Religion of Peace

[Omar F1]

It's merely your opinion that I'm intolerant at all for daring to question islam at all.


I think, if anything, the luvvy-duvvy opinions expressed by you, VG, and others are really just a mask to cover fear. Somewhere, deep down, you know that groups like muslims are likely to go into a frothing rage and become violent for so much as asking the question of whether they're the "religion of peace" as they claim to be.

Since you know that negative reaction is likely, you believe (as they do) that to ask such a question is "rude" "intolerant" "bigoted" "blasphemous" or otherwise "wrong". By choosing that stance, you actually justify the violence that comes after asking an "offensive" question.

I'm trying to get below the surface and actually address why that violent action is NOT justified and what could possibly done to address it (besides merely giving in to every demand.)

Of course you have the full right to critique and throw all kinds of claims/accusations (and it's really nice to know others opinion), but the main problem is that most people doesn't have a complete picture about the subject, not even half of it. But what worse really is, that I'm not aware of any study to give such complete and unbiased picture.

 

[schmuckley]

Speaking of change, we really did present some like the abandon of slavery and "gizyah", there is not a single Islamic country that still implement it.


I'd like to point out one thing, for the specific rules and acts of Islam we usually take it from al-Hadith. Some people could easily go and construe al-Quran as much as they like, but the fact stays that the prophet says and deeds are very important constraints.



Also you'd find other Arabic opinions that the Ottoman empire and subsequent events followed was a major reason for the current situation of Arabs.

What about Hamas-controlled Palestine? http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Or is that not a recognized country?

 

[Omar F1]

I'm curious what your opinion of this is.

As far as my limited knowledge, the Arabs had faced oppression, lack of education and services especially on the last years of Ottoman's era.
Don't forget their infamous expansions, which led eventually to their end.

Honestly I intend to research the subject, lack of unbiased resources is a problem though.

 

[Omar F1]

What about Hamas-controlled Palestine? http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Or is that not a recognized country?

Honestly I'm not aware and it was never announced that Hamas is still dealing with Gizyah or slavery, the article point to that subject?

 

[Orignal Earl]

It's merely your opinion that I'm intolerant at all for daring to question islam at all.


I think, if anything, the luvvy-duvvy opinions expressed by you, VG, and others are really just a mask to cover fear. Somewhere, deep down, you know that groups like muslims are likely to go into a frothing rage and become violent for so much as asking the question of whether they're the "religion of peace" as they claim to be.

Since you know that negative reaction is likely, you believe (as they do) that to ask such a question is "rude" "intolerant" "bigoted" "blasphemous" or otherwise "wrong". By choosing that stance, you actually justify the violence that comes after asking an "offensive" question.

"He wouldn't have become violent if the other guy hadn't provoked him with his rude/intolerant/bigoted/blasphemous comment!"

You think this is the only place I get to see this kind of thinking? It's the most common method of thought on the planet!

I'm trying to get below the surface and actually address why that violent action is NOT justified and what could possibly done to address it (besides merely giving in to every demand.)


It's interesting how similar the methodologies of islam and feminism are, as well as the end-goals of totalitarianism. No surprise I object to both, since I don't want to live under the totalitarian state of either.


BTW, good debate linked a few messages up... 25 minutes into it so far. Pity the muslim spokesman decided to change the rules of the debate for himself right from the get-go, but listening to what he has to say. So far, he's only dancing around the subject and not addressing it head-on.

Muslims never called their religion "the religion of peace", that all really started after 911.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_of_Peace

Muslims would love to discuss their religion with you as far as I know

Check and see if there is an Islamic Center or such around you.
Find yourself a couple of different Mosques in your city and walk right in, treat it like you would a Church
Just tell them you are interested in their religion and would like to discuss it with them
You read their Holy Book, now go meet some in person and compare notes

 

[schmuckley]

Honestly I'm not aware and it was never announced that Hamas is still dealing with Gizyah or slavery, the article point to that subject?

It's in their charter which is what I linked.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

No article..just the code they live by.
Their version of The Constitution.

 

[JEDIYoda]

You read their Holy Book, now go meet some in person and compare notes

Only go to a country that is not Americanized and seek out a Muslim mosque......see what transpires...

 

[Orignal Earl]

Only go to a country that is not Americanized and seek out a Muslim mosque......see what transpires...

Do American Muslims follow an Americanized version of Islam?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Only go to a country that is not Americanized and seek out a Muslim mosque......see what transpires...

Apparently, you take your shoes off.

"According to AFP, after the top US diplomat removed his shoes outside the Istiqlal mosque in the heart of Jakarta, he took a 20-minute tour through the vast building and was accompanied by grand imam Kyai al-Hajj Ali Mustafa Yaqub."

http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2014/02/122873/john-kerry-visits-largest-mosque-in-south-east-asia/

 

[JEDIYoda]

Do American Muslims follow an Americanized version of Islam? stop being silly@@!! You should know better!

