Religion of Peace

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Nov 25, 2013
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You have openly declared yourself ignorant of the mindset and beliefs of the people who are causing problems in there.

Since you don't understand these people and don't seem to care that you don't understand these people, I don't think you are qualified to recommend any policies regarding them.

In contrast, here's an actual expert on the Middle East: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcDTP-7nleA

as cited in http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

I'm supposed to care?

Where did you study Islam/Islamic history? What degrees might you have that would be considered relevant? What's your research background? Who did you study with/under? What schools did you attend while studying Islam and it's history?
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
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I'm supposed to care?

Where did you study Islam/Islamic history? What degrees might you have that would be considered relevant? What's your research background? Who did you study with/under? What schools did you attend while studying Islam and it's history?

My my how defensive you are. In typical defensive fashion, instead of acknowledging that you know little about Islam, you lash out at others.

The problem is that you have been polluting various threads about Islam with your high-and-mighty proclamations. You have the burden of proving your words. If you can't, then maybe you should stop talking about things that you don't fully comprehend.

I have cited to the Atlantic article above and highly recommend that people who are interested in the Daesh/IS/ISIL/ISIS problem, or Islamic terrorism in general, read it, instead of reading the words of "Victorian Gray." People don't have to listen to me, either (though I'd bet a large sum of money I know more than Victorian Gray knows about Islam). I would be happy if they didn't listen to ANYBODY on these forums (or on Twitter, etc.) and simply read the Atlantic article, especially the parts where the author consulted the expert of experts. http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

OmarF1 is also sometimes on these threads and it'd be interesting to hear his opinion about what ordinary Muslims overseas think about all this.
 
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Nov 25, 2013
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My my how defensive you are. In typical defensive fashion, instead of acknowledging that you know little about Islam, you lash out at others.

The problem is that you have been polluting various threads about Islam with your high-and-mighty proclamations. You have the burden of proving your words. If you can't, then maybe you should stop talking about things that you don't fully comprehend.

I have cited to the Atlantic article above and highly recommend that people who are interested in the Daesh/IS/ISIL/ISIS problem, or Islamic terrorism in general, read it, instead of reading the words of "Victorian Gray." Don't listen to me. Don't listen to Victorian Gray. Read the Atlantic article, especially the parts where the author consulted the expert of experts. http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Not being defensive at all. You think I know nothing about what's going on so I'm simply asking for the background detail of your self-professed knowledge.

btw, someone has been forcing you to read my posts here? That's a shame. Hope you manage to regain your freedom some day.

another btw, you never answered this: "What does an on-line magazine put out by Daesh or a town in Syria (that may be related to a 'final apocalypse') have to do with understanding Islam?"
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
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OmarF1 is also sometimes on these threads and it'd be interesting to hear his opinion about what ordinary Muslims overseas think about all this.
There are plenty of English newspapers from Muslim countries you can read. I've linked to some before, although it got me accused of being an card-carrying flag-waving supporter of ISIS.

Take a look.

Some of them even have comments that sound a lot like the ones I read on here regarding ISIS. Apparently, every single mooselman isn't a jihadi.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Not being defensive at all. You think I know nothing about what's going on so I'm simply asking for the background detail of your self-professed knowledge.

btw, someone has been forcing you to read my posts here? That's a shame. Hope you manage to regain your freedom some day.

another btw, you never answered this: "What does an on-line magazine put out by Daesh or a town in Syria (that may be related to a 'final apocalypse') have to do with understanding Islam?"
still in denial I see.....
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
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There are plenty of English newspapers from Muslim countries you can read. I've linked to some before, although it got me accused of being an card-carrying flag-waving supporter of ISIS.

Take a look.

Some of them even have comments that sound a lot like the ones I read on here regarding ISIS. Apparently, every single mooselman isn't a jihadi.

News in many countries is slanted; think of where the news channels get their money from. Oftentimes it's govt-funded. I would rather hear from those on the street.

Also I've said many times that most Muslims are perfectly decent humans--but because they are perfectly decent humans in the first place, not because of their religion. I think it's a disingenuous to think that every Muslim is a devil or that there are no Muslim extremists, and those who argue about that are wasting time on strawmen.
 

blastingcap

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Sep 16, 2010
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still in denial I see.....

Yeah, he's not worth responding to. He sure talks a lot (in this thread alone, 53 posts and counting) for someone who doesn't know what he's talking about and wants me to spoonfeed him as to why it's important to understand a group's perspective if you want to defeat them. And if you question his spam he gets defensive and tries to deflect attention away from how HE has the burden of proving his claims.
 
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Nov 25, 2013
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Yeah, he's not worth responding to. He sure talks a lot for someone who doesn't know what he's talking about and wants me to spoonfeed him as to why it's important to understand a group's perspective if you want to defeat them.

