R600 to be 80nm

[apoppin]

you wouldn't like the American one either

just like the Australian one ... but on a bigger scale

 

[Gstanfor]

Problem is we usually get landed with American CEO's who come to Australia not knowing the first thing about local conditions and screwing whatever they touch up beyond belief for years to come. The latest arrival is Solomon Trujillo who is busy making Telstra about 1000 times more evil than they already were.

 

[josh6079]

IF you had attempted to help the issue - or even chastise me - BEFORE dreddfunk and i had already resolved it, THEN your posts might have made some sense

I did. I posted 3 times before the apologies began.

"clouding the issue" is a weak attempt to say *everything else*...

What are you even talking about? You claimed dred's opinions were trying to cloud the issue when they were simply another viewpoint that was different from your own. You took it a step further by claiming that that was his "job."

but explain how "delaying a flagship to launch lesser GPUs" make ANY sense

I'm not AMD, I can't explain that one. All I can do is hear it from the horse's mouth and deal with it. Whether or not I buy that excuse or not won't get it out any faster.

Corporations listen to consumers because of their purchasing power. If AMD wants to hear people, they'll listen when everyone is buying nothing but nVidia. (It's like that now pretty much, but it will be even more so when there's more games that need G80 or above horsepower - DX10)

the *only* person who was attempting to use any logic was dreddfunk ...

That's funny. Earlier you spit his logic back at him with "or what?" and saying that his opinions relating to the possible reasons for AMD's delay were:

*impossible* for anyone to defend...

You even expressed his "logic" as a:

long-winded blog

Interesting how you even admitted that he was the only one using logic. Must have either forgotten about your own or realized how *illogical* they were...

 

[apoppin]

trying to justify yourself
:thumbsdown:

no one cares ...

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Appopin you need to seriously evaluate what, if any, contributions you are making to this forum. Instead of having a reasoned debate about the issues, people here are spending their time arguing with you. For the sake of an intelligent discussion either cut back on the incessant harping on AMD or stop posting.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Appopin you need to seriously evaluate what, if any, contributions you are making to this forum. Instead of having a reasoned debate about the issues, people here are spending their time arguing with you. For the sake of an intelligent discussion either cut back on the incessant harping on AMD or stop posting.

wth should i debate Josh when he is too little too late


the issue he is bitching about is *resolved*
... *long resolved* ...

there is no intelligent discussion here ... in this thread ... what did you add besides more flames? are you contributing to this forum?

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Appopin you need to seriously evaluate what, if any, contributions you are making to this forum. Instead of having a reasoned debate about the issues, people here are spending their time arguing with you. For the sake of an intelligent discussion either cut back on the incessant harping on AMD or stop posting.

:beer: Video here would not be the same without those that supply the bait.

 

[Matt2]

I wish we could all get together, have a few beers and lose a few teeth.

Good ol' fashioned male bonding!

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Matt2
I wish we could all get together, have a few beers and lose a few teeth.

Good ol' fashioned male bonding!

How do you know apoppin isnt a 500 pound obese white male?

Think twice before saying that!

Hmm, but then again ronnn could be a female hottie..

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: Matt2
I wish we could all get together, have a few beers and lose a few teeth.

Good ol' fashioned male bonding!

How do you know apoppin isnt a 500 pound obese white male?

Think twice before saying that!

Hmm, but then again ronnn could be a female hottie..

actually apoppin IS a skinny surfer ...

... and he's ok with female hotties too ... especially fan-girls

Video is a good "break" from playing STALKER ...


*done* ... well, got *one* of the true endings ... working on the other

great game

thanks to you guys - well cpus, too - i know how to keep my budget gaming rig playing the latest games
:beer:

you guys are really the best
:heart:

--despite your faults

:laugh:

Originally posted by: ronnn
:beer: Video here would not be the same without those that supply the bait.

well ... keep at it ... you clearly are an experienced master baiter

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: apoppin
there is hope, of course ... but how much damage can a company take from their own stupid management?

it takes a *lot* for shareholders to dump the CEO ... there would have to be a 'bloodbath' at AMD to turn it around quickly

they *need* to if they want any credibility ...

