Poll: Good parental decision or bad?

[rgwalt]

Cellriot-

Glad to hear the news. It sounds like you are at peace with your decision, and that is terrific. The good news is that if God wants you to be with your ex, it will happen. Comforting thought, isn't it?

Ryan

 

[Palek]

<< It sounds like you are at peace with your decision, and that is terrific. The good news is that if God wants you to be with your ex, it will happen. Comforting thought, isn't it? >>



Amen!!!

You are taking all the right steps, ceLLriOT! I am very glad you got to talk to her Mum and sort things out. And like Ryan said, if God wants the two of you to get back together, His will will be revealed to you!

 

[skace]

"The problem in this case was that the parents were initially, I think, quite reasonable and the punishment only got more severe because their daughter repeatedly crossed a line. I think there does come a time when you have to do more than just talk to your child."

IMO If a child has a problem, you give them a punishment, and the problem escalates, then your punishment was not a resolve of the problem! If you continually think giving a greater punishment is going to finally stop the problem... it might, but what I am saying is that it won't be the correct way. The only way the problem will have stopped is the child finally figured out he/she could not win or could not afford the punishment AKA ruling by fear.

There is a point hidden underneath what you said that I agree with. That is that the parents should never be walked on by their kids. They need to be respected. I don't think punishment is the only way to guarentee this respect though.

Lets go back to his GF. Her parents continue punishing her, yet she continues rebelling. Why? Perhaps it is because she is tired of them spoon-feeding her their religious mix of proper, perfect values. Perhaps she has a need for relationships so great that she puts it above school, computer, phone, car, anything. If that is the case, is denying her that need going to solve anything? Absence makes the heart grow fonder. Just like bottled up rage, it builds until it cannot be contained and then bursts and the person goes overboard. Most relationship needs stem from lack of relationships with your own family (not sexual, just every day relationships mind you), which makes me question her parents also.

Nice update Cell. As an athiest I am confused by the "lost touch with god" stance. Did you kill someone recently? What values did you lose touch of?

Oh and if ANY of my younger years(ccd, catholic jr high, catholic high) serve me correct, "The good news is that if God wants you to be with your ex, it will happen" will NEVER happen. My understanding of the Christian god is that it does not interefere with mortal lives because that would provide proof of its existence. God does not play cupid. The only variable involved in whether you 2 ever become a couple, is your own feelings for each other. If she is feeling betrayed and lonely right now (by you and her parents), she will most likely abandon her infatuation with you and find someone else.

 

[ChrichtonsGirl]

<< << I will leave with this thought: All you people saying "funny how those who don't have kids think they know how to be a parent", all it takes is 1 night at a pub to become a parent. It's not big achievement. >>


This one statement couldn't have proven my point any better if I had written it myself. Thank you. >>





<< DaveSohmer,
"This one statement couldn't have proven my point any better if I had written it myself. Thank you."

I'm glad you don't just reveal the point you are referring to instead of being childish. If that point would be that only a parent has any say in this matter. Then I stand by that statement, even if you pretend it somehow backs you up. I've seen plenty of people get pregnant accidently and become parents overnight. They didn't become any more intelligent or qualified overnight. That was my point. If anything, they rushed into parenthood and ended up teaching a kid a broken set of values. >>



I'm not Dave, but I think I know exactly what he meant. If I've got it wrong, Dave will surely correct me.

The point is that parenting is the hardest job in the world if you have any intention of doing it right, and anyone who thinks parenting can be achieved by anyone who has a one night stand that results in a pregnancy is being clueless. Parenting has nothing to do with conception and everything to do with changing every single thing in your life to make room for a helpless being that will need your guidance and love to hopefully grow into a mature, responsible adult.

Parents do stuff wrong, make mistakes and generally screw up pretty frequently. But what makes a parent a parent and not simply an egg or sperm donor is that there is a committment to doing the right thing out of love and a desire to see your child grow up healthy and happy. Sometimes that means we make judgments based on painful experiences we had when we were kids or teenagers that we want to help our kids avoid. While the execution of this girls' parents' decision might not be what some people think is appropriate, they're not doing it to hurt their daughter. Which again, is why I repeat that the best way to handle it is to respect their authority, show that you have the maturity to listen to their concerns and the flexibility to work with them to resolve this.

Bitching about how it was a bad decision or that they're meanies out to break you up solves nothing. As does this endless debate over who's qualified to give advice. I've seen some excellent advice given by non-parents and parents alike. Just keep in mind that the advice from parents is giving you a different perspective, based on experience.

