Rage3d G80 review

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: jim1976

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Odd for nvidia to drag their heels as you put it. But I have a little thought. Far fetched? Maybe, but here goes. Maybe nvidia is holding back intentionally. Why, you ask? Ok. Nvidia has released the last 2 gens well before ATI's corresponding gens. This gave ATI plenty of time to see how Nvidia hardware performed, and tweak their clocks and drivers and whatever, and do whatever they had to do to be competitive or just best nvidia's fps in games. It could be possible, some may not see it this way, but possible that nvidia is intentionally holding back and "dragging heels" to give DAAMIT a "false" sense of security with the G80's current performance with nvidia's latest driver offering. DAAMIT will do what they need to do to get their R600 just a scooch faster than current G80 performance for the R600's January debut, which is what ATI has done the last two gens. I think Nvidia likes to be first to market for obvious reasons, but there is the downside of letting your competition know exactly what they have to do to best it by being out first. So, put a grain of salt label on this theory if you desire, because it's just a few thoughts jotted down here in the forum.

Keys

Dunno Keys.. I don't like this theory though.
Because I chose this card instead of waiting to see what R600 has to offer basically for performance and IQ reasons. Now IF Nvidia CAN unlock the xS AA and the hybrid modes and they won't do it in the next series of drivers I will find this indimitating for the consumer. Why should I have to wait for R600 to play my older games with insane IQ settings? I can understand that they may want to keep an asset in their sleeve for R600 launch but this can be in the form of performance (madd+madd anyone? Ok this might be far stretched and I don't know if the second MADD instead of MUL is there and can be unlocked) and not IQ.

Well, since you already have a G80 that offers phenomenal performance and IQ, I would think you might be very happy if this theory holds any water. Why? Because free performance boosts (hopefully large ones) may be in your near future. And free performance is a good thing, yes? I know that if I owned a multibillion dollar graphics company, I might try "playing possum" if the occasion allows it. I think Nvidia can afford to do this right now because there is Zero answer from DAAMIT until January, unless R600 gets delayed further of course. And G80's can't be beat so there is really nothing else and enthusiast would buy at this point in time. Nvidia could also be doing the "possum" thing because they know how many people will be waiting for R600 to come out and will want to see the benches against G80. That is most likely (If the theory holds water) when Nvidia will release the killer drivers. Just days before the release of R600.

The thing is, a lot of people are getting emotionally attached to a company's business strategies and tactics. As long as you have the hardware, and it does what it's supposed to do and you're happy with it, why does anyone care how Nvidia and DAAMIT try to dupe each other? That is their business. (Not singling you out Jim, this post is for anyone.).

The Rage3d review seems like a decent one to most who have read it.

Keys I do understand your point.
That's why I said I do understand if they keep hidden performance for the R600 launch.
But I can not understand the need to keep xS/hybrid modes if they can give them now.
IQ might be better with G80 as it is, but as I said one of the reasons I bought it immediately after the launch was the ability to use as much IQ as possible... It seems pointless to keep IQ features hidden IF you have the ability to give them right now..
Unless they have problems with the drivers yet but I don't see how this can be directly correlated with the AA modes. It's one thing to talk about rendering issues and another to talk about AA modes

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Yes, the drivers could be a little more mature than they are. Time will fix that.

How does this statement of yours disagree with my previous statement of:

Originally posted by: josh6079
I think that once the normal quirks are worked out and games are rendered appropriately we'll start to see some additions. Time will tell, hopefully they'll pick up the pace and:

[*] Support 64-bit XP and Vista--ya know, that DX10 OS that is trumped on the G80's packaging as "Essential Vista"--because these guys [G80 owners] aren't happy about it.

[*] Add xS modes to the driver options in the driver control panel when making AA settings.

[*] Fix rendering issues with games other than those held in a typical benchmark.