EDIT ... that looks like an excellent change at Take Two
:thumbsup:

yeah ... something just like that at AMD

would make my day

Well, it looks like the butchering has started at AMD, and its former ATi personnel who now occupy redundant positions who are the victims (by the way guys AMD says "Happy Easter!")
More than 100 layoffs issued at AMD's Markham office

More than 100 layoffs issued at AMD's Markham office

Apr 5, 2007
Patrick Mangion, Staff Writer


A sputtering start to 2007 has resulted in more than 100 layoffs at Markham's Advanced Micro Devices.

AMD, a leading chipmaker and Silicon Valley archrival of Intel, has been forced to operate much leaner as spending soared as quickly as the California company's debt.

The result: 375 employees from AMD's 16,000-strong global workforce have been handed their walking papers.

Nearly half of those were former ATI Technologies workers.

About 130 workers at the Hwys. 404 and 7 building have been laid off from various departments since last December, AMD spokesperson Dave Erskine said.

The transition has had few bumps since last year's deal that saw AMD pay $4.2 billion US in cash as well as 57 million of its shares in a takeover deal worth $5.4 billion, Mr. Erskine added.

"Our core businesses have very little overlap," he said.

However, some redundancies had to be eliminated.

"We didn't need two finance departments or two human resources departments," said Mr. Erskine, adding the layoffs represent 2 per cent of the company's global workforce.

AMD has been locked in a bitter battle with Intel.

It bought ATI last year hoping to gain the upper hand on Intel by combining traditional processing chores with graphics capabilities in one chip.

Instead, at the end of 2006, AMD had $1.5 billion in cash, but was also saddled with $3.8 billion in debt, including $2.2 billion associated with the ATI acquisition. By comparison, in 2005, AMD had $1.8 billion in cash and a total debt load of $1.4 billion.

AMD's latest plight marks a sharp departure from last year, when the company was able wrestle 4 per cent market share from Intel.

In the final quarter of 2006, AMD's share of the microprocessor market was estimated at 25 per cent.

The price war has hurt AMD more, said Joel Baum, a professor of Strategic Management at the Rotman School of Management.

"The short run will be painful, as are most acquisitions. But going forward (AMD's purchase of ATI) might make some sense," Mr. Baum said.

"AMD has always been a firm on the edge."

ATI's takeover by AMD will reap dividends, despite the latest setbacks, Mr. Erskine said.

"It has helped us to innovate. The biggest part of this deal won't be seen at the outset, but by 2008 and 2009."

The company is working on a multi-functional chip on a single piece of silicon.

Embedding graphics on the same chip that performs the processing will generate exceptional graphics for the gaming industry along with increased speed, Mr. Baum said.

"Both AMD and Intel are capable of doing it; they have to. AMD has a good shot at getting their first," said Mr. Baum, adding that could spark a turnaround of the company's fortunes.

In the meantime, more job losses at AMD in Markham are likely, he said.

AMD was banking on the release of a new chip with four computing engines, code-named Barcelona, later this year.

However, Intel beat AMD to market with an identical chip last November.

In the volatile semiconductor industry Intel was often able to best AMD by having deeper pockets.

However, a watershed moment for AMD came in 2000 when it beat Intel to market by first releasing a one-gigahertz processor.

The rivalry dates back to the mid-1990s when AMD signed a deal with Intel that it wouldn't copy its designs.

Inquirer blurb
vr-zone forum thread

 

[apoppin]

redundant departments?

how about firing the entire ATi PR/marketing staff? ... they are a third leg to AMD and probably the 'reason' for all the *confusion* in "explaining" why r600 is late

if they have any sense left, this would be a great start
[unless they want to fire their own PR and let Richard Huddy and ATi's old PR handle it from now on]
:Q

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin
redundant departments?

Yeah, that's all it is.

Really I think all that talk about how much trouble AMD is in has been way overblown. They wouldn't have purchased ATI if they were concerned in the least that it would make them go broke.

My concern is that, as apoppin has stated, the merger has really castrated ATI. Really and truly it has castrated both companies. AMD hasn't released much since they joined forces, and ATI has released a nice goose-egg.

I have a feeling that they have dedicated 90% of their combined engineers to the on-die GPU project and have put them into panic mode, and are essentially giving up on discreet graphics since they know that there will only be a few more generations of those cards anyway.

I'm certain that AMD bought ATI for their engineers, and I'm also sure that they had a specific project in mind. They probably figured 'to hell with whatever they were working on, I want them to do this instead!'.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: apoppin
redundant departments?

Yeah, that's all it is.

Really I think all that talk about how much trouble AMD is in has been way overblown. They wouldn't have purchased ATI if they were concerned in the least that it would make them go broke.

My concern is that, as apoppin has stated, the merger has really castrated ATI. Really and truly it has castrated both companies. AMD hasn't released much since they joined forces, and ATI has released a nice goose-egg.

I have a feeling that they have dedicated 90% of their combined engineers to the on-die GPU project and have put them into panic mode, and are essentially giving up on discreet graphics since they know that there will only be a few more generations of those cards anyway.

I'm certain that AMD bought ATI for their engineers, and I'm also sure that they had a specific project in mind. They probably figured 'to hell with whatever they were working on, I want them to do this instead!'.

IF this is truely the reason ... AMD is playing a *dangerous game* ... one they appear to be losing.

They bet the bank on Barcelona [r600 is 'small potatoes' in comparison] ... if it actually *flops* there won't be a second chance, imo
--who will loan them money? ... they are cash-broke[period] ... forget Fusion

intel is working hard to make sure it is perceived as a failure

and nvidia doesn't have to work at all ... they are coasting since r600 - so far - is a failed 'no show'

 

[Zstream]

Why would it be a dangerous game? They have to do it!

GPU/CPU is the future, Nvidia will eventually have to make mobo with a socket type gpu.

Anyways the people at AMD/Nvidia/Intel/Via are much smarter then any one of us on this forum. Let them make the decisions. That is why each company has put millions into the on-die GPU projects.

The first to get this out the door will have a large lead in the consumer market.

Graphic cards like the 8800 and the r600 will only last two or three more generations.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: apoppin
redundant departments?

Yeah, that's all it is.

Really I think all that talk about how much trouble AMD is in has been way overblown. They wouldn't have purchased ATI if they were concerned in the least that it would make them go broke.

My concern is that, as apoppin has stated, the merger has really castrated ATI. Really and truly it has castrated both companies. AMD hasn't released much since they joined forces, and ATI has released a nice goose-egg.

I have a feeling that they have dedicated 90% of their combined engineers to the on-die GPU project and have put them into panic mode, and are essentially giving up on discreet graphics since they know that there will only be a few more generations of those cards anyway.

I'm certain that AMD bought ATI for their engineers, and I'm also sure that they had a specific project in mind. They probably figured 'to hell with whatever they were working on, I want them to do this instead!'.

IF this is truely the reason ... AMD is playing a *dangerous game* ... one they appear to be losing.

They bet the bank on Barcelona [r600 is 'small potatoes' in comparison] ... if it actually *flops* there won't be a second chance, imo
--who will loan them money? ... they are cash-broke[period] ... forget Fusion

intel is working hard to make sure it is perceived as a failure

and nvidia doesn't have to work at all ... they are coasting since r600 - so far - is a failed 'no show'

According to some guy at AMD, they are thinking that they will release Fusion before intel has their competing part.

Barcelona is quite good by all early accounts.

AMD isn't playing a 'dangerous game'; they have to make Fusion as it is where the industry is going.

 

[yacoub]

It's dangerous because forum visionary apoopins says so

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin
the reason

I'm sure AMD has their 'reasons'.

Reasons are irrelevant in the end if the product doesn't show up and we all suffer as consumers as a result.

