Religion of Peace

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Blue_Max

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,223
153
106
Victorian Gray said:
Nicely put. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

It is... but it doesn't negate that we can look in from the outside with some objectivity - enough to determine some basics like whether something is dangerous or not.

One doesn't have to be born and raised muslim, or indoctrinated before one can even speak, to be able to pick up a quran (etc) and read it. The more one studies it (and other) sources, the better ones objectivity can be - I would dare to say even better than that of someone inside the culture who's been taught from birth that all other cultures are "evil" and to leave the islamic faith/culture is punished by death at the hands of everyone they know and love.

Why is it so hard to discuss these basic concepts without the muslims going into a flying rage, and the apologists weeping and shaming the person who asked...?

It's because the answers are damning and both guilty and apologists don't want it out in the open... it's too ugly out in the open... better to cover it up and pretend it's nicer.
 
blastingcap

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Blue_Max said:
It is... but it doesn't negate that we can look in from the outside with some objectivity - enough to determine some basics like whether something is dangerous or not.

One doesn't have to be born and raised muslim, or indoctrinated before one can even speak, to be able to pick up a quran (etc) and read it. The more one studies it (and other) sources, the better ones objectivity can be - I would dare to say even better than that of someone inside the culture who's been taught from birth that all other cultures are "evil" and to leave the islamic faith/culture is punished by death at the hands of everyone they know and love.

Why is it so hard to discuss these basic concepts without the muslims going into a flying rage, and the apologists weeping and shaming the person who asked...?

It's because the answers are damning and both guilty and apologists don't want it out in the open... it's too ugly out in the open... better to cover it up and pretend it's nicer.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Raildogg meant well I'm sure, but it seems to me to be sliding towards the "all religions are equal" myth. No, I will never accept Scientology as the equal of, say, Hinduism. There is variance as to the religions, and the effects they have on the world, and some of it can be seen empirically.
 
R

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Victorian Gray, thanks.

Blue Max, do you believe that by simply reading the Quran, one might become more objective? If a person is not objective to begin with (like the vast majority of people), then how can they possibly actually read it? Add on top of that the fact that these books were written a long time ago and translated and changed over the years. I think they have lost a lot of their true significance due to that. Just because a person recites verses from a Holy Book does not mean he knows or you know what they are. These texts are called Holy for a reason. But I am with you, we need to be clear and open and stop pretending.

blastingcap, nothing is equal because everything is different. Religions are equal in only that they can be a way to live a certain life if one actually uses them in their daily life. I don't know of a single person who actually practices their religion on a daily basis. Going to Church or Mosque one or two days a week means nothing. If a person actually and truthfully lives their religion, then you will see a different world. No one does that and thus this is the world we have.

Yes, there is a variance in religions due to geography and other factors (time, location, etc). But, they all seem to be trying to guide man towards a certain path. The word truth is often mentioned. They are trying to show man the truth.

The way we are living, all of us, is furthest from the truth as possible. Do you think the ISIS guys are seeking out truth by beheading people? What kind of distorted view is that? These people are the epitome of a conditioned person. The local Imam who spreads hatred is furthest from his self-imposed religion no matter what he thinks. These people who put on the robe or some other religious symbol are blind and they are guiding more blind people. It will go on and on. Meanwhile, we will call these people "Muslims" because that's what we know them as. I mean, when a person calls himself a Muslim, he must be a Muslim, right?

I think your actions speak much more as to who you are rather than what you claim to be. But words such as Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jew, etc. have been so distorted and misused over the years that they have no meaning today. People have been abusing religion for their personal gain for thousands and thousands of years. It will continue. Calling yourself whatever religion you happen to be is like calling yourself a Redskins fan or whatever. You just belong to a team but it has no meaning.

Sorry for this long post.
 
Last edited:
ThinClient

ThinClient

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2013
3,977
4
0
Hayabusa Rider said:
No, you can't condemn an entire religion. You also can't keep bring up the Crusades or the Inquisition because those are from times when there was no other way of thinking available a half a century or more in the past.
Click to expand...