So, you don't actually have a background of studying Islam/Islamic history then? No degrees, no studying with any specialists, no research background, no university specialist programs?

Ok.
 

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
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So, you don't actually have a background of studying Islam/Islamic history then? No degrees, no studying with any specialists, no research background, no university specialist programs?

Ok.

One doesn't need a Masters or Phd in a particular subject to have a basic informed knowledge of it.All one needs is proper research/reading comprehension/deductive skills.
It's painfully obvious you have none of the above.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
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So, you don't actually have a background of studying Islam/Islamic history then? No degrees, no studying with any specialists, no research background, no university specialist programs?

Ok.

Because being informed on a subject is unimportant. You need to have a formal education in Islam and Islamic history to be qualified to be able to understand the situation. Its not possible to understand the situation on the same level as those with a formal background, because its totally impossible to learn like they do right?
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
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I lack a formal education and credentialing in scatology and thus am unable to make a reasonable conclusion about whether eating shit is or is not good for me, apparently.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Yeah, he's not worth responding to. He sure talks a lot (in this thread alone, 53 posts and counting) for someone who doesn't know what he's talking about and wants me to spoonfeed him as to why it's important to understand a group's perspective if you want to defeat them. And if you question his spam he gets defensive and tries to deflect attention away from how HE has the burden of proving his claims.
I agree!! Victorian Gray is all that and much more!!
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
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I'm supposed to care?

Where did you study Islam/Islamic history? What degrees might you have that would be considered relevant? What's your research background? Who did you study with/under? What schools did you attend while studying Islam and it's history?

nope
 

inachu

Platinum Member
Aug 22, 2014
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You do not need a background in any jewish or muslim study. Just google the dam stuff and you will see neoconservatism/zionism is the atheist version of judaism.

The main tenet of Judaism is for a spiritual state and not a political state.
Jewish and muslim historians will agree that for over 2,000 years both sides have agreed that Allah and GOD are one and the same and the ancient manuscripts from boths sides agree as they both stemmed from Abraham. So that is pure logic and pure history. Anything else is pure lies so you can send your money to the jew zionist ON ANGELS WINGS so you can send russian jews to israel.

Zionism is a european cult started in the 1930's-40's
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
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you do not need a background in any jewish or muslim study. Just google the dam stuff and you will see neoconservatism/zionism is the atheist version of judaism.

The main tenet of judaism is for a spiritual state and not a political state.
Jewish and muslim historians will agree that for over 2,000 both sides have agreed that allah and god are one and the same and the ancient manuscripts from boths sides agree as they both stemmed from abraham. So that is pure logic and pure history. Anything else is pure lies so you can send your money to the jew zionist on angels wings so you can send russian jews to israel.

Zionism is a european cult started in the 1930's-40's

lolwut?
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
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I lack a formal education and credentialing in scatology and thus am unable to make a reasonable conclusion about whether eating shit is or is not good for me, apparently.

That's a shitty analogy. ;)

It's more like if you are a lawyer and don't understand exactly all the complex physics behind some rocket or whatever, you can rely on expert witnesses. You can also argue the facts (that guy's rocket landed on X). As well as pure logic (if in a line you have two points A and C, then a point in-between them B, must be crossed en route, whenever you go from A to C).

In this thread I have argued facts. For instance if people talk about petting dogs, I cited to the Malaysia newspaper as counterevidence that Muslims are all so cool with petting dogs. I've also linked to surveys in Islamic countries (though such surveys are undoubtedly flawed, they are all we've got and hell, if a country is influencing its citizens so much that they feel compelled to lie on such surveys then that itself says something).

I have also cited indirectly to scholars who DO know about Islam and the Quran. The guy cited in the Atlantic article is an expert among experts, for instance. And though this didn't make it into the Atlantic article, the fact of the matter is that there is indeed solid basis for Daesh's actions not only in the Quran but also the sunnah and hadith. They may have overreached on some things, but the core of their belief is in fact quite Islamic, and it's hard to say that their interpretation of Islam is any less valid than others'. This doesn't mean most Muslims are bad people; one could argue that many Muslims aren't that serious about their religion, the same way that many Catholics aren't very serious (by taking the Lord's name in vain, stealing MP3s, going against the Pope's advice on contraceptives, not attending church or praying that regularly, etc.).

I've also argued on logic. E.g., saying a book was the word of God and was not modified and should not be modified encourages sticking to "version 1.0" reductionism/fundamentalism and never upgrading or adjusting to modernity.

Therefore I'd argue that zero of my posts in this thread require decades of toil studying sharia law. I base them on facts, empirical evidence, and the words of independent scholars.

