Proof that Toyota is going to take over the world...

[mwmorph]

what is it there, something like $6-8 dollars a gallon?

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
what is it there, something like $6-8 dollars a gallon?

Between $3 and $4 a gallon in Greece, depending on where you go. I assume most of Europe is the same.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: SuperTool
So where is the proof that Toyota is going to take over the world? Do they have patent on the electric motor, regenerative braking, or batteries?
Also, I wouldn't pay $3500 for a hybrid option even at these gas prices.

What will you do when our gas prices catch up with Europe?

Do what the Europeans do. Get a diesel.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

For customers who want fuel economy to save money, there are many other cheaper technologies available, such as cylinder deactivation, clean diesel, turbocharging, ethanol and six-speed transmissions, which all give fuel economy benefits at a lower cost by hybrids.

But analyst Noble says Toyota warns against automakers believing internal-combustion advances will be enough to thwart hybrids.

"Any of the internal combustion technologies the others are proposing can be incorporated into hybrids anyway," he says. "While others wait, Toyota's lead will increase with market experience and they will advance their technological edge."

Seeing as hybrid technology is still the most expensive of any of these options for the fuel economy benefit it creates, I'd say they still have a long way to go. Even if gas prices broke $3 a gallon in the U.S., the extra $3500 you paid on the sticker would still have bought more gasoline than most people could have burned in a few years on a compact car getting 30 mpg.

Basically, until they can make a hybrid version of a car for under $1000 extra, I'm not impressed.

I agree. Not to mention any additional maintience costs that a vehicle as complex as a hybrid would likely incur.

 

[mwmorph]

meh, my friend in england pays around $7-8 a gallon in london. didnt know it was os (relatively) low in some parts of europe.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Civic Hybrid - Cheaper, better real-world MPG, and doesn't look like a jellybean on Lego wheels.

- M4H

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
meh, my friend in england pays around $7-8 a gallon in london. didnt know it was os (relatively) low in some parts of europe.

Blame the government for that one...

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: SuperTool
So where is the proof that Toyota is going to take over the world? Do they have patent on the electric motor, regenerative braking, or batteries?
Also, I wouldn't pay $3500 for a hybrid option even at these gas prices.

What will you do when our gas prices catch up with Europe?

Do what the Europeans do. Get a diesel.

Isn't Diesel already way more than gas?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: SuperTool
So where is the proof that Toyota is going to take over the world? Do they have patent on the electric motor, regenerative braking, or batteries?
Also, I wouldn't pay $3500 for a hybrid option even at these gas prices.

What will you do when our gas prices catch up with Europe?

Do what the Europeans do. Get a diesel.

Isn't Diesel already way more than gas?

In CA, it's about the same as premium. I remember because some redneck asked me on I5 gas station yesterday where the diesel pump was. BTW, I paid $2.80 per gallon for premium

 

[mwmorph]

but diesel gets abour 1/3 to 1/4 better mileage than gas.

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

For customers who want fuel economy to save money, there are many other cheaper technologies available, such as cylinder deactivation, clean diesel, turbocharging, ethanol and six-speed transmissions, which all give fuel economy benefits at a lower cost by hybrids.

But analyst Noble says Toyota warns against automakers believing internal-combustion advances will be enough to thwart hybrids.

"Any of the internal combustion technologies the others are proposing can be incorporated into hybrids anyway," he says. "While others wait, Toyota's lead will increase with market experience and they will advance their technological edge."

Seeing as hybrid technology is still the most expensive of any of these options for the fuel economy benefit it creates, I'd say they still have a long way to go. Even if gas prices broke $3 a gallon in the U.S., the extra $3500 you paid on the sticker would still have bought more gasoline than most people could have burned in a few years on a compact car getting 30 mpg.

Basically, until they can make a hybrid version of a car for under $1000 extra, I'm not impressed.

I agree. Not to mention any additional maintience costs that a vehicle as complex as a hybrid would likely incur.

Yeah, maintaining 2 engines isn't an ideal solution, not to mention the huge battery packs that go with an electric motor.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

For customers who want fuel economy to save money, there are many other cheaper technologies available, such as cylinder deactivation, clean diesel, turbocharging, ethanol and six-speed transmissions, which all give fuel economy benefits at a lower cost by hybrids.

But analyst Noble says Toyota warns against automakers believing internal-combustion advances will be enough to thwart hybrids.

"Any of the internal combustion technologies the others are proposing can be incorporated into hybrids anyway," he says. "While others wait, Toyota's lead will increase with market experience and they will advance their technological edge."

Seeing as hybrid technology is still the most expensive of any of these options for the fuel economy benefit it creates, I'd say they still have a long way to go. Even if gas prices broke $3 a gallon in the U.S., the extra $3500 you paid on the sticker would still have bought more gasoline than most people could have burned in a few years on a compact car getting 30 mpg.

Basically, until they can make a hybrid version of a car for under $1000 extra, I'm not impressed.