You know better than that.....American Muslim have it relatively easy as far as being Muslim goes.....

As I said previously most Muslims who live in America just want to work and blend in and be a part of OUR Society.......

Now you as an American go to a Muslim Country and try to be American in a Muslim country.......

 

[JEDIYoda]

Apparently, you take your shoes off.

"According to AFP, after the top US diplomat removed his shoes outside the Istiqlal mosque in the heart of Jakarta, he took a 20-minute tour through the vast building and was accompanied by grand imam Kyai al-Hajj Ali Mustafa Yaqub."

apparently you really do know little about being Muslim..... You need to do your research and not post until you know what you are talking about....Muslims in Morocco.....Huge difference...........
If you have never been to Morocco then you obviously are very unaware...

 

[Orignal Earl]

You know better than that.....American Muslim have it relatively easy as far as being Muslim goes.....

As I said previously most Muslims who live in America just want to work and blend in and be a part of OUR Society.......

Now you as an American go to a Muslim Country and try to be American in a Muslim country.......

What happened to you on your many visits to Muslim Countries?

 

[schmuckley]

Only go to a country that is not Americanized and seek out a Muslim mosque......see what transpires...

Possibly death.

 

[Blue_Max]

Sorry but the crap that you post shows that you know absolutely nothing about Islam or Muslims and you desire to know nothing more.

You are the epitome of that class of folks known as willfully ignorant bigots.

Sorry to break this to you, but barfing out the same words over and over doesn't make it true. Not about me, not about muslims, not about feminism. You're wrong.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Sorry to break this to you, but barfing out the same words over and over doesn't make it true. Not about me, not about muslims, not about feminism. You're wrong.

No, I'm not.

Boo!

Boo!

 

[Victorian Gray]

apparently you really do know little about being Muslim..... You need to do your research and not post until you know what you are talking about....Muslims in Morocco.....Huge difference...........
If you have never been to Morocco then you obviously are very unaware...

Yep, sounds scary, glad they warn you away from Moroccan mosques if you are a tourist

"The Morocco mosques might be mostly off-limits for non-Muslims, but that doesn't mean that they don't figure among the country's top tourist attractions. Some of the mosques in Morocco are open to non-Muslims, and getting a look at the interior can be very insightful. The Tin Mal Mosque is one of the most renowned mosques in the country that is open to non-Muslims, and many tourists understandably add it to their itineraries. The same goes for the huge Hassan II Mosque. Whether they are open to non-Muslims or not, the various mosques in this fascinating northern Africa nation figure among the country's most iconic landmarks and can be a joy to admire."

http://www.destination360.com/africa/morocco/mosques

 

[JEDIYoda]

What happened to you on your many visits to Muslim Countries?

Considering I blend in because of my skin color and know th language fluently nothing happens to me.
Now you go as an American and claim to want to know about the language and see what happens...rofl..hahaha...rofl...

 

[JEDIYoda]

"The Morocco mosques might be mostly off-limits for non-Muslims, but that doesn't mean that they don't figure among the country's top tourist attractions. Some of the mosques in Morocco are open to non-Muslims, and getting a look at the interior can be very insightful. The Tin Mal Mosque is one of the most renowned mosques in the country that is open to non-Muslims, and many tourists understandably add it to their itineraries. The same goes for the huge Hassan II Mosque. Whether they are open to non-Muslims or not, the various mosques in this fascinating northern Africa nation figure among the country's most iconic landmarks and can be a joy to admire."

http://www.destination360.com/africa/morocco/mosques

Changing the subject......like I said you know so little about Muslims that you use Morocco as an example...what else do you know about Morocco and religious freedoms that most Muslim countries do not have??

Using the internet to appear all smart and aware doesn`t count....

 

[Victorian Gray]

Changing the subject......like I said you know so little about Muslims that you use Morocco as an example...what else do you know about Morocco and religious freedoms that most Muslim countries do not have??

Using the internet to appear all smart and aware doesn`t count....

Pay attention, *you* brought up Morocco:

"apparently you really do know little about being Muslim..... You need to do your research and not post until you know what you are talking about....Muslims in Morocco.....Huge difference...........
If you have never been to Morocco then you obviously are very unaware... "

And I'm "using the internet to appear all smart and aware"? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, you're a funny guy.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Pay attention, *you* brought up Morocco:
"apparently you really do know little about being Muslim..... You need to do your research and not post until you know what you are talking about....Muslims in Morocco.....Huge difference...........
If you have never been to Morocco then you obviously are very unaware... "

And I'm "using the internet to appear all smart and aware"? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahaha, you're a funny guy.
__________________

What I do not like is people who through no fault of their own who are prone to not remember........
You posted that picture from --- drum roll please -- http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2014...uth-east-asia/

Morocco world news......now that we have established that you tried to sidestep the issue by using a country that has religious liberties to prove that Muslims were all good people.....

YES!! There are some good Muslims!! duh...just like there were some good Genghis Khan types....

