Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

Page 76 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,297
1,897
106
Judging by rumours, Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 will be very strong.

Apple M3-class CPU performance (both ST and MT)*, and Apple M4-class GPU performance**.

This thing will be great for tablets.

*As measured in Geekbench6
**As measured in 3DMark WLE
 

SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
963
660
106
Yet except the developer kit part it all makes sense.
Bigger number = better.
yeah it’s fine.

I do love how we’re backing up constantly on Snapdragon tho, like from “Nuvia and QC won’t ship lol” to “but the skus are bad” (AMD and Intel doing the same shit)
 

SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
963
660
106
Some early reviews of the Snapdragon X Elite are beginning to drop.

This is one about the Galaxy Book4 Edge;


View attachment 101010This comment about responsiveness/microlag is interesting. In a hardware/engineering perspective, what is the reason for this? Is it because ARM CPUs don't have aggressive turbo clocks?
it’s not about the turbo clocks in isolation. More turbo would give you less lag, it’s just about the cores. Everybody does frequency ramping. How much you can afford, and how fast you get there, and how often you can do that thermally — or without killing the battery, is the question.

It’s not difficult to explain why he felt like that with the Core Ultra 9 and didn’t here. Just look at the perf/W curves for ST.

What do you think is going on, given these are shipped in real laptops with OEM and Windows settings?

Probably just something limiting it. That or an LPE screwup.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SarahKerrigan

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
3,061
2,290
136
Some early reviews of the Snapdragon X Elite are beginning to drop.

This is one about the Galaxy Book4 Edge;


View attachment 101010This comment about responsiveness/microlag is interesting. In a hardware/engineering perspective, what is the reason for this? Is it because ARM CPUs don't have aggressive turbo clocks?
That sounds more like a Windows and/or Adobe issue to me.

The codebase for Photoshop is ancient, extremely bloated and prone to crashes at inopportune times, much as the rest of Adobe's "classic" software line up.

It wouldn't surprise me to know that the native ARM port forced them to make fundamental reimplementation of features that turned out to be significantly faster and more responsive.
 

Nothingness

Platinum Member
Jul 3, 2013
2,838
1,560
136
That sounds more like a Windows and/or Adobe issue to me.

The codebase for Photoshop is ancient, extremely bloated and prone to crashes at inopportune times, much as the rest of Adobe's "classic" software line up.

It wouldn't surprise me to know that the native ARM port forced them to make fundamental reimplementation of features that turned out to be significantly faster and more responsive.
But then wouldn't the newer Photoshop on x86 also benefit from the same improvements (I doubt Adobe would maintain/release/support two significantly different versions of their SW especially on the same OS, except perhaps in very early beta releases)?

I tried to extract pertinent information from Adobe website. What a horrible mess to get any technical details. I just let it down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joe NYC

soresu

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2014
3,061
2,290
136
But then wouldn't the newer Photoshop on x86 also benefit from the same improvements (I doubt Adobe would maintain/release/support two significantly different versions of their SW especially on the same OS, except perhaps in very early beta releases)?
Unless the original x86 codebase is now just the backend behind some kind of abstraction layer.

Given Substance Painter started bloating almost immediately after Adobe acquired it I wouldn't put anything past them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: carancho

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,297
1,897
106
@igor_kavinski

What would a Snapdragon equivalent of Alder Lake-N look like?

My imagination:
4× Oryon V1 E-cores @3.0 GHz
Half the Adreno GPU of X Elite
15 TOPS NPU
64 bit LPDDR5X
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,469
13,198
136
Well ARM, this will definitely get you to 50% market share in the PC space. It's the same "old" legal battle, but perfectly timed to rain on their own parade.

In a statement to Reuters, ARM insists:

"ARM's claim against Qualcomm and Nuvia is about protecting the ARM ecosystem and partners who rely on our IP and innovative designs, and therefore enforcing Qualcomm's contractual obligation to destroy and stop using the Nuvia designs that were derived from ARM technology."
 

SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
963
660
106
Guys Jesus H Christ.

This is the same demand from the lawsuit. This site is just reposting it based off their own reiteration of that demand to Reuters. They don’t have the power to do that until or unless they win, which also obviously isn’t their main intention as opposed to settling.

