Religion of Peace

[schmuckley]

Which anti-Muslim site did you dredge your 'knowledge' up from.

Once again I would ask you to please stop pretending that you know anything about Islam or Muslims other than the propaganda you eat up so avidly.

I can't imagine how bigots like you manage to live with all your angers and fears. Your stomach must be in constant turmoil what with all the Muslims and feminists threatening to chop off one body part or another.

Your ability to deny is outstanding!
In the face of how it really is ..you have the ability to say it's something entirely different.
wait..Is that what they call psychotic?
Oh..I see you posted "bigot" again.
How many times is that now?

 

[schmuckley]

As usual and unfortunately, this proves that you guys really and honestly have no idea who Mohamed was, and what he had endured during his limited life after the prophecy.
The problem is I can point you to some books to read about his biography but they're all in Arabic, I'm not aware of any reputable English translations.

Continuous reading of conspiracy articles without reading from the other side won't make you any progress, it would only keep building up more unnecessary hatred.

Mohammed was a pedophile psychopath.
His M.O. was killing was killing,raping,and murdering.
There's plenty of history books to confirm this..in English,Greek,Italian..Spanish..

 

[nickqt]

Mohammed was a pedophile psychopath.
His M.O. was killing was killing,raping,and murdering.
There's plenty of history books to confirm this..in English,Greek,Italian..Spanish..

Mohammed was just a man. A prophet.

What you just accused Mohammed of could easily be used against the God of the Old Testament. Perhaps even the New Testament too, depending on Mary's age at the time God knocked her up without her permission.

Have you come up with a solution to the Muslim question yet? You're clearly concerned about 'em.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Your ability to deny is outstanding!
In the face of how it really is ..you have the ability to say it's something entirely different.
wait..Is that what they call psychotic?
Oh..I see you posted "bigot" again.
How many times is that now?

Looks like, walks like, quacks like, yeah, you're a bigot. And, an ignorant one to boot. Got some more Beckian 'history' for us all? Tell us more about stuff you know nothing of.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Mohammed was just a man. A prophet.

Just like all the prophets that Islam shares with Christianity, they even see Jesus as a prophet as well. So for Islam to be evil all that Christianity is based on is equally as evil.

 

[blastingcap]

Just like all the prophets that Islam shares with Christianity, they even see Jesus as a prophet as well. So for Islam to be evil all that Christianity is based on is equally as evil.

If Christianity = A
If Islam = A+B
And if we are saying A+B = evil
Then even if 100% of the evil is clustered in B, we must assume that A = evil. "Equally" evil, in fact.

According to you.

Is that your Final Answer?

(Hint: I hope you are just joking and that you don't really mean what you said.)

And by the way just because they share the same Abrahamic origin doesn't mean they view the pre-Mohammed stuff the same. Mohammed claimed that the original teachings (i.e., Christianity, Judaism) had been corrupted.

 

[alzan]

Mohammed was a pedophile psychopath.
His M.O. was killing was killing,raping,and murdering.
There's plenty of history books to confirm this..in English,Greek,Italian..Spanish..

You realize of course that in Mohammed's time the average lifespan was about 37 years. He might have married a seven year old but the marriage wasn't consummated till she was 11 or 12.

You can use the word pedophile all you want but you're using it according to 20th century lifespans and criteria, not 8th century.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Your denial is nothing short of astounding, but at least you're consistent about it. Deny then insult.

The truth is not an insult. When you stop acting like an ignorant bigot, you won't be treated as an ignorant bigot.

 

[blastingcap]

You realize of course that in Mohammed's time the average lifespan was about 37 years.

Assuming that number is accurate, one wonders if it would have been higher if not for all the wars and beheadings going on.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Just like all the prophets that Islam shares with Christianity, they even see Jesus as a prophet as well. So for Islam to be evil all that Christianity is based on is equally as evil.

One bad apple.....

 

[Londo_Jowo]

One bad apple.....

Hmmm sorta like the whole bunch of bad apples known as the IDF eh???

 

[Omar F1]

The problem with Islam is that it may have been quite good in its day as Islam version 1.0, but it doesn't allow for evolution as well as alternatives. It's a problem with the fundamental tenets of saying a particular book was the word of God and has not been modified.