That's the price of living in Morocco....get along or leave. Plain and simple....

You really do need to get off the internet for a bit and travel on your own and experience these things first hand.......in their country.....such as countries in the Middle East...etc....

Don`t you just hate it when you get busted lying??

 

[Victorian Gray]

What I do not like is liars.....
You posted that picture from --- drum roll please -- http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2014...uth-east-asia/

Morocco world news......now that we have established that you tried to sidestep the issue by using a country that has religious liberties to prove that Muslims were all good people.....

You really do need to get off the internet for a bit and travel on your own and experience these things first hand.......in their country.....such as countries in the Middle East...etc....

Don`t you just hate it when you get busted lying??

My quote:

"According to AFP, after the top US diplomat removed his shoes outside the Istiqlal mosque in the heart of Jakarta, he took a 20-minute tour through the vast building and was accompanied by grand imam Kyai al-Hajj Ali Mustafa Yaqub."

What country is Jakarta in? I'll give you a hint, it's not a country in Africa.

The only connection to Morocco is the fact that i happened to use an article and picture that is apparently some kind of on-line Moroccan news site. You were the one to raise Morroco as an issue in and of itself.

I would suggest:

A) learn to read
B) learn to comprehend what you read
C) stop acting like a 14 year old in jr. high

Oh yeah, call me a liar without reason? Fuck off jackass.

 

[Abwx]

Pay attention, *you* brought up Morocco:

"apparently you really do know little about being Muslim..... You need to do your research and not post until you know what you are talking about....Muslims in Morocco.....Huge difference...........
If you have never been to Morocco then you obviously are very unaware... "

And I'm "using the internet to appear all smart and aware"? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, you're a funny guy.

Obviously this troll has never been in Morrocco, for the record it s filled with french retirees, jewish community is quite powerfull there and despite being a very poor country insecurity is no worse than in the US.

According to the French website Retraite-etranger.fr, Morocco ranked the world’s top country for French senior citizens to retire.

http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/201...ement-destination-for-french-senior-citizens/

 

[Orignal Earl]

Considering I blend in because of my skin color and know th language fluently nothing happens to me.
Now you go as an American and claim to want to know about the language and see what happens...rofl..hahaha...rofl...

I'm Canadian, so I got enough French skills to get me by in Morocco
Bragging up being an American in most countries probably is not advised

 

[raildogg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMraxhd9Z9Q -- Christopher Hitchens and Tariq Ramadan Debate: Is Islam a Religion of Peace?

I haven't clicked that link.

How the heck can any religion be a "Religion of Peace" when none of its members are peaceful? This goes for all religions. That is why there is so much hate and conflict in this world. Everyone calls themselves by this or that religion label yet no one actually practices their so-called religion on a daily, continuous basis. That is called hypocrisy and we humans are totally guilty of it.

(Nice flag your wrapping yourself in, BTW).

If your going to call yourself a Muslim or a Christian, at least try to act like one. Wearing a Cross or wearing a certain piece of cloth only carries so much weight.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I haven't clicked that link.

How the heck can any religion be a "Religion of Peace" when none of its members are peaceful? This goes for all religions. That is why there is so much hate and conflict in this world. Everyone calls themselves by this or that religion label yet no one actually practices their so-called religion on a daily, continuous basis. That is called hypocrisy and we humans are totally guilty of it.

(Nice flag your wrapping yourself in, BTW).

If your going to call yourself a Muslim or a Christian, at least try to act like one. Wearing a Cross or wearing a certain piece of cloth only carries so much weight.

I only poste that link because I felt it was applicable to this thread.......wrapping myself in a flag?? Most people on these forums know how I feel about the whole Muslim thing.....

They say there is no difference between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle east.....
Then you get some goofball posting about Muslims in Morocco when we all should know that as a country Morocco does a lot to promote religious freedom.......compared to any of the countries in the Middle east!

I will say this again -- the Muslims that I know of and talk with who live in America just want to liv in Peace and worship as they see fit!


An honest Muslim will tell you there is a huge difference between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle east!

It does not matter the religion -- there will always be a few who take things to extremes even in the USA!!

My quote:

"According to AFP, after the top US diplomat removed his shoes outside the Istiqlal mosque in the heart of Jakarta, he took a 20-minute tour through the vast building and was accompanied by grand imam Kyai al-Hajj Ali Mustafa Yaqub."

What country is Jakarta in? I'll give you a hint, it's not a country in Africa.

The only connection to Morocco is the fact that i happened to use an article and picture that is apparently some kind of on-line Moroccan news site. You were the one to raise Morroco as an issue in and of itself.

I would suggest:

A) learn to read
B) learn to comprehend what you read
C) stop acting like a 14 year old in jr. high
Oh yeah, call me a liar without reason? Fuck off jackass.

You did lie....you brought up Moroco......sorry that you claim not to have...I was not the one who used the Morocco link......so sorry.....but you did succeed in diverting the discussion -- good for you!!