If only there was an unerring perfect god to help them, this never would have happened. :awe:
 
V

Victorian Gray

Lifer
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Blue_Max said:
It is... but it doesn't negate that we can look in from the outside with some objectivity - enough to determine some basics like whether something is dangerous or not.

One doesn't have to be born and raised muslim, or indoctrinated before one can even speak, to be able to pick up a quran (etc) and read it. The more one studies it (and other) sources, the better ones objectivity can be - I would dare to say even better than that of someone inside the culture who's been taught from birth that all other cultures are "evil" and to leave the islamic faith/culture is punished by death at the hands of everyone they know and love.

Why is it so hard to discuss these basic concepts without the muslims going into a flying rage, and the apologists weeping and shaming the person who asked...?

It's because the answers are damning and both guilty and apologists don't want it out in the open... it's too ugly out in the open... better to cover it up and pretend it's nicer.
Click to expand...

All Muslims? A large majority of Muslims? A small majority of Muslims? A large minority of Muslims? A small minority of Muslims? Or, a sweeping statement that is nothing more than a straw man?
 
V

Victorian Gray

Lifer
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
raildogg said:
Victorian Gray, thanks.

Blue Max, do you believe that by simply reading the Quran, one might become more objective? If a person is not objective to begin with (like the vast majority of people), then how can they possibly actually read it? Add on top of that the fact that these books were written a long time ago and translated and changed over the years. I think they have lost a lot of their true significance due to that. Just because a person recites verses from a Holy Book does not mean he knows or you know what they are. These texts are called Holy for a reason. But I am with you, we need to be clear and open and stop pretending.

blastingcap, nothing is equal because everything is different. Religions are equal in only that they can be a way to live a certain life if one actually uses them in their daily life. I don't know of a single person who actually practices their religion on a daily basis. Going to Church or Mosque one or two days a week means nothing. If a person actually and truthfully lives their religion, then you will see a different world. No one does that and thus this is the world we have.

Yes, there is a variance in religions due to geography and other factors (time, location, etc). But, they all seem to be trying to guide man towards a certain path. The word truth is often mentioned. They are trying to show man the truth.

The way we are living, all of us, is furthest from the truth as possible Do you think the ISIS guys are seeking out truth by beheading people? What kind of distorted view is that? These people are the epitome of a conditioned person. The local Imam who spreads hatred is furthest from his self-imposed religion no matter what he thinks. These people who put on the robe or some other religious symbol are blind and they are guiding more blind people. It will go on and on. Meanwhile, we will call these people "Muslims" because that's what we know them as. I mean, when a person calls himself a Muslim, he must be a Muslim, right?

I think your actions speak much more as to who you are rather than what you claim to be. But words such as Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jew, etc. have been so distorted and misused over the years that they have no meaning today. People have been abusing religion for their personal gain for thousands and thousands of years. It will continue. Calling yourself whatever religion you happen to be is like calling yourself a Redskins fan or whatever. You just belong to a team but it has no meaning.

Sorry for this long post.
Click to expand...

Too levelheaded for many in this place I suspect.
 
J

JumBie

Golden Member
May 2, 2011
1,645
1
81
justoh

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
raildogg said:
Victorian Gray, thanks.

Blue Max, do you believe that by simply reading the Quran, one might become more objective? If a person is not objective to begin with (like the vast majority of people), then how can they possibly actually read it? Add on top of that the fact that these books were written a long time ago and translated and changed over the years. I think they have lost a lot of their true significance due to that. Just because a person recites verses from a Holy Book does not mean he knows or you know what they are. These texts are called Holy for a reason. But I am with you, we need to be clear and open and stop pretending.

blastingcap, nothing is equal because everything is different. Religions are equal in only that they can be a way to live a certain life if one actually uses them in their daily life. I don't know of a single person who actually practices their religion on a daily basis. Going to Church or Mosque one or two days a week means nothing. If a person actually and truthfully lives their religion, then you will see a different world. No one does that and thus this is the world we have.

Yes, there is a variance in religions due to geography and other factors (time, location, etc). But, they all seem to be trying to guide man towards a certain path. The word truth is often mentioned. They are trying to show man the truth.