For anyone who says the act of having and raising children is meaningless and doesn't give you a wholly different perspective on parenting issues: I was you, and I was wrong. It changes everything.

 

[DougyDanger]

<< My understanding of the Christian god is that it does not interefere with mortal lives >>



Not true. I can list countless times God has worked in people's lives. From the apostle Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus, the miricles of Jesus and the disciples, to people today who are healed from terminal cancer (ie doctors say they have a week to live and the next day ALL the cancer is gone, and yes those are documented), to personal problems be handles in ways that can only be from God.

From my own experience I can see how God works in our lives. I can also tell you there are many times in the Bible where God works in the lives of 'mortals'. To say that God is a distant being who does not act in our lives is just not true. He frequently works in our lives (Jer. 29:11) and actually wants us to rely on Him (Do not be anxious about anything, but through prayer and petition present your request before God...don't remember reference).

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< I'm not Dave, but I think I know exactly what he meant. If I've got it wrong, Dave will surely correct me. >>


No corrections are necessary.


<< For anyone who says the act of having and raising children is meaningless and doesn't give you a wholly different perspective on parenting issues: I was you, and I was wrong. It changes everything. >>


This has been the point all along. Key words here: wholly different; changes everything. Parenting is something that is learned by doing or getting the advice of someone who has already done it. All other opinions are irrelevant to me and I would say to most parents. Sorry if that stings some of the people on this board. You're young and you'll get over it.

 

[AlastorX82]

Alright, once and for all, Shut the f&ucirc;ck up about "god". Its all bullsh&#297;t. The fact is, her parents are morons, and they messed up. Their decision will haunt them. If your love is as genuine as you claim, then no amount of overzealous religious idiocy will overcome that. Her parents don't stand a chance. Do whatever you want. If maintaining a standard of ignorance is part of her parent's child-rearing plan, then they need to (and will) lose their ability to control their child for a while, that will show them true parenting is about guiding your children, not leading them.

 

[Alex]

<< UPDATE
To let you all know how I've been going at this, I have remained without contact with my girl, even thought it has been a very big temptation. I just have to keep my purposes in mind, and I can stay away from her. Although it is not my nature to leave her like this, I do believe that she needs time to breathe. She has lost touch with God lately, as have I. She needs to stop rebelling and regain her trust from her parents before I come back into her life, and she needs to get back in touch with the original morals and values she had before she began having some troubles in her life (none of which had to do with me). She needs to strengthen her relationship with God, as do I. Only after this will I feel comfortable returning to her. Although I would still like to be a part of her life and help her in her journey and in her growth, I think that may not be possible. I had a very good two hour conversation with my girlfriend's Mom tonight, and it really helped me to see that her parents are doing this for the right reasons. She has now become completely grounded and lost all privelages because of more deception on her part, and I think that she will be okay. I really lost touch with my values too, and only very recently have I realized that. I need time too, and I think it will do us good in the long run. That's all. I will let you all know when anything changes, and thanks again for all of your insight (good and bad). >>



true... ya sound happy with yer decision and if ya are then good for you. i know i wouldnt be.

dont give her too long or you might just loose her, though.

 

[skace]

ChrichtonsGirl,
I agree with what you said and I think what you said agrees with why I said what I did. Parenting is a lot more than just having the kid, correct, that is why I do not agree with the statement Dave said which basically invalidated anyone without a kid. He basically said, anyone without a kid does not have a valid opinion in this thread, which is wrong, because they still have 90% of what is involved in parenting, their own experiences in life and growing up.

And FYI, here is another variable in the equation. Just because you had kids and it changed your perspective on parenting, it does not mean it changed it for the best. You could have given up on your kids or realized you couldn't make your innitial ideas work, but that doesn't mean they won't work for someone else. There are people out there that abuse their kids and their are people out there that have killed their kids. I bet if I asked them, they would say their perspective changed after they had kids, but does that justify their abuse/etc? No. Good parenting begins far before you have kids, that was my point and that is why every intelligent human being in this thread has something to contribute.

Doug,
Look, I don't want to get in a religious debate. I was simply stating that if he likes the girl he shouldn't be somehow hoping that god will hook him up a few years later. That is a good way to setup for a letdown. That is like me saying "Well I just came back from the car dealership and I could afford the BMW but I figured god will just hook me up with one later on down the road, so I didn't get it." Or how about I quit my job and just assume that if god wishes me to have money it will fall from the sky.