Meanwhile we have this guy spending much of his time arguing that others are "bigots." http://forums.anandtech.com/search.php?searchid=2340814&pp=25

He criticizes others by saying they are "bigots" who have "misinterpreted" Islam. The implication is that HE has spent years studying Islam and is some sort of expert on Islam. This seems doubtful given his post history which demonstrates no deep understanding of Islam himself. But what is REALLY damning, in my opinion, is how he doesn't even care to address his knowledge deficiency. He literally does not know and does not seem to care about WHY people are doing the things they are doing in Daesh. Literally. See his posts about how he doesn't care about the Dabiq prophecy and doesn't seem to "get it"; that understanding an enemy would be valuable in finding ways to combat it.

When he's finally called out on this, he gets defensive. Instead of addressing how he is not an authority on Islam and how his "don't know don't care" attitude is problematic, he deflects and attempts to shift the focus instead. No, we won't play that game. Let's focus on how this guy calls other bigots and on what basis he does so.
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
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After reading that Atlantic article, I think I understand the plan for ISIS now. The surrounding countries believe that if they go to war with ISIS, it legitimizes the caliphate and makes the warring country the enemy. If ISIS cannot expand, then its not a caliphate, and it falls apart. People stop going to ISIS and it collapses.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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One doesn't need a Masters or Phd in a particular subject to have a basic informed knowledge of it.All one needs is proper research/reading comprehension/deductive skills.
It's painfully obvious you have none of the above.

Or, like you, simply read Glen Beck.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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Because being informed on a subject is unimportant. You need to have a formal education in Islam and Islamic history to be qualified to be able to understand the situation. Its not possible to understand the situation on the same level as those with a formal background, because its totally impossible to learn like they do right?

Not what I'm saying.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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When he's finally called out on this, he gets defensive. Instead of addressing how he is not an authority on Islam and how his "don't know don't care" attitude is problematic, he deflects and attempts to shift the focus instead. No, we won't play that game. Let's focus on how this guy calls other bigots and on what basis he does so.

Thanks for the lovely misrepresentation of me. It's truly touching.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
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No one reads or looks at anything with total objectivity. No matter how much one says they are objective in looking at something, they are not. They are conditioned. They look at the thing with their biased eyes or hear with their biased ears.

This is true for anything, including religion. A certain man will look at events in the world a certain way no matter what the reality is.

Our conditioning, that has come from years of schooling, from our friends and parents, society, media, etc. will never allow us to look at anything openly and freely. The more we age, the more conditioned we get. I know this because I am a conditioned man.

So someone who goes studying Islam (or any other religion) will do so with a tremendous bias. Plus, you can only learn so much from scripture due to several factors. A lot of these texts are hard to decipher for the average man. You cannot read them literally. It takes a certain man to truly understand religion. By a certain man I don't mean an Imam or a Priest - they certainly don't seem to know based on what's going on currently.

Like it's been said before: guns don't kill people, people kill people. It's also true in this case - religion doesn't kill people, people kill people. As far as religion influencing people: I don't buy it. People take advantage of everything, including religion. They twist it to fit their own agenda. Other people are simply misguided and have nothing else going on in their lives. Religion fills a void in our otherwise empty lives. But this religion is only a form of distraction. 99.999% of people will never know true religion. The stuff you see is only a distraction disguised as religion.

A truly religious man does not wear his religion on his sleeve. He does not talk about it casually.

He does not wear a religious garb while living an immoral life as so much of this hypocritical world does.
 
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Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
No one reads or looks at anything with total objectivity. No matter how much one says they are objective in looking at something, they are not. They are conditioned. They look at the thing with their biased eyes or hear with their biased ears.

This is true for anything, including religion. A certain man will look at events in the world a certain way no matter what the reality is.

Our conditioning, that has come from years of schooling, from our friends and parents, society, media, etc. will never allow us to look at anything openly and freely. The more we age, the more conditioned we get. I know this because I am a conditioned man.

So someone who goes studying Islam (or any other religion) will do so with a tremendous bias. Plus, you can only learn so much from scripture due to several factors. A lot of these texts are hard to decipher for the average man. You cannot read them literally. It takes a certain man to truly understand religion. By a certain man I don't mean an Imam or a Priest - they certainly don't seem to know based on what's going on currently.

Like it's been said before: guns don't kill people, people kill people. It's also true in this case - religion doesn't kill people, people kill people. As far as religion influencing people: I don't buy it. People take advantage of everything, including religion. They twist it to fit their own agenda. Other people are simply misguided and have nothing else going on in their lives. Religion fills a void in our otherwise empty lives. But this religion is only a form of distraction. 99.999% of people will never know true religion. The stuff you see is only a distraction disguised as religion.

A truly religious man does not wear his religion on his sleeve. He does not talk about it casually.

He does not wear a religious garb while living an immoral life as so much of this hypocritical world does.

Nicely put. :thumbsup: