Poll: Good parental decision or bad?

[UltraQuiet]

<< Although in this case the rule set down by her parents is not unreasonable the punishment IS. It seems that as people get older they forget what it's like to be a kid. Tell me, do you really think that this girl will respond well to this punishment? I can tell you it won't, and I didn't have to read romeo and juliet to believe it. >>


That is your opinion based on what? Do you have any kids? No, you've already said you don't therefore your opinion is irrelevant. Trust me on this Skoorb, when you and Mrs. Skoorb have children your feelings on this are going to change. Trust me, you won't see the unreasonablness (is that a word?) in any of this. Parents want their kids to be happy and I would be willing to bet money that if he reached out to them and agrees to their rules, they would accomodate the kids and let them see each other.

 

[obiwaynekenobi]

"God said so?"

That is a piss poor excuse. God gave us Free Agency to give the chance to make our own decisions our own choices and our own mistakes. Granted you choose to break those rules and now she has to deal with the consaquences. I believe in christianity but there is such a thing as fanatasim, People take things to far. people take things word for word when cleary in most cases they are meant for our own interpatation and not for someone elses.

Piss poor indeed, What the real problem here is that are scared of having there daughter "Violated" by anyone until marriage so they are doing what they feel is nessisary to "protect her" granted I personally feel that it's a bit extreme. What they should be doing is sitting the two of you down and talking to you both together rather than cutting you off completely. Maybe make it a requirement that she dates one other guy a month, or something but this cutting it all off from you is a bit over protective and slightly pathetic in my parental opinion. I agree with the above comment. either she's going rebel and make things worse or you two have lost your relationship on the count that her paretns are pinheads

 

[djheater]

<<
That is your opinion based on what? Do you have any kids? No, you've already said you don't therefore your opinion is irrelevant. Trust me on this Skoorb, when you and Mrs. Skoorb have children your feelings on this are going to change. Trust me, you won't see the unreasonablness (is that a word?) in any of this. Parents want their kids to be happy and I would be willing to bet money that if he reached out to them and agrees to their rules, they would accomodate the kids and let them see each other. >>



I'm a parent of two and I find it unreasonable. Does that make me not as good a parent as you? Having children does not automatically make you an expert parent, and Skoorb's opinion is by no means irrelevant. You ahould take that back.

 

[StageLeft]

<< That is your opinion based on what? Do you have any kids? No, you've already said you don't therefore your opinion is irrelevant. Trust me on this Skoorb, when you and Mrs. Skoorb have children your feelings on this are going to change. Trust me, you won't see the unreasonablness (is that a word?) in any of this. Parents want their kids to be happy and I would be willing to bet money that if he reached out to them and agrees to their rules, they would accomodate the kids and let them see each other. >>

So just because I have no experience in the area means I am irrelevant? I simply cannot even be bothered to go into why that is a terribly ignorant thing to say, but lets just leave it at that so that I don't have to show you up.

While we're on topic please note that other parents here also believe it is unreasonable. Furthermore I consider my age an asset in this conversation. I don't know how old you are, but as somebody who remembers what it is like to be a teenager (since I was one half a decade ago) I am more likely to be able to appreciate what these two are going through. I have no doubt the parents think it is in their child's best interest, but that doesn't make it so. Perhaps in time you've forgotten what it is like to be a frustrated teen lacking in any real control over your life commanded by your parents and teachers. When you already resent the extreme restrictions placed upon your own life further restrictions serve to do nothing but increase that resentment and make you more resistant to those commanding forces.

Unless there is something about these two peoples relationship that we are unaware of telling the 16 year old she can not see her boyfriend "until she has grown up" AkA "Until we say, which make be a month or 3 years" serves no good. That is a poor parental decision regardless of the intentions behind it.

