Remember that shutdown Trump WILL have?

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Can any one of the wall supporters tell me what, specifically, the wall is targeting? Why do we need a wall and not other methods that actually accomplish something? The wall doesn't stop drug smuggling, it doesn't address the overwhelming majority of illegals. What is the purpose of it anyway when so much more could be done for so much less that would actually have an impact?

it's a symbol of Trumps power of course.

 

[IronWing]

A little less than half the population is not a large segment? Really?

Since I live near the border and would actually be affected by the wall, I have a simple message for wall supporters who live in areas completely unaffected by the wall: Go fuck yourselves.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Mr. Trump-before he became a minority elected President-made his promise quite clear literally hundreds of times-MEXICO WAS GOING TO PAY FOR THE WALL. The ace negotiator also claimed he would get them to agree to pay within hours after he took office. Guess what? Trump flat out lied, hundreds of times on this subject alone.

The Trump Wall is a huge boondoggle-an enormous expense and diversion of resources that WILL NOT WORK.

If Trump loyalists feel so strongly about the Trump (TM) Wall, and aren't concerned that Mexico isn't going to pay for it, and don't care at all about the private property rights the federal government will have to trample upon to get the rights to build this joke, then they can pay for it themselves. There is a gofundme page active, feel free to throw your money away there.

This is yet one more example of Trump's grandstanding and 180 degree changes. Thursday, after the House voted and senators and Congressmen left for home upon the assurance Trump would sign the bill, he reneged. He's been demanding this shutdown for several months-probably as a diversion to his mounting legal problems. It's time to stand up to this pretender.

The Mexico will pay for it was a stupid and empty promise and the point Trumo was becoming a politician. Empty promises. But the desire for a wall was certainly very real. He didn’t have to say the lie that Mexico would pay for it, his base wanted it anyways and was quite willing to pay for it.

 

[IronWing]

The Mexico will pay for it was a stupid and empty promise and the point Trumo was becoming a politician. Empty promises. But the desire for a wall was certainly very real. He didn’t have to say the lie that Mexico would pay for it, his base wanted it anyways and was quite willing to pay for it.

Trump's base doesn't pay enough in taxes to cover their own welfare payments; they ain't paying for shit.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Certainly Trump doesn't. I mean, this is the guy who thought he'd give the Democrats an "out" by rephrasing the wall as "steel slats..." and revealed that tactic on national television. (Not that the Dems were likely to fall for it regardless.)

Besides, what kind of compromise is possible here? You can't build half the wall, and Trump wouldn't support a virtual wall. And it'd be horrific to allow the construction of such an inhumane, ecologically damaging, expensive and ineffective structure just so the Democrats appear to make a compromise. This is the kind of thing you make an absolute stand on.

Do you remember the omnibus bill that Trump signed which caused his base to melt. Gave Nancy and Chuck what they wanted and he got a boost (which I’m against) to military spending. And the gov spending rolled on.

What kind of compromise, I dunno. Have your political leaders make one. A wall for healthcare. Or a boost to welfare. Or something, make a proposal. Not just say no way no how.

 

[Jhhnn]

I completely agree it’s a waste of resources but it’s what a large segment of America wants. There’s a LOT of wasted resources in the government. Why is this the one that causes you to dig up your heels in and cause a government shutdown?

What part of defective thinking do you fail to comprehend?

You pointedly ignore GOP duplicity in all this. The spending measure vetoed by Trump was passed by a GOP congress with Dem help. They can easily override that veto should they choose.

So, was McConnell insincere when he passed the measure or insincere now when he kowtows to Trump?

 

[UglyCasanova]

Since I live near the border and would actually be affected by the wall, I have a simple message for wall supporters who live in areas completely unaffected by the wall: Go fuck yourselves.

Every place in America is affected by it. The illegal immigrants simply stay put along the border, really?

 

[IronWing]

So, was McConnell insincere when he passed the measure or insincere now when he kowtows to Trump?

It could be both.

 

[IronWing]

Every place in America is affected by it. The illegal immigrants simply stay put along the border, really?

The wall won't do shit to prevent illegal migration so that point is moot.

 

[hal2kilo]

The wall won't do shit to prevent illegal migration so that point is moot.

It's like these people have no concept that the majority come here with legal visas, and over stay. Wall will have 0 effect on this situation.