What exactly were you arguing with again? I'm just wanting to try and concentrate on which one of my claims you have disagreed with because it's obvious you have problems staying focused.

Try to respond with something relevant this time instead of something to the extent of, "I'm a virtual fireman" or "I'm not a fanboy..." Tell me what in that above post of mine you disagree with.

 

[josh6079]

One thing i have learned from this thread?

Josh6079 is the mirror image of Gstanfor ...only Josh6079 is coloured red.

Where have I tried to "convert" anyone to ATi? Especially in this thread?

I can't believe it is such a big deal to this forum to say that a good product needs to be improved. It's new, it's victim to the normal state new products are in when they first arrive and will become more stable over time.

The G80's drivers, even though for being utter crap right now, are one of the biggest strengths the G80 has simply because there will be multiple versions used by the time the R600 arrives, giving the G80 a better reason to buy. If Nvidia is having these problems with drivers and their newest flagship products, I don't even want to imagine the kind of problems ATi will be having with the R600. I still use a Catalyst version released back in the summer time because none of their recent ones have been any good for my X1900XT.

However, Nvidia isn't in the condition to have their drivers be a complementary factor yet. They need to polish them and improve them. That's the basis of my claim. I know I must be a "fanatic" for pointing that out...

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
As long as you have the hardware, and it does what it's supposed to do and you're happy with it, why does anyone care how Nvidia and DAAMIT try to dupe each other? That is their business. (Not singling you out Jim, this post is for anyone.).

That's the problem...not everything works right now. As I mentioned, I still can't play Double Agent, as Jim1976 mentioned, xS modes don't work. If all that was missing was some extra fps then I wouldn't be upset, but right now I can't even play a game I really wanted to play. I honestly don't care how they one-up eachother for fps but I want all the IQ I can get, and which I thought I paid for. This reminds me of the AAA that was possible on ATI X8XX cards but wasn't released officially for a while...I had to use a driver hack to use it.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Too far fetched? Click

So I agree with you, they should fix things with XP-Pro 32-bit. A lot of things.

The keggerbra dude didn't plug in both PCIe connectors. That Toughpower 750W would have served his needs just fine, I think.

Silly dude.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Im beginning to believe that nVIDIA is willing to wait for the new drivers until R600 hits. Since DX10 isnt here, and Vista releasing at around late january they dont need a Vista driver yet.

But what im hearing is that the G80 will have its own drivers. nVIDIA might not carry on with the UDA (unified driver architecture) because as of late, they are supporting 137 GPUs. There is no need for legacy ones, and i believe that to keep everything stable is a VERY complex task. I think its time for nVIDIA to drop support for the older cards e.g nv3x and down because they are really a big burden for nVIDIA.

So with this and all, i think the next drivers for G80 will be something quite different. Probably called forceware-X (since they reached 100 already) and could bring back the old CP with some new stuff. (nVIDIA has been surveying users in nVIDIA fan sites about the new CP, and majority of the polls show old CP is winning by miles). This is why i believe it will be GF3 all over again. All those GF3 consumers had no idea about the free performance boost from just a simple driver update.

Abandoning UDA to a certain point (so nv3x and down) and focusing on the newer products would be rather underwhelming than the task that they have now of supporting 137 GPUs.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
As long as you have the hardware, and it does what it's supposed to do and you're happy with it, why does anyone care how Nvidia and DAAMIT try to dupe each other? That is their business. (Not singling you out Jim, this post is for anyone.).

That's the problem...not everything works right now. As I mentioned, I still can't play Double Agent, as Jim1976 mentioned, xS modes don't work. If all that was missing was some extra fps then I wouldn't be upset, but right now I can't even play a game I really wanted to play. I honestly don't care how they one-up eachother for fps but I want all the IQ I can get, and which I thought I paid for. This reminds me of the AAA that was possible on ATI X8XX cards but wasn't released officially for a while...I had to use a driver hack to use it.

xS modes don't work? Or are they not even an option..... There is a difference.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Yes, the drivers could be a little more mature than they are. Time will fix that.