The way we are living, all of us, is furthest from the truth as possible. Do you think the ISIS guys are seeking out truth by beheading people? What kind of distorted view is that? These people are the epitome of a conditioned person. The local Imam who spreads hatred is furthest from his self-imposed religion no matter what he thinks. These people who put on the robe or some other religious symbol are blind and they are guiding more blind people. It will go on and on. Meanwhile, we will call these people "Muslims" because that's what we know them as. I mean, when a person calls himself a Muslim, he must be a Muslim, right?

I think your actions speak much more as to who you are rather than what you claim to be. But words such as Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jew, etc. have been so distorted and misused over the years that they have no meaning today. People have been abusing religion for their personal gain for thousands and thousands of years. It will continue. Calling yourself whatever religion you happen to be is like calling yourself a Redskins fan or whatever. You just belong to a team but it has no meaning.

Sorry for this long post.
Click to expand...

Stupid.
 
S

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
0
I see Victorian has tapped the shoulders of people in the nearby liberal shill cubicles.
..after self-ownage.
 
A

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,911
4,890
136
I already pointed that there s not a single human who doesnt use religion as a variable geometry item, in the early 2000s i was playing in a jazz/funk/oriental group where we were 5 muslims, or supposed to be so, when eating generaly in restaurants before playing one did drink orange juice and the four others fine french wines, and yet 4 out of 5 did state that they were muslims, number 5 was me and i had no religious stance, actualy i never paid attention to this, i remember that my parents, although believers, rarely talked of religion, they even never took the initiative to learn their children how to pray nor tried to tell them to do a shehada, since the age of 15 i stated that i ll never make the Ramadan and i never did a religious ritual, and that s really not a problem with either my parents or any other muslims, my point, wich is well known by my relatives, is that such a ritual should be done by the wealthy people, poor people have nothing to gain from such a practice, they already know what poorness is, worse, this practice could even lead them to think that there are less favourised people and keep them from progressing in life since they could well be satisfied with their current status thinking that it s not the worse one....

Anyway it s incredible to see all stereotypes that are running in this forum, it s like mediocre people are willfully misrepresenting muslims as a mean to boost their own ego and live in the illusion that they are not that mediocre after all.

As said when i was a child i was the first in my class to master reading and writing french correctly after a mere 3 months of elementary school, at age 6, and despite being in France only since i was 4.5 years, and i was the only one that wasnt native of this country, this remind me a french musician friend of italian/polish descent, he told me that he went to the US in an student exchange when he was 15; to his surprise and despite not being a native english speaker he find himself being the best pupil in the US classes, i just cant imagine that a US student would be more brillant than french students when studying with their own language, if anything this point to the US people being quite mediocre despite living in a first world country, hence this forum extremely low level.
 
R

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Abwx said:
I already pointed that there s not a single human who doesnt use religion as a variable geometry item, in the early 2000s i was playing in a jazz/funk/oriental group where we were 5 muslims, or supposed to be so, when eating generaly in restaurants before playing one did drink orange juice and the four others fine french wines, and yet 4 out of 5 did state that they were muslims, number 5 was me and i had no religious stance, actualy i never paid attention to this, i remember that my parents, although believers, rarely talked of religion, they even never took the initiative to learn their children how to pray nor tried to tell them to do a shehada, since the age of 15 i stated that i ll never make the Ramadan and i never did a religious ritual, and that s really not a problem with either my parents or any other muslims, my point, wich is well known by my relatives, is that such a ritual should be done by the wealthy people, poor people have nothing to gain from such a practice, they already know what poorness is, worse, this practice could even lead them to think that there are less favourised people and keep them from progressing in life since they could well be satisfied with their current status thinking that it s not the worse one....

Anyway it s incredible to see all stereotypes that are running in this forum, it s like mediocre people are willfully misrepresenting muslims as a mean to boost their own ego and live in the illusion that they are not that mediocre after all.