 

[Jhhnn]

A little less than half the population is not a large segment? Really?

It was actually less than 28% of the eligible electorate, a full 2% less than his rival.

 

[UglyCasanova]

The wall won't do shit to prevent illegal migration so that point is moot.

I agree, but that’s not why the left seems to be against it. Nancy isn’t on tv saying no to the wall because of it being ineffective and here’s a better idea.

 

[Commodus]

Do you remember the omnibus bill that Trump signed which caused his base to melt. Gave Nancy and Chuck what they wanted and he got a boost (which I’m against) to military spending. And the gov spending rolled on.

What kind of compromise, I dunno. Have your political leaders make one. A wall for healthcare. Or a boost to welfare. Or something, make a proposal. Not just say no way no how.

Do you really think the Republicans in Congress would back those kinds of Democrat proposals, let alone Trump? No, they wouldn't -- you can't even question that. So what's the point of making offers like that if it had the same result? Better to make a principled stand and let Trump and the Republicans squirm until they (hopefully) give in or get voted out.

 

[zzyzxroad]

It's like these people have no concept that the majority come here with legal visas, and over stay. Wall will have 0 effect on this situation.

Yeah but how do you put a catchy slogan around that. Stupid people need something to chant at the rally.

 

[IronWing]

I agree, but that’s not why the left seems to be against it. Nancy isn’t on tv saying no to the wall because of it being ineffective and here’s a better idea.

^What is this crap? Come back with a real argument or get the f' out.

 

[UglyCasanova]

It was actually less than 28% of the eligible electorate, a full 2% less than his rival.

People don’t vote, that doesn’t mean they don’t hold political opinions. If you think that 28% of electorate are the only ones supporting the ideas you’re misguided. I have no idea if half the country is for it or not, but it’s certainly more than pool of people who actually casts a vote. In any case, still a large segment. Hell 28% of eligible voters is a large segment.

 

[Jhhnn]

^What is this crap? Come back with a real argument or get the f' out.

UC just needs more straw.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Do you really think the Republicans in Congress would back those kinds of Democrat proposals, let alone Trump? No, they wouldn't -- you can't even question that. So what's the point of making offers like that if it had the same result? Better to make a principled stand and let Trump and the Republicans squirm until they (hopefully) give in or get voted out.

No, probably not. But at least then the adems would become the party of compromise. Right now both sides (oh no!) are dug into ideology because it fuels their base.

And what principal are you standing for? That it’s a waste of money?

 

[dawp]

Am I wrong? Does Trump winning the presidency with a big campaign promise of a border wall not support the idea that a large segment of the population is for it?

and dems won the mid-term by not pushing the wall, and should they ignore their voters?

you're arguing that the wall is stupid but we should build it anyways because reasons.

 

[Indus]

People don’t vote, that doesn’t mean they don’t hold political opinions. If you think that 28% of electorate are the only ones supporting the ideas you’re misguided. I have no idea if half the country is for it or not, but it’s certainly more than pool of people who actually casts a vote. In any case, still a large segment. Hell 28% of eligible voters is a large segment.

You forget 90% of people for net neutrality yet the government of the 28% said fuck you!

 

[dank69]

Image or gif only posts are not allowed in P&N, save for the opposite world of "P&N and" where that's ALL you may post. Elsewise, in P&N, you must your own commentary, personally typed.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[UglyCasanova]

Lol no they didn’t. What candidate ran on a platform of being anti-wall? Hey win largely as a backlash against Trump.

 

[UglyCasanova]

You forget 90% of people for net neutrality yet the government of the 28% said fuck you!

Many in the right didn’t support it either. I’m not going to argue for he FCC and the push against net neutrality, it’s a travesty and something that should be pushed much, much more than it is. Literally government against the people. I would hazard to guess the people very much in favor of the wall outnumber the people very much against it. Most of the population doesn’t give a frick about it. Certainly not worthy of a government shutdown. But here we are.

 

[dawp]

Lol no they didn’t. What candidate ran on a platform of being anti-wall? Hey win largely as a backlash against Trump.

they sure as hell did not run on building the wall. pretty much all dems are against the wall.

the only ones still screaming for the wall is pretty much just his base.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Well no, of course they didn’t. But that’s not the reason they won either.