How does this statement of yours disagree with my previous statement of:

Originally posted by: josh6079
I think that once the normal quirks are worked out and games are rendered appropriately we'll start to see some additions. Time will tell, hopefully they'll pick up the pace and:

[*] Support 64-bit XP and Vista--ya know, that DX10 OS that is trumped on the G80's packaging as "Essential Vista"--because these guys [G80 owners] aren't happy about it.

[*] Add xS modes to the driver options in the driver control panel when making AA settings.

[*] Fix rendering issues with games other than those held in a typical benchmark.

What exactly were you arguing with again? I'm just wanting to try and concentrate on which one of my claims you have disagreed with because it's obvious you have problems staying focused.

Try to respond with something relevant this time instead of something to the extent of, "I'm a virtual fireman" or "I'm not a fanboy..." Tell me what in that above post of mine you disagree with.

I came into this thread stating that nvidia was deliberately holding back their drivers. You thilan & redbox then changed tack and tried to crucify nvidia over lack of an XP-Pro 64 driver. When that failed you dragged the unfortunate experience of a clueless computer builder into this thread, implication being that everyone building an SLI GF8 rig suffers the same way he did.

The best way for this thread is for you Josh (& redbox) to shut the f*ck up and get out of a thread that doesn't concern you (you don't currently own anything nvidia).

One last thing: I'm willing to bet that there would be more SLI GeForce 8 rigs out there than all crossfire rigs of any generation combined....

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
As long as you have the hardware, and it does what it's supposed to do and you're happy with it, why does anyone care how Nvidia and DAAMIT try to dupe each other? That is their business. (Not singling you out Jim, this post is for anyone.).

That's the problem...not everything works right now. As I mentioned, I still can't play Double Agent, as Jim1976 mentioned, xS modes don't work. If all that was missing was some extra fps then I wouldn't be upset, but right now I can't even play a game I really wanted to play. I honestly don't care how they one-up eachother for fps but I want all the IQ I can get, and which I thought I paid for. This reminds me of the AAA that was possible on ATI X8XX cards but wasn't released officially for a while...I had to use a driver hack to use it.

xS modes don't work? Or are they not even an option..... There is a difference.

He's referring to the hybrid MS/SS AA modes that are not present ATM..
Keys the fact is that it would be great if we had those modes right now. Imagine what could we do with many older games that have spare fillrate.. I could call it the "paradise of AA"

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
As long as you have the hardware, and it does what it's supposed to do and you're happy with it, why does anyone care how Nvidia and DAAMIT try to dupe each other? That is their business. (Not singling you out Jim, this post is for anyone.).

That's the problem...not everything works right now. As I mentioned, I still can't play Double Agent, as Jim1976 mentioned, xS modes don't work. If all that was missing was some extra fps then I wouldn't be upset, but right now I can't even play a game I really wanted to play. I honestly don't care how they one-up eachother for fps but I want all the IQ I can get, and which I thought I paid for. This reminds me of the AAA that was possible on ATI X8XX cards but wasn't released officially for a while...I had to use a driver hack to use it.

Please give us more detail about your Double Agent claim Thilan. I can't find any other posts where the game does not work.

Does the developer state in the minimun / recommended requirements that 8xS is a required mode (ATi users would be up a certain creek without a paddle if that were so...)?

 

[BFG10K]

Well, since you already have a G80 that offers phenomenal performance and IQ

Actually as it currently stands my 8800 GTS has visibly inferior IQ to my 7900 GTX because I can't use xS AA modes on it.

For that reason my 8800 GTS is currently sitting in my drawer while I wait for new drivers to expose said functionality. The worst part is that I don't actually know if nVidia will ever add the xS modes.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
As long as you have the hardware, and it does what it's supposed to do and you're happy with it, why does anyone care how Nvidia and DAAMIT try to dupe each other? That is their business. (Not singling you out Jim, this post is for anyone.).

