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Remember that shutdown Trump WILL have?

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,236
3,035
126
That's not true. The influx of undocumented workers ended 10 years ago. Their numbers actually fell. There's still some back & forth even with the increased security Dems support. It will always be that way to some extent unless we want to do it like the former GDR.

We nonetheless have the legacy of the past to deal with. The Dreamers. 250K Salvadoran refugees here since 2001. Others who have lived & worked peaceably among us for many, many years & have American citizen children & even grandchildren.

They deserve our respect & compassion. We owe it to ourselves to provide it.
You probably wrote this while I was doing post 221. I was presenting the usual stereotypical arguments as to why immigration reform doesn't take place. I would add to your statement the fact that if some real fix to immigration policy is put in place that satisfies a really healthy portion of the American people, it will be one less fear button Republicans can press come time for elections.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,851
2,369
126
Lol no they didn’t. What candidate ran on a platform of being anti-wall? Hey win largely as a backlash against Trump.
Which by your argument that the reason to vote for the wall is because people voted for Trump because he promised a wall, means that people voting against Trump means we should not have a wall because the people have now rejected it.


Provide a compromise, is a Nancy proposing real measures with teeth that will cut down on illegal immigration?
Here is the thing, the Republicans have offered nothing at all in compromise. They are simply demanding it. Democrats actually did offer a compromise, the wall for protection for DACA. Trump shot it down, now no one trusts that Trump and the GOP will honor a compromise. Reputation matters, and the GOP with Trump has trashed theirs.

the wall doesn’t harm anything either other than blowing money (shovel ready stimulus though amirite).
Yes, it does. Multiple reports have shown that if we built such a wall it would be a economic, ecological, and PR nightmare. It will be seen as a monument to racism, it will harm wildlife to the point of making several species extinct, it will require the use of Eminent domain to get the land to build the wall hurting individuals. It has almost no upside, and causes a lot of harm. That is a very good reason to oppose it.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,323
1,355
126
Due to an economic downturn. It wasn’t “brought under control”, economic forces controlled it. You would be against such proposal mentioned above?
 

Viper1j

Platinum Member
Jul 31, 2018
2,887
1,666
106
Why is it the Democrats have to compromise and find a solution for every fucking problem the right creates?

Fuck em. Let em have a 2 year shutdown.
Let us hope and pray the Secret Service knows about "Blue Flu"..
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
60,296
12,295
136
Due to an economic downturn. It wasn’t “brought under control”, economic forces controlled it. You would be against such proposal mentioned above?
Only partially true. Border control has also increased a lot over the years. The flow of people across the border is more tightly controlled than ever before.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,323
1,355
126
You're arguing with a guy that thinks we should build a wall becase more people oppose building than support building. Not sure there is a rational thought process happening.

I don’t think we should build a wall. I’m asking why this issue is the one to dig your heels into resulting in a gov shutdown. Why this one?
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
7,653
4,639
136
Ah the truth, finally someone says it. And yes I do believe parties should compromise. Digging into ideology is a disaster for this country.
But again, they shouldn't compromise for compromise's sake. That's not good politics, that's just creating the illusion of reasonableness while allowing the unreasonable to continue.

Imagine if the Republicans insisted on banning all renewable energy; should the Democrats compromise on that just so they can expand health care coverage? No, of course not -- any intelligent person would tell you that sacrificing the environment (and many green energy jobs) for a short-term gain wouldn't be worth the tradeoff. So why is the wall different? It would be a serious, long-term mistake.

It's not about "digging into ideology." It's about doing the right thing. The wall isn't just an ineffective waste of money, it's rooted in xenophobia and is a betrayal of everything the US is supposed to represent. There's nothing the Democrats could realistically expect to obtain that could make up for something so evil, so why should they bend on it? Yeah, I'm sure they're cynical enough to treat this as an election strategy, but they also have the moral imperative and facts on their side.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
60,296
12,295
136
Anybody else notice how weird it is that people in Trump country are all up in arms about icky illegals when they don't deal with illegals enough to matter. Throwing them all out sounds like a peachy idea when they don't have to deal with the reality of what that would entail for the communities where illegals actually live. They live in large metro areas, for the most part. They're 10% of the population of greater LA, for example, 1M people. Anybody who thinks the rest of the people in that area want the govt to go all Gestapo on them is out of their minds, and they'll tell you so.

