Analog
Lifer
- Jan 7, 2002
- 12,755
- 3
- 0
For customers who want fuel economy to save money, there are many other cheaper technologies available, such as cylinder deactivation, clean diesel, turbocharging, ethanol and six-speed transmissions, which all give fuel economy benefits at a lower cost by hybrids
hybrids already use cylinder deactivation. ethanol isnt widespread enough to be even nearly viable, turbocharging? how does that save you on fuel? it also leads to dreaded turbo lag, expensive matinence(past 60-100kmiles, a turbo is almost guranteed to need major repairs or replacement). as for diesle, it would be easy enough to make a diesel hybrid 6spd powertrain, but americans are so turned off by diesel, that it wont work anytime soon.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.04/hybrid.html
I'm assuming that's the same article, I have the paper version. For the record though, while the technology is cool, and you get to punch a few extra miles per gallon... it's still a long ways off from being practical.
No, hes just stupid... Because those "dream brands" are actually degrading in quality and it's quite ignorant to say "I will only buy mercedes and BMW" since toyota's reliability is HIGHER than those companies. If you want a reliable luxury car, get a lexus because they are wonderful cars.
Or simply design a car with no balls.
A car with roughly as much room as a Corolla but half the HP gets great mileage? :Q
And then of course, there's the Insight which gets a combined 50 mpg, while producing 73 HP, seating two, and weighing just about 1800 lbs.
50 mpg certainly sounds impressive...until you realize that Honda sold a gas-only car with similar power, seating, and weight, 20 years ago. This car, the CRX, also got a combined 50 mpg.
Are hybrids really the answer? Batteries are heavy and expensive to replace.
How long are they expected to last?
What happened to the days of making simple, lightweight commuter cars?
I get about 37 city/45 highway in my '95 Sentra on regular 87.
Sure it may not have all the technology and gadgets of todays cars, but it gets me safely and economically from A to B.
The car makers should stop stuffing cars with big engines and unnecessary features.
Keep the cost and weight low.
Forget about expensive hybrids and go back to the roots of making simple cars.
How long are they expected to last?
What happened to the days of making simple, lightweight commuter cars?
I get about 37 city/45 highway in my '95 Sentra on regular 87.
Sure it may not have all the technology and gadgets of todays cars, but it gets me safely and economically from A to B.
The car makers should stop stuffing cars with big engines and unnecessary features.
Keep the cost and weight low.
Forget about expensive hybrids and go back to the roots of making simple cars.
It is hard to say which technology is better at the moment, however I believe that hybrid have a leg up in the near future. All engine improvements and leaner fuel burning technique can be incorporate into the hybrid as the article suggest, therefore hybrid is not a lost. The only concern is the added weight of the engine and more moving parts in a hybrid. But, hybrid might prolong the life of the engine because it elevates hard work from the combustion engine (less hard reving), and electric motors are quite reliable.
Does anyone get the feeling that Toyota is just using the Prius as a smokescreen?
Toyota gets to advertise itself as a green car company, despite having nine SUVs in its lineup when you factor in the forthcoming FJ Cruiser.
Toyota gets to advertise itself as a green car company, despite having nine SUVs in its lineup when you factor in the forthcoming FJ Cruiser.
Yawp. Good aerodynamics also help. But yes, car companies know most of the joy in owning a hybrid is being able to let everyone on the street know you have one...which partially explains why the Civic Hybrid isn't nearly as popular as the Prius.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
Now add in the cost of replacing the batteries 3X's & you'll have a realistic figure...
How much are the batteries?
PricklyPete
Lifer
- Sep 17, 2002
- 14,582
- 162
- 106
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Yeah....but you had to get really close to know it wasn't gas-only
Yeah, as it was passing me I saw 'Hybrid' on the back.
And I never see Priuses or Insights on the road, I guess my area isn't full of hippies.
OS
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 15,581
- 1
- 76
You guys need to look more in depth before beating on the battery issue.
Ford's Escape hybrid uses something like 100 D cell nimh batteries. At bulk cost, they're probably like 3-4 dollars a piece, so even if you have to replace the batteries, it's possible to do it as low as 300-400 dollars a set. I believe other manufacturers are taking the same route of using off the shelf cell sizes.
Of course if you buy them from the dealer, it'll cost you an arm, leg and testicle, but that's the same as with anything else car related. But if the market for hybrids gets big enough, you'll probably see battery refurbishing shops replacing battery packs for ~$500.
At anyrate, I've read stories where businesses running small fleets of hybrids getting 200K miles out of them already and not needing replacement batteries. Honda says the batteries in their hybrids are expected to last the life of the vehicle. The battery thing is a non issue.
As gas approaches ~$2.75 a gallon in some regions, for those who drive 500 miles a week or more, it is possible to recoup the 3-4K initial cost of a hybrid variant by the time car payments are done. If you keep the vehicle longer, everything else is extra savings. This technoloy is pretty forward looking, gas will not get any cheaper as time goes in. We will see consistently $3/gallon gas in some regions in the next 5 years or so, at which time hybrid technology will also achieve economy of scale.
Also as for the tax deduction, it has gotten extended several times since it's inception and will probably be extended again before 2006.
Ford's Escape hybrid uses something like 100 D cell nimh batteries. At bulk cost, they're probably like 3-4 dollars a piece, so even if you have to replace the batteries, it's possible to do it as low as 300-400 dollars a set. I believe other manufacturers are taking the same route of using off the shelf cell sizes.
Of course if you buy them from the dealer, it'll cost you an arm, leg and testicle, but that's the same as with anything else car related. But if the market for hybrids gets big enough, you'll probably see battery refurbishing shops replacing battery packs for ~$500.
At anyrate, I've read stories where businesses running small fleets of hybrids getting 200K miles out of them already and not needing replacement batteries. Honda says the batteries in their hybrids are expected to last the life of the vehicle. The battery thing is a non issue.
As gas approaches ~$2.75 a gallon in some regions, for those who drive 500 miles a week or more, it is possible to recoup the 3-4K initial cost of a hybrid variant by the time car payments are done. If you keep the vehicle longer, everything else is extra savings. This technoloy is pretty forward looking, gas will not get any cheaper as time goes in. We will see consistently $3/gallon gas in some regions in the next 5 years or so, at which time hybrid technology will also achieve economy of scale.
Also as for the tax deduction, it has gotten extended several times since it's inception and will probably be extended again before 2006.
Definately.
The Pruis brings down their average fuel economy. I wonder how the sales of the Toyota SUVs compare to the sales of their passenger cars?
i don't care how many hybrid models toyota brings to the market. as long as they continue to make the most boring (and increasingly often, the ugliest) imports in the world, they won't be getting any of my money.
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