So you wind up with a religion that may have been good for its time which was 1400 years ago, as version 1.0. But that version 1.0 is incapable of coping with the modern world, and attempts to modernize the religion into v1.1 and beyond are met with resistance and accusations of infidelity to the Original v1.0.

This was one of the reasons why the closest atheist Ataturk basically tried to get rid of Islam in Turkey. He viewed it as backwards-looking, with too much emphasis on memorization and not enough on creativity.

Basically Islam is like Palm's WebOS. Good for its time, but the rest of the world moved on to iOS, Android, etc.

I understand your point, but I'd say it's people minds which should evolve and adapt, not the Islamic principles. Unfortunately, I see most the Muslims won't accept that currently we're living at the bottom of the food chain, when it comes to technology and defense abilities, and many other matters as well.

I could give many examples, I'm sure you already noticed many of them already.

Basically Islam is like Palm's WebOS. Good for its time, but the rest of the world moved on to iOS, Android

I think it's wrong analogy, you're comparing an old OS to newer ones, yet there are no newer religions after Islam came, as it's stated in our book it was the last release by the God.
Meanwhile, the people from all different religions are becoming less religious more than ever in history.

It's a problem with the fundamental tenets of saying a particular book was the word of God and has not been modified.

If you're in doubt about that, I'd say just take a look at how many Islamic groups are there, Sunni and Shiites as main competitors for example, we all agreed to the same set of book throughout the centuries. Taking a look over our many and deep differences, I'd say this is a miracle in itself for the Quran.

 

[blastingcap]

I understand your point, but I'd say it's people minds which should evolve and adapt, not the Islamic principles. Unfortunately, I see most the Muslims won't accept that currently we're living at the bottom of the food chain, when it comes to technology and defense abilities, and many other matters as well.

I could give many examples, I'm sure you already noticed many of them already.


I think it's wrong analogy, you're comparing an old OS to newer ones, yet there are no newer religions after Islam came, as it's stated in our book it was the last release by the God.
Meanwhile, the people from all different religions are becoming less religious more than ever in history.



If you're in doubt about that, I'd say just take a look at how many Islamic groups are there, Sunni and Shiites as main competitors for example, we all agreed to the same set of book throughout the centuries. Taking a look over our many and deep differences, I'd say this is a miracle in itself for the Quran.

Yeah I agree my analogy was not that great. I also made a typo, I meant to write "closet atheist Ataturk," not "closest atheist Ataturk."

Speaking of Ataturk, his incomplete secularization of Turkey, promotion of better schooling for males and females, etc. has made Turkey one of the few large, stable majority-Muslim countries in the region despite having no major oil/gas deposits.

In that sense, I think Turkey may be a model for other majority-Muslim countries to follow. Well, maybe not so much right now as Erdogan blatantly violates his own Constitutional prohibitions on the President campaigning, and covers up the corruption in his administration, and tries to roll back some of the Kemalist reforms. But I mean Turkish cultural change in general.

What I meant by the problem of saying a book was the word of God and was not modified and should not be modified, is that it gives room for reductionists like Daesh (and Kharijites and pretty much anyone, actually) to scream at others that they are not following the literal word of God and are kuffar. It's like the reductionists who scream at others that they are not following the US Constitution's literal words, but worse, because at least the Constitution can be amended to clarify ambiguities and better mesh with modern-day realities (e.g., technologies that do what the founding fathers of the US could not have anticipated), whereas in Islam you can't alter the Quran so you have to do it through the hadith and sunnah and as we all know those are not universally interpreted the same or accepted the same.

 

[Omar F1]

Mohammed was a pedophile psychopath.
His M.O. was killing was killing,raping,and murdering.
There's plenty of history books to confirm this..in English,Greek,Italian..Spanish..

You must read our books if you're serious about the subject, and please, read the whole story to understand the complete picture.
You definitely didn't done so.

Sorry, but you remind me of his own people when he started to spread the word, with exception that they never ever called him rapist neither pedophile, you think you have a better overview about him than his enemies back then?