If Fusion is the reason, I think it's actually less risky to go that route than to pour tons into R&D for what will soon be a dead platform for graphics. The die on the R600 is far too large to implement onto a CPU.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: yacoub
It's dangerous because forum visionary apoopins says so

Actually I get the impression that he has some friends in the industry and he usually posts pretty good info. He knew who Rollo was pretty quick. :Q

 

[josh6079]

trying to justify yourself
:thumbsdown:

Justify? LoL!

Right, pointing out your own contradictions and asking you questions that you never answer needs justification...cause it's against the rules or something. No one should ever ask apoppin anything that might show his idiocy.

no one cares ...

Obviously you do. You care enough to tell me to butt out and go away and *try* to act like a Mod, even though all I did was ask you to support what you claimed.

I can't believe our forum's supposed Rollo-purger became so tender, claiming that another very reasonable poster "attacked" him only to later classify the "attack" as a subtle "tone."

Truth is, you couldn't seem to discuss dred's viewpoint with any logical reasoning, so you attempted to turn the attention towards his "tone" that was "attacking" you. Then upon being asked where the insult was he interpreted what could have been any kind of an insult, and even if it was interpreted that way, it was only about your habit of putting as many emotions in your posts as words - something you have *always* been criticized for. (Nothing new there bub.)

You even complained about how you were going to have to "re-read everything", as if you were going to have to really search for the "attack."

Then, because he apologized for something that only could have been an insult if it was misread, you apologized for your actions (cause you really couldn't do anything else). You even thanked him for finding it for you. (If that could even be considered what you were complaining about in the first place.) But nonetheless you apologized. Good for you. Glad you can act somewhat like an adult. And that's all I wanted to see.

Then you go and say that my "analysis" is wrong when half of it is your quotes. You claimed that your posts weren't attacking, yet you apologized for them. You even later state that dred was the "only" one using any real logic, yet don't want to admit that you were wrong. So, why again are you so frustrated with me? You're the one throwing empty accusations, empty apologies, and contradicting stances at everything.

This is why other people on in this thread have said that you're being annoying. Not because they disagree with your conspiracy theory about the R600 being late (it's a reasonable possibility), not because they believe everything 100% that AMD says, etc., but because of your hypocritical accusations.

 

[Matt2]

If AMD is concentrating that hard on Fusion then I still say that they are going to regret it.

I find it laughable that people think that next year, AMD is going to bring Fusion to the table and it's going to perform on par with high end discreet graphics.

C/GPUs are going to go through the same evolutionary process as every other PC component. We're going to slow, low end C/GPUs first. As time goes on the performance will get better and Nvidia will eventually be squeezed out of the market. But that wont happen to 2010 or 2011, you can take that one to the bank.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Matt2
If AMD is concentrating that hard on Fusion then I still say that they are going to regret it.

I find it laughable that people think that next year, AMD is going to bring Fusion to the table and it's going to perform on par with high end discreet graphics.

C/GPUs are going to go through the same evolutionary process as every other PC component. We're going to slow, low end C/GPUs first. As time goes on the performance will get better and Nvidia will eventually be squeezed out of the market. But that wont happen to 2010 or 2011, you can take that one to the bank.

Current graphics setups are wasteful IMO.

It's like having two motherboards. All that GPU memory gets wasted while you're doing 2D stuff. I'd much rather have 2GB of shared super-fast memory. It's definately possible, too. I wouldn't put it past AMD to put a 512-bit memory controller and GDDR4 memory slot right on the motherboard. At that point it would be faster than current high-end discreet graphics due to the insane speed at which data can go from the CPU to the GPU and vice versa.

Look at the GPU in the Xbox 360. That thing was *fast* when it came out, and the chips are discreet. Imagine if they were combined...

 

[josh6079]

Look at the GPU in the Xbox 360...

Speaking about the Xbox 360's GPU, it seems that AMD doesn't know what API it is.

Originally posted in: Cebit 2007: Interview with AMD/Atis Vijay Sharma
Vijay Sharma: Even before Vista we had WQHL-certification. So our driver is in great shape. And the other point is we are actually on our second generation of DX10.