 

[BruNgoLD]

i know it sucks, but shes still young, especially in the eyes of her parents, so you can do nothing but respect their decision

if it was meant to be then ull be together later

everything has a way of working out in the end .. good luck man

 

[StageLeft]

Well I don't wanna get into a big thing over it on second thoughts, so all I'll leave it at is there are varied opinions on this. Most say it's a bad decision, but most of us are not parents. This does not mean our opinions are irrelevant, since far too many parents I fear forget what it's like and feels to be young, and I vowed I never would. I'd undergone far too many rules as a kid to ever want to inflict them upon my own children and I know I'll lean towards a free and liberal parenting role.

These two parents should try to put themselves in their daughter's shoes and do their best to try and understand what she is going through and how she sees it. I know she doesn't like it and she may very well "hate" her parents for doing it. I'd only put my kids under that if it was a truly critical thing I was trying to do, and keeping their daughter from a virgin religious 19 year old is not one of the biggest things I'm going to ever be afraid of happening to my daughter.

 

[Mavrick]

I don't think God in any way would tell them not to let her daughter go with you. There IS such thing as fanatism, and they (the parents) are a good example of it.

Of course your girlfriend wants some slack from her parents, and of course she disobey some rules, but I wouldn't go as far as saying she should concentrate on her relationship with God instead of you. If you both like each other, there really isn't much wrong.... (you seem pretty christian too, so they should be quite happy... believe me, many people are much less believer than you are...)

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< So just because I have no experience in the area means I am irrelevant? I simply cannot even be bothered to go into why that is a terribly ignorant thing to say, but lets just leave it at that so that I don't have to show you up. >>


Blast away my young friend, I have absolutely no fear of being shown up as a parent by you. For the record I am 37 and I have 2 kids. When people these ages (16 and 19) become entrusted in your care permanently and are no longer your peers, which they are now,
your attitude towards these types of situations will change. Trust me on this. I know. I can remember very clearly being extremely pissed at my father almost constantly from the time I was 15 until I left for the Navy at 19. I swore I would never do those things to my kids. Guess what, that didn't survive past the first time they did the same sh!t I did. It is very niaive to think you are going to be able to parent a certain way based on the fact that you were once a kid. This naivete stems from inexperience and the sum of those equals irrelevance. Let me put it another way. When I have a problem with one of my young sailors I don't go to another young sailor to ask him how he would handle it. I go to another Chief and ask him how he would handle it. And don't think it is not the same thing. I have been sent many peoples kids to raise since I have been in the Navy.

Don't get me wrong Skoorb. You appear to be a thoughtful/intelligent young man. You and Mrs. Skoorb will probably make fine parents. But this is not something you do by watching or reading a book. Experience is the only thing that counts.

 

[ImTyping]

Funny how people who do not have kids think they know how to be a parent.

Look, dude--they are her parents, and what they say goes. The fact that you cannot deal with that shows us exactly how mature YOU are. Why don't you just get her knocked up? That would solve everything!!!

 

[Palek]

<< Now. In our culture, to my knowledge, we don't actively go out of our way to teach people how to have mature, real relationships. This is a shame, and it leads to only 2 possible methods. Observation, which only takes you so far, and then experience. Now to sit there and say they arn't old enough to know about a real relationship and then understand that the only way to have a real relationship is through experience is quite the idiotic paradox. >>



First of all, you and your partner both have to BE mature yourselves, only then will you even have a chance at starting and maintaining a mature relationship. I cannot believe that some here actually think that a 16-year-old is old enough for a serious relationship. I remember what I was like when I was 16. Granted, I was pretty immature even for my age, but I did not know any other 16-year-olds that were ready for love and commitment. You know NOTHING about the world when you are 16. Sure, all the teenagers on the board will get very upset with me now and tell me off. And these would be the same people who thought that ceLLriOT's girlfriend's parents made an unreasonable decision. But you do not know what it is like to be a responsible adult member of your society. Let me ask you this. Are you ready to submit to the authority of your elders? Are you ready to fulfill your responsibilities? Are you ready to make decisions knowing that they will affect everyone around you? All the people enticing ceLLriOT and his girlfriend to rebel are basically telling them to be selfish, irresponsible and disobedient. Do you honestly think that is the mature thing to do? If they cannot obey simple rules set by the girls parents, are they really ready for a serious relationship and its consequences that require more commitment, selflessness and sense of responsibility than anything else they will ever do?