That's the problem...not everything works right now. As I mentioned, I still can't play Double Agent, as Jim1976 mentioned, xS modes don't work. If all that was missing was some extra fps then I wouldn't be upset, but right now I can't even play a game I really wanted to play. I honestly don't care how they one-up eachother for fps but I want all the IQ I can get, and which I thought I paid for. This reminds me of the AAA that was possible on ATI X8XX cards but wasn't released officially for a while...I had to use a driver hack to use it.

Please give us more detail about your Double Agent claim Thilan. I can't find any other posts where the game does not work.

Does the developer state in the minimun / recommended requirements that 8xS is a required mode (ATi users would be up a certain creek without a paddle if that were so...)?

Gstanfor chill man..
He's not referring to a xS problem with SC: DA.. The game simply does not ran on any G80 system..
And it is not the only game that has rendering issues ATM.. Though this is partially understood because of the new marchitecture and immature drivers..

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Well, since you already have a G80 that offers phenomenal performance and IQ

Actually as it currently stands my 8800 GTS has visibly inferior IQ to my 7900 GTX because I can't use xS AA modes on it.

For that reason my 8800 GTS is currently sitting in my drawer while I wait for new drivers to expose said functionality. The worst part is that I don't actually know if nVidia will ever add the xS modes.

There is a small possibility that they won't. Even if they don't G80 is still an excellent product with excellent IQ (better than that of the competitor).

Naturally, like you, I sincerely hope nvidia will bring back the *XS modes (I believe they will have to - at least for the Quadro lineup).

Unlike some others in this thread, I can see that nvidia is currently engaged in obtaining a tactical advantage over the competition and I'm more than prepared to be patient for a little while as a result.

 

[Gstanfor]

jim1976, From what I'm reading (I don't own a copy of SCA myself yet), patching the game to 1.01 and disabling CP AA lets you play the game.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
jim1976, From what I'm reading (I don't own a copy of SCA myself yet), patching the game to 1.01 and disabling CP AA lets you play the game.

Nope m8 this is not right.. This patch let users use AA with HDR along with other stuff..
The problem with G80 is that the game will not run to a vast majority of users.
To some of us that actually managed to run it, it produces severe texture corruption that makes the game unplayable by all means..

 

[Gstanfor]

Have you tried 3danalyse and setting the Device ID to that of say a 7900GT?

Nvidia is pretty good about getting new games up and running, if this is truly a driver bug I'd expect they would have produced an updated driver that addresses it by now, tactical war or not.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor


The best way for this thread is for you Josh (& redbox) to shut the f*ck up and get out of a thread that doesn't concern you (you don't currently own anything nvidia).

One last thing: I'm willing to bet that there would be more SLI GeForce 8 rigs out there than all crossfire rigs of any generation combined....

My only purpose in this thread was to state my opinion that Nvidia not supporting certain features that the 7series does support is a bad thing. I was confused as to what your stance on the subject was. You gave me a pretty good answer on why you don't think it is a bad thing. That's fine, that's dandy.....it's your opinion and all, but the thing is you can't really deal with that can you. If someone has a different opinion than you you would rather just tell them to "shut the f*ck up and get out of a thread that doesn't concern you (you don't currently own anything nvidia)" By the way how does your foot taste. Counting Josh_6079 and redbox's computer purchases in the last year we have made 7 Nvidia purchases. A 6600gt, three 7800gt's, and three chipsets from Nvidia. We are still using those chipsets right now. Further more this thread would be the perfect place for someone wishing to buy a G80. If I am going to plunk down that amount of money I want to know every problem it might have, how it will perform, what the customer service is like, will it make games look and feel better than my older cards. Some games don't even work as thilan has said. He sumed up the typical buyers opinion when it comes to these things:

I honestly don't care how they one-up eachother for fps but I want all the IQ I can get, and which I thought I paid for.