About war issue, he first came peacefully with evidence and miracles as clear as a summer sun in the middle of the day, and even some of them did hear al-Quran and admitted that it's not the creation of humans nor it's any kind of poetry, yet they attacked, tortured, insulted him. What would you ask him to do after all, of course he had to fight his way when it's deemed necessary.
Yet, he given one of the greatest examples of pardon and forgiveness in the history of mankind when he returned back to Makkah after all the years. (you may like to read about "Fath Makkah")

 

[JEDIYoda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMraxhd9Z9Q -- Christopher Hitchens and Tariq Ramadan Debate: Is Islam a Religion of Peace?

 

[Blue_Max]

The truth is not an insult. When you stop acting like an ignorant bigot, you won't be treated as an ignorant bigot.

Ignorance is the absence of knowledge.
A bigot is a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

You fully qualify on both counts, far moreso than I who have studied the subject.

 

[nickqt]

Ignorance is the absence of knowledge.
A bigot is a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

You fully qualify on both counts, far moreso than I who have studied the subject.

Yes, libruuls are intolerant for not tolerating the intolerant.

 

[Blue_Max]

Yes, libruuls are intolerant for not tolerating the intolerant.

It's merely your opinion that I'm intolerant at all for daring to question islam at all.


I think, if anything, the luvvy-duvvy opinions expressed by you, VG, and others are really just a mask to cover fear. Somewhere, deep down, you know that groups like muslims are likely to go into a frothing rage and become violent for so much as asking the question of whether they're the "religion of peace" as they claim to be.

Since you know that negative reaction is likely, you believe (as they do) that to ask such a question is "rude" "intolerant" "bigoted" "blasphemous" or otherwise "wrong". By choosing that stance, you actually justify the violence that comes after asking an "offensive" question.

"He wouldn't have become violent if the other guy hadn't provoked him with his rude/intolerant/bigoted/blasphemous comment!"

You think this is the only place I get to see this kind of thinking? It's the most common method of thought on the planet!

I'm trying to get below the surface and actually address why that violent action is NOT justified and what could possibly done to address it (besides merely giving in to every demand.)


It's interesting how similar the methodologies of islam and feminism are, as well as the end-goals of totalitarianism. No surprise I object to both, since I don't want to live under the totalitarian state of either.


BTW, good debate linked a few messages up... 25 minutes into it so far. Pity the muslim spokesman decided to change the rules of the debate for himself right from the get-go, but listening to what he has to say. So far, he's only dancing around the subject and not addressing it head-on.

 

[nickqt]

It's merely your opinion that I'm intolerant at all for daring to question islam at all.


I think, if anything, the luvvy-duvvy opinions expressed by you, VG, and others are really just a mask to cover fear. Somewhere, deep down, you know that groups like muslims are likely to go into a frothing rage and become violent for so much as asking the question of whether they're the "religion of peace" as they claim to be.

Since you know that negative reaction is likely, you believe (as they do) that to ask such a question is "rude" "intolerant" "bigoted" "blasphemous" or otherwise "wrong". By choosing that stance, you actually justify the violence that comes after asking an "offensive" question.

"He wouldn't have become violent if the other guy hadn't provoked him with his rude/intolerant/bigoted/blasphemous comment!"

You think this is the only place I get to see this kind of thinking? It's the most common method of thought on the planet!

I'm trying to get below the surface and actually address why that violent action is NOT justified and what could possibly done to address it (besides merely giving in to every demand.)


It's interesting how similar the methodologies of islam and feminism are, as well as the end-goals of totalitarianism. No surprise I object to both, since I don't want to live under the totalitarian state of either.


BTW, good debate linked a few messages up... 25 minutes into it so far. Pity the muslim spokesman decided to change the rules of the debate for himself right from the get-go, but listening to what he has to say. So far, he's only dancing around the subject and not addressing it head-on.

Right. Those of us not demonizing the majority of Muslims as evil murders are deathly afraid of Muslims. Makes sense.

 

[Blue_Max]

Right. Those of us not demonizing the majority of Muslims as evil murders are deathly afraid of Muslims. Makes sense.

I never made that claim - you just did. Let me know when you're ready to have an actual, honest discussion.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Ignorance is the absence of knowledge.
A bigot is a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

You fully qualify on both counts, far moreso than I who have studied the subject.