And as for teaching people about real relationships, I believe that children who grow up with the support of two loving parents learn enough about real relationships. Being a Christian and knowing God's will for you also provides more than enough to rely on when it comes to relationships. And before you bite at me for even mentioning Christ, remember that ceLLriOT is a Christian and so is his girlfriend, as are the parents. Leave your hatred at the door and if you have nothing else to say other than "You are a ******* religious freak", then please consider not posting at all. You are not helping anyone with those kinds of comments, you are only comforting yourself, which is an incredibly selfish thing to do.



<< When a 16 year old starts disregarding her parents rules it is time to look at the rules and ask why. I agree with your actively part but I disagree with your how and why. Disregard = discontent. Find the root of the problem and you will have the complete solution. The root of the problem could be lack of attention to your daughter, her need for another person to console in (most people like having someone to talk to who isn't their overbearing parents), or she could be just rebelling against the rules already in place. Saying 'we just need to get more traditional' is NOT a solution to the problem and you are a fool to believe so. Being traditional is just a way to cover up problems in fear and burden. >>



I do not want to make any gross generalizations here, but I was wondering if my experiences were common. My sister went through a very rough period when she was around 16. (So did my brother but at a younger age; I was the middle child who tends to be the calm one according to some...) All she did was disobeying my parents. She rebelled against everything they said and asked her to do or not to do. She got pretty nasty with all of us within the immediate family. She was an angel to everyone else while we got to see her bad side. My parents were trying to protect her and did have some strict rules (curfew etc.), but overall they were not unreasonable at all. What I am trying to say is that my sister was totally illogical and had no real reason to rebel. She just did because she wanted to. My parents did not give in and I thought it was good that they did not. I am sure my sister agrees with them now.

It seems to me that rebellion against one's parents is something that most kids will go through at some point in their lives, trying to test and push the limits. But that does not mean that parents should let them run free. There is no democracy in a family. Should there be? Yeah, all the kids seem to think so, but who is more capable of making wise decisions? The parents or the teenager who, driven by hormones and whatnot, wants to go out into the world and have it all? Naturally parents will make mistakes too, but they are much better qualified to be leaders of the family than their children.

ceLLriOT, I pray that this incredibly difficult challenge will strengthen your faith and make you a better man (Hebrews 12:7-11). No matter how difficult your situation is, God will show you a way throught it, in fact it seems like you are pretty much on the right track. I know you fear for your girlfriend, but there is not much you can do if she continues to rebel, besides praying for her. I think (I might be wrong) Linuxboy a while back said something to the effect that you should not be praying for the two of you to get back together but that God's will be done in your lives, and also for her spiritual health. (Sorry if I misquoted you, Linuxboy...) But you probably know this anyway!

You also said that you would like to be there for her as a Christian friend to support her in her walk. It seems that might not be the best thing as it would further complicate your situation, and you definitely do not need that right now. It might be better for her to seek the company of a female Christian counselor or a female singles' study group at her church. Taking a break is certainly a good way to give both of you time to think everything through and to strengthen your relationship with the Lord.

One more thing... No matter how God guides the two of you regarding the future of your relationship, just remember that total submission to the parents' decisions is what you need right now to earn their trust. Do not doubt the validity of the rules they set. Accept them. They are her parents after all(Hebrews 13:17). If you are sure they are being unreasonable, instead of going behind their backs, pray to God for the right words to say and confront them in love.

God bless,
Palek

 

[jooxed]

Firstly, God doesn't tell you what to do. I went to a Christian school, attended a Christian church for 10 years. Though I don't follow now or even believe in Christianity, in my eyes its an organized CULT. And I can say that cuz I lived with it for 10 years.

You are younger though, and so is she, even more so than you. I'd give it a bit. Stay in touch with her and see when you can but for the next while just do what they ask and be very careful of the time you do spend together. Next time her mom comes to the door, simply don't answer and be smarter get your girl to park like a street over or something. There are ways around everything even cult driven parents.