But the GOP keeps 'em all riled up about it, somehow, suckering them into voting for the ol' trickle down every time.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,323
1,355
126
But again, they shouldn't compromise for compromise's sake. That's not good politics,

Yea they should and yes it is good politics. Have you ever been married? It’s impossible to get by without compromise, even if you think...no you know!...the other side is wrong. We have a marriage of opposing viewpoints that makes up this great country and yes compromise is sorely needed. The Newt Gingrich approach of no compromise is ripping the country apart. So yes, they should.
 

zzyzxroad

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2017
1,975
1,084
106
Yea they should and yes it is good politics. Have you ever been married? It’s impossible to get by without compromise, even if you think...no you know!...the other side is wrong. We have a marriage of opposing viewpoints that makes up this great country and yes compromise is sorely needed. The Newt Gingrich approach of no compromise is ripping the country apart. So yes, they should.
Should the compromise you speak of be a one way street? How have the right compromised on anything?
 
Jun 19, 2004
24,141
1,581
126
Should the compromise you speak of be a one way street? How have the right compromised on anything?
This is entirely the orange one's show, the right really doesn't have much to do with it unless they do an end run and approve a budget without the wall money. Of course, trump would just go nuclear and veto. Then, we'd have to wait to see if an override could be achieved.
 

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
8,458
912
126
Germany built a wall and Reagan tore it down.
Walls ARE NOT a good idea. Period.
The intension may be to keep things out, but more so walls isolate those within.
Do we really want to become a nation of third world shut-ins?
After the wall then it will become shutting out science, then shutting out our friends, shutting out our allies, shutting out ideas, shutting out free thinking, shutting out free speech. We will become those people in the movie DELIVERANCE.
Pass me the banjo. o_O
And the world will pass us by because after all... WHO NEEDS A STUPID AMERICA, REALLY?
Life can AND WILL go on without us.

China will step in, progress into the future, as well as the Soviet Union while Putin looks on laughing all the way at what America has become.
America will become a bunch of isolated, paranoid, spineless, quivering jelly people. Afraid of our own shadows.

And then we have that money for the wall.....
Trump wants 5 billion. Other estimates up to 30 billion.
WE MUST REMEMBER, who it is asking for this money.
Donald Trump, THE PROVEN CON MAN.
The same con man who's foundation was just shut down because of fraud.
The same con man who used money from others to feather his own nest.
Donald Trump THE CROOK.

It will start out at 5 billion. Then 10 billion. After that, 10 billion won't be enough and Donald will come to the people once again demanding 15 or 20 billion more in his words "NEEDED TO GET THIS DONE".
Donald Trump will say to the people, WE NEED WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THIS WALL FINISHED.
There will be no limit.

But consider this....
With Donald Trump's history of conning people and cheating people, a 30 billion wall funded by the American taxpayer will be just the taxpayer loot Donald Trump needs to re-direct that money into his own pockets.
It will be "his" companies doing the work and taking in that money.
And eventually it will then be exposed that Donald Trump Inc. is doing a lot more of raking in the money than actually building any wall.
And THAT is why the need for cash for building that Trump wall will never cease.
Donald Trump will demand more and more and more from the American taxpayer.
And remember.... ALL FUNDED by YOU, THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER.

See where this is heading?
Things are NOT as they appear.
Donald Trump is possibly orchestrating his biggest con of all time.
About to feather his own nest in biblical proportions.
That very same playbook followed by third world dictators.
After all.... if Vladimir Putin can play his people, and get very rich doing it, why not Donald Trump?
 
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Viper1j

Platinum Member
Jul 31, 2018
2,887
1,666
106
I don’t think we should build a wall. I’m asking why this issue is the one to dig your heels into resulting in a gov shutdown. Why this one?
Can't wait to see how the Trumpanzees will deal with the ladder ban.

Any "wall" would be useless without it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,236
3,035
126
Imagine that turnips had money to spend and could be advertised to on Turnip Fair and Balanced TV. And since the revenue you can make from advertising depends on the number of Turnip eyes that watch your station, would it not make sense to generate Turnip enthusiasm among your audience. If you could tailor your message to the looming disaster the Turnip world faces from the Sugar Beet people, you could generate quite a going enterprise for the milking of that wonderful Turnip cash.

It would seem, therefore, that anybody really interested in helping the Turnip world from being bleed so disingenuously, would be to go after those whose lust for Turnip cash outweighs their Turnipmanity. Turnip TV and all like it should be shut down and the way to do it is to go after the advertisers whose ads appear there by boycotting and public shame. Set up more organizations to mock the shit they sell and advertise it on those stations.
 

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