Nothing has changed
 
Jul 27, 2020
18,426
12,302
116
Meaning what? Early firmware?
I think firmware can be ruled out at this point. It's the horrible tile latency on MTL slowing things down. It's their first mass market disaggregated tile architecture with a "useless" NPU coz it doesn't meet Microsoft's TOPS requirement. Intel scammed people good. They just wanted to get this thing out ASAP and be done with it, without caring about end users and the longevity of the laptop. Being a tile, shouldn't have been impossible for them to put in a better NPU, unless they manufactured the NPUs before the MTL silicon became usable, in which case, they should've used the NPU with cheaper laptops instead of pushing it in expensive premium designs.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
597
1,004
96
Some early reviews of the Snapdragon X Elite are beginning to drop.

This is one about the Galaxy Book4 Edge;


View attachment 101010This comment about responsiveness/microlag is interesting. In a hardware/engineering perspective, what is the reason for this? Is it because ARM CPUs don't have aggressive turbo clocks?
He's also saying that he can't differentiate between Arm compiled apps and x86 emulated, just like Rosetta 2. Huge win for MS here.

He also tested RE Village at 1080p and got 40-50 FPS with framedrops here and there. Very surprising for the Adreno GPU.
This dude's saying his Galaxy Book4 Edge gets 31 hours of battery life...

This is seriously impressive! He said that while watching the Apple keynote and doing web work, the battery went from 90% to 75% in 2 hours. Very promising.
@igor_kavinski

What would a Snapdragon equivalent of Alder Lake-N look like?

My imagination:
4× Oryon V1 E-cores @3.0 GHz
Half the Adreno GPU of X Elite
15 TOPS NPU
64 bit LPDDR5X
I don't think QCOM intend on selling SoCs with less than 45 TOPs NPU to be honest. Pretty sure even Purwa will meet that Copilot + PC requirement.
Well ARM, this will definitely get you to 50% market share in the PC space. It's the same "old" legal battle, but perfectly timed to rain on their own parade.

I think Arm and QCOM will settle.
Dude comparing it to the "beta" MTL silicon based Core Ultra laptop. No wonder...
That's Intel problem. They decided to ship first-generation consumer disaggregated SoCs with all of its problems. Consumer will just buy an product and compare to what they have.

He isn't the first person I see complaining about MTL responsiveness. If QCOM beats Intel here, it's all fair. Consumer shouldn't be expected to excuse issues due to x,y,z.
 

SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
963
660
106
He's also saying that he can't differentiate between Arm compiled apps and x86 emulated, just like Rosetta 2. Huge win for MS here.

He also tested RE Village at 1080p and got 40-50 FPS with framedrops here and there. Very surprising for the Adreno GPU.

This is seriously impressive! He said that while watching the Apple keynote and doing web work, the battery went from 90% to 75% in 2 hours. Very promising.
Yeah, with the OLED at max brightness and speakers on, for context to the others here. 14” display, I think 70-75wh battery? That’s an extremely good result.
I don't think QCOM intend on selling SoCs with less than 45 TOPs NPU to be honest. Pretty sure even Purwa will meet that Copilot + PC requirement.
Yep
I think Arm and QCOM will settle.
Yep
That's Intel problem. They decided to ship first-generation consumer disaggregated SoCs with all of its problems. Consumer will just buy an product and compare to what they have.
Yep lol.
He isn't the first person I see complaining about MTL responsiveness. If QCOM beats Intel here, it's all fair. Consumer shouldn't be expected to excuse issues due to x,y,z.
Yep. Strongly suspect the tile is an issue and migration to P cores is being throttled for “battery life”, and probably even then they get put to E Cores at clocks way too low for interactivity way too often. I suspect Lunar Lake being on-die for the LPE E cores and Skymont improving will ease this and allow better ramping too, but by how much? Tough to say.

Frankly it’s all a crutch for the fact that their main cores suck on power due to architecture and the ring either on idle or dynamic power. IOW “fixing this” on MTL would cause some other issues that people wouldn’t like.

Again we’ll see how Lunar Lake is but I still expect that the responsiveness will be inferior relative to what you can get with Apple or Qualcomm, but definitely improved still.


The fact that Qualcomm doesn’t have this crutch and can just do P Cores x 8 to 12 with great performance, efficiency and battery life is telling and where Intel and AMD really should be. E cores are great but I suspect they won’t use them like Intel is when they come.