Think harder next time!

 

[skace]

You people continue to say that someone at 16 knows absolutely nothing, while continuing to ignore the fact that to experience is to educate. You fail to realize that it is these experiences that educate and these are the reasons that when you are 30 you know more, because YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH ALL THIS BEFORE.

And I am sick of hearing about how superior you are because you have kids and I don't. Listen gimpy, any dimwitted primate can go reproduce, how do you think most species have been able to survive? Just because you have kids doesn't make you the most amazing fricken parent to ever grace the earth.

When you lock your kid up until the age of 18, you havn't taught them anything. You have just delayed their fvckups until a later date when you arn't responsible for them. GOOD TEACHING MASTER. And by that point in their life, they won't tell you when they do screwup because they hate you so much from the life you put them through. Thats right, most kids turn their problems to other kids and peers over their parents because of most parents ideas of resolving these problems.

DaveSohmer, you (ironically) say parents want their kids to be happy. Yet they crush their hopes and dreams to prove principal? Only a sad individual puts a principle over love. She broke a rule, so she has some learning to do. Does she deserve to have her relationships destroyed?

I agree with Skoorb in that this was a classic case of rules set for expected failures. Much like asking your son to get 100% in every class or he gets his wrist broken. They set the rules knowing she would break them, that is why they showed up at his house. They didn't try to help her with the rules, they WANTED her to fail them.

Oh and Palek, here is something for you to think about according to your example. My sister left the house at the age of 14. At that age she went to Exeter Academy. At the age of 17 she was in college. She is one of the smartest and kind hearted people I know. I believe this to be because my parents let her spread her wings at an early age and take in lifes experiences but from the right people (a mix of professors and dorm life that living on an academy provides). She knew how to deal with other people by the age of 16. Did she have her problems? Yes. Did she overcome them? Yep.

If this post sounds angry, it is because I am. I am angry with people like DaveSohmer who think they can invalidate my opinion because they are somehow superior. Let me tell you, any kid growing up has experienced parenting first hand. I happened to be a very observant kid growing up. I know what my parents did right and what they did wrong. No parent ever does everything 100% right. I also know what my friends parents did right and wrong. I had an asian friend growing up whose parents were overbearing just like this girls. They literally drove the kid to a nicotine addiction and alcohol. Why? Because when he was at home he was so filled with hate and despise for the rules his parents laid down, that when he left the house he did everything they didn't want him to do, EVERYTHING. And he did it to spite them. He got awesome grades in highschool, he did terrible in college. That is the burden of being sheltered.

I will leave with this thought: All you people saying "funny how those who don't have kids think they know how to be a parent", all it takes is 1 night at a pub to become a parent. It's not big achievement.

 

[breezeman]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I can see why her parents are nervous. Sixteen and still a virgin - her parents have preseved this so far, "if we can just get her through to adulthood!" I think you should show your adult side and been honest. " Girlfriend parents, your daughter has been a bit compulsive lately in regards to our relationship since you imposed the new rules, and I'm sorry for that. We're both virgins, and I want to keep it that way as long as possible - this is for both for your peace of mind as well the health of our relationship. Because I care about your daughter a great deal"

Don't tell him you love her - he won't believe it possible at your age, and will probably think your confusing love and lust.

Convince her dad that you are a protective element in her life. Trust me, he wants her to be happy, but trusts her the same if not less than he trusts you. The best thing he can hear is that your not not going to take herr innocents or physical person away from him!

My dad once said:

"With son and you have one penis to worry about, with a daughter and you have thousands of them!"

Think about it, talk to her parents. Fathers like guys they trust. They trust guys they think hold the same values they do.

Talk to him. - But don't kiss his as*, they hate that.

My 2 cents

-B

 

[Palek]

Dear Skace,

First of all, let me tell you that I am not a parent so I have no experience under my belt, but like you yourself said, we do learn about parenting from our parents. So I guess I am in no better position here than you are. But I was not trying to support my argument with experience anyway.