Dave,
"Parenting is something that is learned by doing or getting the advice of someone who has already done it."
Wrong. If that were true, then a baby could be a parent. Parenting is a reflection of ones own morals, values, and experiences growing up. Many parents base their own parenting on what their parents did or didn't do. They teach their kids based on things they found important growing up, or most of the time things they wish they had done better. This is usually called trying to relive your childhood through your children and is not the smartest thing to do, but that doesn't stop most parents.

Furthermore, Many MANY parents need far more advice than they are getting. And, besides ALL the things I have mentioned, the icing on the cake would have to be the fact that I am at an age where I could become a parent but choose otherwise. I have friends who are parents. It comes with the territory. They arn't bad parents and nor would I be.

 

[Palek]

It sounds like finally everyone is settling down...

skace, one issue we failed to touch upon is why all the parents on AT seemed to take the side of the girlfriend's parents and why most of the younger members contributed with posts that basically came down to something like "the girl's parents are jerks".

I think Dave might have said what he said because most of the advice coming from the "younger generation" seemed rather self-centered and hardly anyone considered even for a SECOND that there were some valid reasons behind the parents' decisions. Even you do not want to admit that there could be a REMOTE possibility that they were acting in the best interest of their daughter. You are holding a grudge against them big enough for the whole board. You are not willing to forgive. You condemned them and obviously do not want to give them a chance. You do not even know these people yet you sound totally convinced that they were wrong.

I remember you telling us about a friend of yours, so I understand your sentiments, I see where you are coming from. However the fact that you know some people whose lives were completely ruined by their parents does NOT guarantee that all kids raised by strict parents will be messed up by the time they reach 18. I am most certain that such problems will be avoided in a family where discipline is based on love, trust and a general understanding between parents and children.

My point is that love and discipline need to go hand in hand. If you want to truly love your children, you need to discipline them, and your discipline will fail if you do not love them. Whether the girlfriend's parents did truly love the girl or not, that will be revealed through the outcome of this story... But remember that you can make all the right decisions and still not succeed. A job done perfectly can still end in failure.

One more thing... I think I understand what Dave is saying. I do not completely agree with him, for I believe that people without any experience in parenthood can still provide good advice, but I do think that parents do have much more to offer in this area. Unless you have a child yourself, you will not be able to completely understand the true nature of love parents feel for, and the responsibility they carry for the actions of their child, the burden they have to protect their child from harm.

So this is where most people, responding to this post by unleashing their anger at the parents, failed. They did not even try to imagine themselves in the parents' shoes. They failed to offer insight to ceLLriOT about how the girl's parents might have felt about the issue. This is where the parents of AT came in. They gave us that insight.

You need to know both sides of the story.

 

[Passions]

crap like that really makes me hate Christians sometimes. bunch of conservative flamers should goto hell.

 

[Mustanggt]

I have 2 girls and untill you have been a parent you will never understand where they are coming from. first off my daughter at age 16 I would never allow her to even go out with a 19 year old period. they allowed this and you broke every rule, some day when you have a family and children and you were asked this same question your outlook on it will be alot different trust me!!

 

[Palek]

<< crap like that really makes me hate Christians sometimes. bunch of conservative flamers should goto hell. >>



Dear Bobby,
I know that ceLLriOT has asked for everyone's opinion, but do you think that a post like that will be of any value to him? Okay, we get it, you hate Christians sometimes. Good for you... I guess.

Try to be a little more thoughtful when posting in such a sensitive thread as this. A person here is hurting and asking for help and advice. You were most unhelpful.

 

[MrDudeMan]

i cant believe some of you people...saying christianity is a cult and that we are flamers! i am so infuriated by that comment i cant even think straight.

i am 16 years old, and just because i am 16 does not mean i know jack crap about life. granted, all of you people twice my age obviously know a lot more, and i respect that as i also respect everyone elses say in this arguement. but how can you come on here condemning christians and kids less than 20 years of age, which you supposedly believe are part of a cult.

do you ever see satanic groups reaching out to help others in need? no, you dont. who does it? thats right, the church. have you ever talked to someone who is truly a chrisitian? not someone who is doing it for the title, i mean. chances are this person probably has a great set of morals and values to live by, and that is nothing to make fun of or be hatred toward.