I agree. Not to mention any additional maintience costs that a vehicle as complex as a hybrid would likely incur.

Yeah, maintaining 2 engines isn't an ideal solution, not to mention the huge battery packs that go with an electric motor.

Not to mention the longevity and decreasing performance of batteries over time.

 

[OulOat]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

For customers who want fuel economy to save money, there are many other cheaper technologies available, such as cylinder deactivation, clean diesel, turbocharging, ethanol and six-speed transmissions, which all give fuel economy benefits at a lower cost by hybrids.

But analyst Noble says Toyota warns against automakers believing internal-combustion advances will be enough to thwart hybrids.

"Any of the internal combustion technologies the others are proposing can be incorporated into hybrids anyway," he says. "While others wait, Toyota's lead will increase with market experience and they will advance their technological edge."

Seeing as hybrid technology is still the most expensive of any of these options for the fuel economy benefit it creates, I'd say they still have a long way to go. Even if gas prices broke $3 a gallon in the U.S., the extra $3500 you paid on the sticker would still have bought more gasoline than most people could have burned in a few years on a compact car getting 30 mpg.

Basically, until they can make a hybrid version of a car for under $1000 extra, I'm not impressed.

I agree. Not to mention any additional maintience costs that a vehicle as complex as a hybrid would likely incur.

Yeah, maintaining 2 engines isn't an ideal solution, not to mention the huge battery packs that go with an electric motor.

Wonder how much that's going to cost to replace

 

[maddogchen]

too bad I can't afford hybrids. hopefully my 96 maxima can last another 5 years and hybrid prices go down and their performance improves so I can get a reasonably priced one.

 

[NL5]

Diesel's additional mpg is not enough too offset the additional cost.

I agree that hybrids aren't a viable soultion - yet. There will come a day - soon - where gas prices will force the development of something better.

Oh, and BTW - the additional maintenance on the engine is minimal, as the electric motor is VERY simple, and it takes a lot of the stress off the engine. However,as several have pointed out, wait till you replace the batteries! That is the stumbling block right now - they are expensive, and inefficient.

 

[Kipper]

There is a reason why GM is late to the party. It's also part of the reason why their stock price tanked 14% in one day.

 

[AnyMal]

I'm all for it.

<------ 1994 Corolla, 120k miles, still going strong.

 

[brigden]

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease
There is a reason why GM is late to the party. It's also part of the reason why their stock price tanked 14% in one day.

That and their cars are crap.

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: NL5
Diesel's additional mpg is not enough too offset the additional cost.

Some turbodiesels can pull off 60+ mpg. I'd have to say that's definitely worth it.

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

Originally posted by: NL5
Diesel's additional mpg is not enough too offset the additional cost.

Some turbodiesels can pull off 60+ mpg. I'd have to say that's definitely worth it.

Not vs. a hybird at 53 mpg.......

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

Originally posted by: NL5
Diesel's additional mpg is not enough too offset the additional cost.

Some turbodiesels can pull off 60+ mpg. I'd have to say that's definitely worth it.

Not vs. a hybird at 53 mpg.......

In real-world tests, most hybrids are around 45 mpg.

 

[randomlinh]

wired has an article on hybrid technology... and how toyota is supreme. Prius outsells honda's stuff like mad. Nissan said "ef it, we're just going to license the stuff for our altima hybrid." Ford goes "shoot, our team basically came up w/ what toyota has.. umm.. we'll just license it and keep from any lawsuits."

The only question is, will technology advance fast enough to say... reduce the battery weight and size.. and keep the price low....

 

[mwmorph]

battery is he only limit factro. electric motors are just big magnets. easy to replace, inexpensive. it's the battery tjhat will kill the deal. we need better batteries.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: lnguyen
wired has an article on hybrid technology... and how toyota is supreme. Prius outsells honda's stuff like mad. Nissan said "ef it, we're just going to license the stuff for our altima hybrid." Ford goes "shoot, our team basically came up w/ what toyota has.. umm.. we'll just license it and keep from any lawsuits."

The only question is, will technology advance fast enough to say... reduce the battery weight and size.. and keep the price low....

Nissan said it's only interested in hybrids to improve their average fuel economy in places like CA. And yes, Ford basically came up with what Toyota has, a hybrid car. No surprise since that's what they were trying to come up with. I would much rather they spent that R&D money to bring the larger displacement Duratec out to market faster or develop new RWD platforms, something their customers are actually willing to pay good money for.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: lnguyen
wired has an article on hybrid technology... and how toyota is supreme. Prius outsells honda's stuff like mad. Nissan said "ef it, we're just going to license the stuff for our altima hybrid." Ford goes "shoot, our team basically came up w/ what toyota has.. umm.. we'll just license it and keep from any lawsuits."

The only question is, will technology advance fast enough to say... reduce the battery weight and size.. and keep the price low....

Link?