It seems you are indeed a little angry and in your anger missed a few points here and there. I did say in my post that I was trying not to make a generalization and that I brought up an example wondering whether my idea had some truth behind it or not. It seems I might have been wrong. I should have said, "A lot of kids go through a rebellion stage". I could only speak from experience, I had no statistical data to back it up with. However I did see many children rebel against their parents, sometimes for a reason but mostly without. My parents set some rules for my sister and did not let my sister break those rules and control them with tantrums and moods. And guess what, she still managed to become a very warm-hearted and kind person who was in no way scarred by the house rules. I, on the other hand, just like your sister, left home at 14 and went to boarding school and then on to university. My parents basically let me go, gave me total freedom over most of the decisions I had to make from then on, and I did make it through. I am here, alive and well (I think) and I see nothing wrong with the way my parents raised me. We are talking about the same parents and look how differently they treated me and my sister.

There are many ways to bring up a child I am sure, and many of them can be right way. Some parents are more protective than others, and some children may need more clear-cut boundaries than others. One child may handle strict rules very well while another may rebel against them. Children with a lot of freedom could use that freedom to make all the right decisions OR totally mess up their lives. There is no one right way. Parents that know and love their children and want the best for them are, I think, capable of making a balanced decision about how to bring up their children. The child might not appreciate it at the time, but children who are raised in love will NEVER resent their parents. You have to trust me on that one.

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< I will leave with this thought: All you people saying "funny how those who don't have kids think they know how to be a parent", all it takes is 1 night at a pub to become a parent. It's not big achievement. >>


This one statement couldn't have proven my point any better if I had written it myself. Thank you.

 

[AaronP]

so, you're so positive she's gonna marry you eh? Dude, she's 16, the frontal lobe of her brain hasn't even finished growing yet. She will grow, go to college, get some life experience, and leave you in the dust. Why not find someone closer to your age? Or do girls who can vote intimidate you?

 

[skace]

Palek,
Only two things I will comment on.

"However I did see many children rebel against their parents, sometimes for a reason but mostly without."

There is always a reason, no matter how childish or silly it might have been at the time, the reason is there. In a family that maintains an open line of communication, it would be much easier to figure out the reason, then a family that just punishes everytime something is brought up.

"Children with a lot of freedom could use that freedom to make all the right decisions OR totally mess up their lives. There is no one right way."

There are 2 things you can do wrong teaching a kid. 1) Give them all the freedom in the world and not teach them anything. 2) Shelter them until the point at which they have to live on their own. The correct way is to introduce a variable into their life 1 at a time, through teaching them the correct way of doing it before they learn the wrong way. And when they do something wrong, you explain why it was wrong. "God told us so" does not suffice. Very few parents take this road. Very few parents have the patience to explain why something is wrong and not just "because I said so".

DaveSohmer,
"This one statement couldn't have proven my point any better if I had written it myself. Thank you."

I'm glad you don't just reveal the point you are referring to instead of being childish. If that point would be that only a parent has any say in this matter. Then I stand by that statement, even if you pretend it somehow backs you up. I've seen plenty of people get pregnant accidently and become parents overnight. They didn't become any more intelligent or qualified overnight. That was my point. If anything, they rushed into parenthood and ended up teaching a kid a broken set of values.

 

[mithrandir2001]

With parents like that, who needs marriage and in-laws? <shudder>

 

[JoeBaD]

IMO, you two blew it. You knew the rules. They seemed reasonable.

Her parents are just trying to protest her. She's only 16 for Christ's sakes and you are materially older. I think you and the girl should humbly apologise and ask forgiveness. Maybe that would show the parents that you are mature & responsible enough to continue the relationship.

Don't believe this crap that they are being too harsh. They are trying to protect their daughter. Remember, they have loved her a LOT longer than you.

 

[Hammer]

I'm only 23 years old, but if I had a 16 year old daughter dating a 19 year old, and they couldn't follow the rules set forth by me, and the guy was ignoring them and encouraging her to break them, well frankly, I would go ape$hit on his ass. You knew what you were getting into dating a 16 year old living with her parents, and have to deal with it.