As customers we care about these things. You admire Nvidia as a business and I would have to agree with that. They know how to conduct themselfs very nicely. The thing is most people on this forum could care less about which company is making the most money. We just want our hardware to work right and play some games. When a company provides a product that is less than what it should be we like to know about that. Cause in the end it is the customer that is going to have to pay for this posturing.

I would love to pick up a G80, but unlike some others in this thread, I can see that nvidia is currently engaged posturing and giving their customer less and I'm more than prepared to be patient for a little while as a result. I will not buy a DX10 card from either of the camps untill we have DX10 games to play and test and drivers that are mature.

 

[Gstanfor]

Well then RedBox, what about supersampling on ATi?

That is a feature that was present in a previous generation, and dropped afterwards. Plenty of ATi users asked ATi to bring it back to no avail.

The GPU's themselves are capable of supersampling, as their use in Apple products clearly demonstrates.

We don't know yet that the *XS modes are permanently gone from G8x - some people are declaring the death of nvidia's combined AA modes WAY too soon. IMHO.

I would love to pick up a G80, but unlike some others in this thread, I can see that nvidia is currently engaged posturing and giving their customer less and I'm more than prepared to be patient for a little while as a result.

Bullsh!t redbox! even without the combined AA modes the G80 still rips ATi's current lineup to shreds in every way possible - including IQ.

The sort of driver issues we are seeing occur in every new generation from nvidia. I can distinctly remember NV40 drivers having no SM3 support for the first few releases for instance.

This will all be sorted with time.

In the meantime pathetic fanatic trolls like yourself will attempt to get as much negative mileage as you possibly can from the situation.

 

[Cookie Monster]

You guys are blowing the problem out of proportion. nVIDIA will bring it back, and SSAA is part of DX10 specification. Its just not supported right now, just like pure video/AVIVO wasnt activated til later and so was HDR plus AA. All these took time after initial release to be fully taken advantage of.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
You thilan & redbox then changed tack and tried to crucify nvidia over lack of an XP-Pro 64 driver. When that failed you dragged the unfortunate experience of a clueless computer builder into this thread, implication being that everyone building an SLI GF8 rig suffers the same way he did.

I hope that was by mistake because I never even mentioned XP 64-bit? I mentioned my own problems.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Please give us more detail about your Double Agent claim Thilan. I can't find any other posts where the game does not work.

Does the developer state in the minimun / recommended requirements that 8xS is a required mode (ATi users would be up a certain creek without a paddle if that were so...)?

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1959542&enterthread=y

It has nothing to do with xS modes. I can't even start the retail game and the demo has lots of texture corruption. Trust me I'm not the only one. Go over to the Ubisoft or Gamespot forums. LOTS of people have problems...and the ones with G80 I think have the most.

Originally posted by: redbox

I honestly don't care how they one-up eachother for fps but I want all the IQ I can get, and which I thought I paid for.

As customers we care about these things. You admire Nvidia as a business and I would have to agree with that. They know how to conduct themselfs very nicely. The thing is most people on this forum could care less about which company is making the most money. We just want our hardware to work right and play some games. When a company provides a product that is less than what it should be we like to know about that. Cause in the end it is the customer that is going to have to pay for this posturing.

I would love to pick up a G80, but unlike some others in this thread, I can see that nvidia is currently engaged posturing and giving their customer less and I'm more than prepared to be patient for a little while as a result. I will not buy a DX10 card from either of the camps untill we have DX10 games to play and test and drivers that are mature.

Redbox I think you've quoted me...instead of GStanfor like you thought. I also couldn't care less about which company makes more money. I'm starting to wish I didn't buy G80 so soon with some of the problems...and some of the "miracle drivers" predicted. I probably should have waited until R600 but I had to get rid of the 7900GTO while I could make a profit on it. Although, from the games I HAVE been able to play...it has been flawless and with really nice IQ. Oblivion especially looked VERY nice and gave some nice performance with everything cranked up, albeit at only 1280x1024.