As said when i was a child i was the first in my class to master reading and writing french correctly after a mere 3 months of elementary school, at age 6, and despite being in France only since i was 4.5 years, and i was the only one that wasnt native of this country, this remind me a french musician friend of italian/polish descent, he told me that he went to the US in an student exchange when he was 15; to his surprise and despite not being a native english speaker he find himself being the best pupil in the US classes, i just cant imagine that a US student would be more brillant than french students when studying with their own language, if anything this point to the US people being quite mediocre despite living in a first world country, hence this forum extremely low level.
Click to expand...

Out of your entire post, you used a total of 3 periods. I don't count the incorrect use of ellipsis. The whole first part is a single sentence. I don't know what your first language is, but I assume it uses periods.

Also, I love how you point out the use of stereotypes of Muslims, and then proceed to stereotype Americans. Kudos to you sir, as that could not have been easy to be that ironic.
 
blastingcap

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
realibrad said:
Out of your entire post, you used a total of 3 periods. I don't count the incorrect use of ellipsis. The whole first part is a single sentence. I don't know what your first language is, but I assume it uses periods.

Also, I love how you point out the use of stereotypes of Muslims, and then proceed to stereotype Americans. Kudos to you sir, as that could not have been easy to be that ironic.
Click to expand...

I agree, and Abwx needs to chill out. I don't think most people are saying that most Muslims are bad people. (In fact I think most Muslims are good people--but I think they would be good people with or without Islam, same for other religious people, most of the good ones are going to be good people even without religion. In fact atheists tend to be the most moral of all by some measures.) But the religion seems to have a disproportionate number of crazies, and that merits exploration.
 
Vic

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Blue_Max said:
Don't you get it yet? You're supposed to ignore all evidence or actions and just "listen and believe". They say they're peaceful - that's supposed to be all you need to believe it.


:hmm:
Click to expand...
You are an idiot. The only thing being ignored here is you ignoring the Establishment and Free Exercise clauses in the 1st amendment to the Constitution.
It doesn't make anyone an 'apologist' to point out that what you and the rest of the Islamophobes want (for the government to punish persons on the basis of their religious faith) is not allowed under the highest law of our land.
 
R

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Vic said:
You are an idiot. The only thing being ignored here is you ignoring the Establishment and Free Exercise clauses in the 1st amendment to the Constitution.
It doesn't make anyone an 'apologist' to point out that what you and the rest of the Islamophobes want (for the government to punish persons on the basis of their religious faith) is not allowed under the highest law of our land.
Click to expand...

Whom ever said Muslims should be punished is an ass. There is nothing wrong with criticizing the parts of Islam that condone horrible acts though. I personally don't hold a double standard, and criticize all religions when they say stupid things.
 
S

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
0
thraashman

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,587
126
schmuckley said:
If anyone is looking to display ignorance here:Victorian Gray wins!
willful ignorance, even.
All whilst pointing finger and calling people "bigot" and such. :/
:rolleyes:
http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc.../02/17/stabbing-religion-southfield/23548375/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31502863

There's a lot of "peace" and fellowship going on the last few days in the name of Islam. Bazinga
Click to expand...

At least you're admitting to being a bigot now. So can we move on to a different topic?
 
S

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
0
thraashman said:
At least you're admitting to being a bigot now. So can we move on to a different topic?
Click to expand...


Let me get this straight,there's killings in the name of Islam daily and you want to move on to a different topic,correct?

They are waging war against the Western world yet you want to move on to a different topic.

Feel free;You really haven't contributed anything enlightening or meaningful anyways :)

Let's address the daily killings in the name of Islam 1st.
 
thraashman

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,587
126
schmuckley said:
Let me get this straight,there's killings in the name of Islam daily and you want to move on to a different topic,correct?

They are waging war against the Western world yet you want to move on to a different topic.

Feel free;You really haven't contributed anything enlightening or meaningful anyways :)

Let's address the daily killings in the name of Islam 1st.
Click to expand...

The topic of this thread is and has since the beginning been about how you're a bigot. That's the topic worth moving on from. I've had food poisoning the last few days and the near constant vomiting and shitting I've been doing has been a more enlightening and meaningful contribution to this discussion than anything you've said.
 
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