 

[Alex]

<< I'm only 23 years old, but if I had a 16 year old daughter dating a 19 year old, and they couldn't follow the rules set forth by me, and the guy was ignoring them and encouraging her to break them, well frankly, I would go ape$hit on his ass. You knew what you were getting into dating a 16 year old living with her parents, and have to deal with it. >>



i see where hes coming from...

truth is thats how it works for younger girls and frankly you messed up to disobey their rules.

 

[Alex]

<< I guarantee that at the age of 19, you wouldn't even be dating my daugter if she was 16. I've got a gun and a shovel, and i know how to use them both. >>



LMAO!!!

 

[Palek]

<< There is always a reason, no matter how childish or silly it might have been at the time, the reason is there. In a family that maintains an open line of communication, it would be much easier to figure out the reason, then a family that just punishes everytime something is brought up. >>



Well, I guess if you call a silly reason a reason then there indeed is always a reason. I think we agree on this one. What we cannot ignore, though, is we do not know if the parents did try to communicate or how much communication there was. But I think you will agree that there has to be some form of discipline when a child does something wrong, even when they show remorse. The problem in this case was that the parents were initially, I think, quite reasonable and the punishment only got more severe because their daughter repeatedly crossed a line. I think there does come a time when you have to do more than just talk to your child. If they know that they can get away with anything without any punishment apart from a 30-minute speech from mum and dad, they will have no reason to obey their parents. Yes, I know that trust and respect should take care of that, but sometimes it just is not enough. Love can make you crazy and do things you otherwise would not do in your "right mind".

However I do agree with you that communication between parents and children is of utmost importance and should clear up and do away with any kind of confusion or misunderstanding.



<< There are 2 things you can do wrong teaching a kid. 1) Give them all the freedom in the world and not teach them anything. 2) Shelter them until the point at which they have to live on their own. The correct way is to introduce a variable into their life 1 at a time, through teaching them the correct way of doing it before they learn the wrong way. And when they do something wrong, you explain why it was wrong. "God told us so" does not suffice. Very few parents take this road. Very few parents have the patience to explain why something is wrong and not just "because I said so". >>



I think we agree on this one as well. But as for the "God told us so" bit, I do not think that was all the parents said. In case they did, I have to believe that they would realize that they owed a better explanation to their daughter and would tell her the reasons behind their decision. But I think we got a short version of the story and certain details were left out. Of course only ceLLriOT can tell us what really happened.

What I want to say with this is that we should not condemn the parents without knowing their side of the story and what exactly they went through that prompted them to discipline their daughter so strictly.

 

[Daishiki]

i think it's a strict decision that i don't like. even though God says to obey parents, it's a tough call. to be honest, even with such restrictions you two will find someway to spend time and be with each other. i wasn't supposed to have a gf in highschool and i managed to be with 3 (not at the same time). just don't give up and have faith. God already has something in mind for you two.

 

[ceLLriOT]

UPDATE
To let you all know how I've been going at this, I have remained without contact with my girl, even thought it has been a very big temptation. I just have to keep my purposes in mind, and I can stay away from her. Although it is not my nature to leave her like this, I do believe that she needs time to breathe. She has lost touch with God lately, as have I. She needs to stop rebelling and regain her trust from her parents before I come back into her life, and she needs to get back in touch with the original morals and values she had before she began having some troubles in her life (none of which had to do with me). She needs to strengthen her relationship with God, as do I. Only after this will I feel comfortable returning to her. Although I would still like to be a part of her life and help her in her journey and in her growth, I think that may not be possible. I had a very good two hour conversation with my girlfriend's Mom tonight, and it really helped me to see that her parents are doing this for the right reasons. She has now become completely grounded and lost all privelages because of more deception on her part, and I think that she will be okay. I really lost touch with my values too, and only very recently have I realized that. I need time too, and I think it will do us good in the long run. That's all. I will let you all know when anything changes, and thanks again for all of your insight (good and bad).