 

[Gstanfor]

Yes, sorry thilan.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Yes, sorry thilan.

np.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Please give us more detail about your Double Agent claim Thilan. I can't find any other posts where the game does not work.

Does the developer state in the minimun / recommended requirements that 8xS is a required mode (ATi users would be up a certain creek without a paddle if that were so...)?

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1959542&enterthread=y

It has nothing to do with xS modes. I can't even start the retail game and the demo has lots of texture corruption. Trust me I'm not the only one. Go over to the Ubisoft or Gamespot forums. LOTS of people have problems...and the ones with G80 I think have the most.

Originally posted by: redbox

I honestly don't care how they one-up eachother for fps but I want all the IQ I can get, and which I thought I paid for.

As customers we care about these things. You admire Nvidia as a business and I would have to agree with that. They know how to conduct themselfs very nicely. The thing is most people on this forum could care less about which company is making the most money. We just want our hardware to work right and play some games. When a company provides a product that is less than what it should be we like to know about that. Cause in the end it is the customer that is going to have to pay for this posturing.

I would love to pick up a G80, but unlike some others in this thread, I can see that nvidia is currently engaged posturing and giving their customer less and I'm more than prepared to be patient for a little while as a result. I will not buy a DX10 card from either of the camps untill we have DX10 games to play and test and drivers that are mature.

Redbox I think you've quoted me...instead of GStanfor like you thought. I also couldn't care less about which company makes more money. I'm starting to wish I didn't buy G80 so soon with some of the problems...and some of the "miracle drivers" predicted. I probably should have waited until R600 but I had to get rid of the 7900GTO while I could make a profit on it. Although, from the games I HAVE been able to play...it has been flawless and with really nice IQ. Oblivion especially looked VERY nice and gave some nice performance with everything cranked up, albeit at only 1280x1024.

(not specifically having a go at you thilan in this post)
The worst the fanatics have been able to throw at nvidia so far is the lack of combined AA modes and Splinter Cell : Double agent not working.

Once again I'll point out Supersampling being left out of R300 and later chips and I'll further point out the failure of R300 to run NOLF2 upon that games release (the R300 was then as new as G80 and had quite a few more issues including AGP 8x compatability problems)....

 

[josh6079]

You thilan & redbox then changed tack and tried to crucify nvidia over lack of an XP-Pro 64 driver.

I wasn't "crucifying" them but rather saying that they didn't support it. I know it's easy for someone like yourself to see an Nvidia problem equivalent to a crucification...

I also don't see how I was singling Nvidia out by saying the same words to ATi when they launched products without a variation of stable drivers.

When that failed you dragged the unfortunate experience of a clueless computer builder into this thread, implication being that everyone building an SLI GF8 rig suffers the same way he did.

There were links with that thread relaying other issuers problems. Just look on the Nvidia forums and you'll see thread after thread about 680i and G80 problems. Why is this? Because the prodcuts are still a little premature and need some querks worked out.

The best way for this thread is for you Josh (& redbox) to shut the f*ck up...

Why are you incapable of discussing things like an adult?

...and get out of a thread that doesn't concern you...(you don't currently own anything nvidia).

That's funny. I could have sworn that my DFI SLI-DR nF4 Expert board has an Nvidia chipset it it.

Also, could you explain to me how a potential buyer shouldn't be concerned with a thread discussing a products pros and cons?

One last thing: I'm willing to bet that there would be more SLI GeForce 8 rigs out there than all crossfire rigs of any generation combined....

And? That has nothing to do with the fact that Nvidia needs to provide better drivers than they currently are.

You still haven't answered my claim as to what exactly you are disagreeing with. What about my claim stating that Nvidia needs to better develop some drivers do you disagree with?