Yeah, I guess you could stretch the meaning of study to include blindly accepting and regurgitating propaganda from people pushing an anti-Islamic agenda.

Sorry but the crap that you post shows that you know absolutely nothing about Islam or Muslims and you desire to know nothing more.

You are the epitome of that class of folks known as willfully ignorant bigots.

 

[Victorian Gray]

It's merely your opinion that I'm intolerant at all for daring to question islam at all.


I think, if anything, the luvvy-duvvy opinions expressed by you, VG, and others are really just a mask to cover fear. Somewhere, deep down, you know that groups like muslims are likely to go into a frothing rage and become violent for so much as asking the question of whether they're the "religion of peace" as they claim to be.

Since you know that negative reaction is likely, you believe (as they do) that to ask such a question is "rude" "intolerant" "bigoted" "blasphemous" or otherwise "wrong". By choosing that stance, you actually justify the violence that comes after asking an "offensive" question.

"He wouldn't have become violent if the other guy hadn't provoked him with his rude/intolerant/bigoted/blasphemous comment!"

You think this is the only place I get to see this kind of thinking? It's the most common method of thought on the planet!

I'm trying to get below the surface and actually address why that violent action is NOT justified and what could possibly done to address it (besides merely giving in to every demand.)


It's interesting how similar the methodologies of islam and feminism are, as well as the end-goals of totalitarianism. No surprise I object to both, since I don't want to live under the totalitarian state of either.


BTW, good debate linked a few messages up... 25 minutes into it so far. Pity the muslim spokesman decided to change the rules of the debate for himself right from the get-go, but listening to what he has to say. So far, he's only dancing around the subject and not addressing it head-on.

Willful ignorance and bigotry and deliberate misrepresentation *and* another slam at both feminists and Muslims. If nothing else, you are predictable.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I never made that claim - you just did. Let me know when you're ready to have an actual, honest discussion.

Did you not just post these words?

"I think, if anything, the luvvy-duvvy opinions expressed by you, VG, and others are really just a mask to cover fear. Somewhere, deep down, you know that groups like muslims are likely to go into a frothing rage and become violent for so much as asking the question of whether they're the "religion of peace" as they claim to be."

 

[Omar F1]

Yeah I agree my analogy was not that great. I also made a typo, I meant to write "closet atheist Ataturk," not "closest atheist Ataturk."

Speaking of Ataturk, his incomplete secularization of Turkey, promotion of better schooling for males and females, etc. has made Turkey one of the few large, stable majority-Muslim countries in the region despite having no major oil/gas deposits.

In that sense, I think Turkey may be a model for other majority-Muslim countries to follow. Well, maybe not so much right now as Erdogan blatantly violates his own Constitutional prohibitions on the President campaigning, and covers up the corruption in his administration, and tries to roll back some of the Kemalist reforms. But I mean Turkish cultural change in general.

What I meant by the problem of saying a book was the word of God and was not modified and should not be modified, is that it gives room for reductionists like Daesh (and Kharijites and pretty much anyone, actually) to scream at others that they are not following the literal word of God and are kuffar. It's like the reductionists who scream at others that they are not following the US Constitution's literal words, but worse, because at least the Constitution can be amended to clarify ambiguities and better mesh with modern-day realities (e.g., technologies that do what the founding fathers of the US could not have anticipated), whereas in Islam you can't alter the Quran so you have to do it through the hadith and sunnah and as we all know those are not universally interpreted the same or accepted the same.

Speaking of change, we really did present some like the abandon of slavery and "gizyah", there is not a single Islamic country that still implement it.


I'd like to point out one thing, for the specific rules and acts of Islam we usually take it from al-Hadith. Some people could easily go and construe al-Quran as much as they like, but the fact stays that the prophet says and deeds are very important constraints.

Speaking of Ataturk, his incomplete secularization of Turkey, promotion of better schooling for males and females, etc. has made Turkey one of the few large, stable majority-Muslim countries in the region

Also you'd find other Arabic opinions that the Ottoman empire and subsequent events followed was a major reason for the current situation of Arabs.

 

[blastingcap]

Also you'd find other Arabic opinions that the Ottoman empire and subsequent events followed was a major reason for the current situation of Arabs.

I'm curious what your opinion of this is.