn't be with prejudice, but I'm not hopeful of a guilty verdict standing the way it's being handled. It would certainly be counterproductive to declare it a mistrial ahead of a verdict if the jury would find him not guilty, but at the same time if he was going to rule against the motion anyway, there would be no need to wait to do so. Perhaps he wants to hear arguments and see more evidence to rule on the motion afterward if a guilty verdict is reached.
 
I

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,031
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SKORPI0 said:
5th day deliberating. Jurors asking to bring home a copy of the 36 page jury instructions. :grimacing:
This taking this long to decide, probably dead locked to get a verdict.

www.jsonline.com

Kyle Rittenhouse trial live updates: Rittenhouse will go on Fox News' 'Tucker Carlson Tonight' on Monday

The jury found Kyle Rittenhouse not guilty on all five counts. Follow our live coverage here.
www.jsonline.com www.jsonline.com

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I'm not sure they would be so picky about the jury instructions if it were simply some jurors dead set in opposite camps. In reality, I do find this to be a challenging case simply looking at the law.
 
HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,912
33,566
136
Start the countdown until KR is arrested for something else. This kid is a class A dirtbag.

Over/under 6 months

Also predict there will be some backlash for that judge for his obvious bias.
 
D

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,554
16,913
146
HomerJS said:
Start the countdown until KR is arrested for something else. This kid is a class A dirtbag

Over/under 6 months
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I'm betting less than a month before we hear of another shooting by some hapless citizen that just happened to be at the wrong place at the right time with a long rifle.
 
UNCjigga

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,709
10,456
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HomerJS said:
Start the countdown until KR is arrested for something else. This kid is a class A dirtbag

Over/under 6 months
Click to expand...

Meh, hopefully he uses his 15 minutes of infamy to cash in on a book deal and then fades into obscurity. I don’t hate him, but I hate the idea of some holding him up as some kind of hero.
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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UNCjigga said:
Meh, hopefully he uses his 15 minutes of infamy to cash in on a book deal and then fades into obscurity. I don’t hate him, but I hate the idea of some holding him up as some kind of hero.
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The people I know have envied his marksmanship and self control that night.
To be able to survive the lynch mob. We could only hope to be so lucky when the rioting mob attacks. Then the media went and finished the job.

He is not guilty, "free" to be a hated pariah outcast from normal society, further hunted by the peers of those animals on the street that night and only welcomed by a terrible right wing element that will end up using him. Either way, Rittenhouse's life was not saved that night. I cannot imagine a positive outcome from where he stands now.
 
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UNCjigga

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
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Jaskalas said:
The people I know have envied his marksmanship and self control that night.
To be able to survive the lynch mob. We could only hope to be so lucky when the rioting mob attacks. Then the media went and finished the job.

He is not guilty, "free" to be a hated pariah outcast from normal society, further hunted by the peers of those animals on the street that night and only welcomed by a terrible right wing element that will end up using him. Either way, Rittenhouse's life was not saved that night. I cannot imagine a positive outcome from where he stands now.
Click to expand...

You do realize Rittenhouse is no different from “those animals on the street that night”? Kid had no business being there—same as any of those protestors who were itching for a fight in Kenosha.
 
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Vic

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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UNCjigga said:
Meh, hopefully he uses his 15 minutes of infamy to cash in on a book deal and then fades into obscurity. I don’t hate him, but I hate the idea of some holding him up as some kind of hero.
Click to expand...
My concern is that his behavior was just part of a larger ongoing trend in America of using private citizen militia-types in order to infringe on Constitutional rights. Govt and the police can't easily get away with this, so corrupt officials embolden private citizens by convincing them that their 2a rights and 'law and order' allow them to infringe on other people's Constitutional rights (4a, etc), tell these 'sovereign citizens' to act like they're the police, up to and including the false belief that they can kill other citizens in 'self-defense' for not recognizing their citizens arrest authority.
Basically 'comply or die' and 'back the blue,' but any citizen can do it, as long as they identify with the 'right' political party.

And for those who would claim that this is necessary for the preservation of law and order, I just want to point out again in this thread that many other countries already do this, some for many decades, and all of them are crime-ridden, impoverished, and corrupt. Because very quickly the 'citizens safety militia' is always corrupted into organized crime.
 
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K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Jaskalas said:
The people I know have envied his marksmanship and self control that night.
To be able to survive the lynch mob. We could only hope to be so lucky when the rioting mob attacks. Then the media went and finished the job.

He is not guilty, "free" to be a hated pariah outcast from normal society, further hunted by the peers of those animals on the street that night and only welcomed by a terrible right wing element that will end up using him. Either way, Rittenhouse's life was not saved that night. I cannot imagine a positive outcome from where he stands now.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ the victimhood.
 
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HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,912
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Vic said:
My concern is that his behavior was just part of a larger ongoing trend in America of using private citizen militia-types in order to infringe on Constitutional rights. Govt and the police can't easily get away with this, so corrupt officials embolden private citizens by convincing them that their 2a rights and 'law and order' allow them to infringe on other people's Constitutional rights (4a, etc), tell these 'sovereign citizens' to act like they're the police, up to and including the false belief that they can kill other citizens in 'self-defense' for not recognizing their citizens arrest authority.
Basically 'comply or die' and 'back the blue,' but any citizen can do it, as long as they identify with the 'right' political party.

And for those who would claim that this is necessary for the preservation of law and order, I just want to point out again in this thread that many other countries already do this, some for many decades, and all of them are crime-ridden, impoverished, and corrupt. Because very quickly the 'citizens safety militia' is always corrupted into organized crime.
Click to expand...
Know when that will stop? When black people start arming themselves and take to the streets and arresting white people. Just like Republicans in the 60s who backed gun control.
 
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HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,912
33,566
136
Jaskalas said:
The people I know have envied his marksmanship and self control that night.
To be able to survive the lynch mob. We could only hope to be so lucky when the rioting mob attacks. Then the media went and finished the job.

He is not guilty, "free" to be a hated pariah outcast from normal society, further hunted by the peers of those animals on the street that night and only welcomed by a terrible right wing element that will end up using him. Either way, Rittenhouse's life was not saved that night. I cannot imagine a positive outcome from where he stands now.
Click to expand...
Know who didn't survive a real lynch mob? Ahmed Arbury.
 
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SMOGZINN

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
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HomerJS said:
Know when that will stop? When black people start arming themselves and take to the streets and arresting white people. Just like Republicans in the 60s who backed gun control.
Click to expand...

The problem with this theory is that out legal system does not mind being hypocritical and finding a black man guilty of something they will let a white man off on. I guarantee you if Rittenhouse was black he would either be dead or in prison right now.
 
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