PCGH: You're talking about Xbox360-GPU...

Vijay Sharma: Yes, Xbox360 was our first generation and we're on our second generation and you can see our lead in the drivers. This isn't the first time we're doing this. We have a lead, we have established technology, so we're very confident.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Xbox 360 have it's own API? I was under the impression that it didn't classify as DX9 nor DX10.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Look at the GPU in the Xbox 360...

Speaking about the Xbox 360's GPU, it seems that AMD doesn't know what API it is.

Originally posted in: Cebit 2007: Interview with AMD/Atis Vijay Sharma
Vijay Sharma: Even before Vista we had WQHL-certification. So our driver is in great shape. And the other point is we are actually on our second generation of DX10.

PCGH: You're talking about Xbox360-GPU...

Vijay Sharma: Yes, Xbox360 was our first generation and we're on our second generation and you can see our lead in the drivers. This isn't the first time we're doing this. We have a lead, we have established technology, so we're very confident.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Xbox 360 have it's own API? I was under the impression that it didn't classify as DX9 nor DX10.

You sir, are correct.

f I have read it once, I have read it a thousand times, ?The Xbox 360 is just ATI?s next generation (fill in favorite code name here) GPU.? The simple answer to that is, ?No it is not.? While most modern GPUs share many architectural similarities, Bob Feldstein and Chris Evenden of ATI went out of their way to explain to me, no matter how hard I tried to convince them otherwise, that the Xbox 360 GPU is very much an original creation. While some will try to tell you that is it simply a modified DirectX 9 GPU, you might be interested to learn that the only API spec that the Xbox 360 hardware meets is its own API. That is correct, the Xbox 360 GPU only meets it own Xbox 360 API specifications. While of course some lessons learned in DX9 and upcoming DX10 were applied, the GPU of the Xbox 360 is very much its own and comparing it directly to anything in the PC world is simply ?not right? according to Mr. Feldstein. Obviously, the Xbox 360 can be thought of as a very innovative solution specifically for the Xbox and only the Xbox.

Link

Everytime I read Vijay Sharma's interview, the more I think he doesn't know what the eff he's talking about.

Add in the fact that Vijay's official title at AMD is "Director of Desktop Discrete Product Marketing at AMD" and I have to believe that his entire interview was just a smoke screen.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: yacoub
It's dangerous because forum visionary apoopins says so

it's dangerous because everyone else 'in the know' agrees ... all the stock and tech industry analysts concur - except for those owned by AMD

and especially except for their fanboys who are dreaming of a *miracle*

IF r600 fails to impress ... no biggie ... but a portend of darker things to come [considering how much AMD hypes them both]

if AMD fails against intel with Barcelona ... they have no future ... except as a 2nd rate chip manufacturer

their unwise acquisition, extreme borrowing of money, tardiness, cpu price war ... has left them stretched thin ... they *need cash* ... any further borrowed money will be at a very high interest rate ...

and IF their products are not "competitive" with an 'edge" ... expect a stockholder revolt, extreme bloodletting with the ouster of their CEO ... and probably some hostile takeover attempts.

IF they fail or are perceived as failed

and let the future say if my analysis is correct or not

finally ... josh6079 you seem to have a single-track vendetta going on

what you still completely *miss* is that everything you are trying to *dredge up* - AGAIN - was between a single forum member and myself ... that issue is *resolved* to OUR *satisfaction* ... we *didn't need* you THEN and we certainly don't need your meddling now.

WtF are you *involving* yourself now?


too little ... too late ... and too stupid for me to even go there again
*after the fact* ... *after the resolution* --which is none of your business [anymore]
--as if it ever were.

your *continuation* of this settled nonsense is pure trolling

AFTERward, i made a *lot* of statements, disclosed personal feelings about the matter ... and continued on discussing the TOPIC .... unlike you who is stuck in the mud
--pick on something i said that is not [now] private and closed
-if you are capable of formulating a real argument