all of you say "dont you remember what its like to be 16." well i am 16, and in case you have forgotten, teenagers dont rebel for no reason. if i find a rule unreasonable, i confront both of my parents, present my case, and wait for a reply. simply agreeing with their restrictions is not helping you any. you either need to ask her parents to sit down and have a talk with you while she is present, or you need to move on, as a 19 year old dating a 16 year old...no offense...most times turns out as trouble anyways. i have seen many of my friends at school (girls) get 1) pregnant by someone significantly older (and at 16 and 19, 3 years is 19% of her life, which is huge) 2) or they go insane and ditch everyone else for the guy, which totally separates them from the years which to me are obviously a vital point in time.

this is the period of time where i am not free, but i am not restricted and i have to learn some things on my own. but, disrespecting a parents decision is not something you need to learn on your own. my girlfriend right now...we have been dating for over a year, but it hasnt always been that way. first we were friends, then once i saw it had the potential to be more, i became better friends with her parents, earned their trust, and proceeded to do as i thought necessary.

after what i said above...i relate this to your problem. you failed to earn their trust at first, you big time failed in following the rules, and you are failing right now, as it seems, at winning her back. time away to breathe never helps a situation. once i was extremely angry with my parents and i just shunned myself from them for a week. of course, its not the same, but that time away didnt do squat to help my situation at all, hence i learned from it.

i see you are happy with your decision, though, and i am glad you can be happy with that. just dont let her get away because you have broken rules like someone else said.


and yes, i realize this is a singled sided point of view, dont start flaming me for it.

 

Gosh! It must be the devil at work, for I typed up a whole lot and clicked send yesterday, but much to my dismay, it was not successfully sent! *Stomping on the devil real hard!* :|

"I have 2 girls and untill you have been a parent you will never understand where they are coming from. "

Aaaaah! I hate it when people say stuff like this.

I think that is so far from being true, for if it were true, then there wouldn't be people with kids having a different opinion from you. All I'll ever concede to on this matter is that one without kids cannot "feel" exactly the way the parent is feeling; however, they can understand!!!!!!!!

Hehehehehe! Okay . . . <singing:> It's Romeo and Juliet; Romeo and Juliet. Oh my God! We have another case of Romeo and Juliet the way Cell Riot narrates his story.

Cell Riot, with all utmost respect due you, I think you have some growing up to do. When you grow up more, then you can come convincing us all that this is the one . . . the predestined one. I don't think so now, honey. Does your nick by any chance hint your nature?

Listen: I have no kids and am not married at the moment. But hell if I had any kids or at anytime in the future where I have any kids, I would be sure to give any freakin' 19 years old dude who comes for my daughter and says he has some teaching to do and can't live without her some crap.

Hon', you had your own chance to grow up, so give her her chance. You need not deprive her of her own chance--even if she makes foolish decisions. You claim to be so sure of yourself and speak all about "you". You seem to have no regards for this lady. Hon', give her some breathing space. Allow her at least two more years to be as sure as you claim to be of yourself.

You say how you feel it is wrong for you not to be there for her growth . . . excuse me hon', you're trying to come on this girl as a bf, not a friend. What law of nature says a 16 years old must have a bf, and for that matter someone who claims he'll direct her the right path? Give the girl a chance to grow and concentrate on finishing high school first.

Hon', you're not her father and not her mother. You speak as though you're some sugar daddy. I'm afraid if you carry on the way you are, she will some day be attracted to a guy much older than she . . . perhaps up to 20 years 'cuz then he can direct her and play the father figure as you seem to be implying. What stops her from dating a 26 years old guy or a 30 years old guy, after all he would seem more secure and established? So, why a 19 years old who's 3 years older than she? Hon', it doesn't work that way. Give her some breathing space and let her too decide if she is on the same wavelength with you.

Have not you read of girls who grow to be women at college level? This also applies to guys . . . they are so sure of themselves and so in love at high school level. And then they hit college and start to rethink it all. And finally, they let go of their first.

Hon', you too need some moment of contemplation, for it is not just she who needs it. When you talk, you talk like a kid too, which shows you have just as much growing to do. Why not think about "God" and your education? Why not just be a friend to her? Why must you be a bf instead? Who says friends never have a future together? Is there any law of nature that states that? Must you be a bf to her in order to be there for her?

You claim to believe in the Bible. Well, does not Paul list virtues that accompany a Christian? Is not patience one of those virtues? Why not be patient? Does not Paul say love is patience? Do you think she's gonna fly away and be gone in 2 years? If she disappears from your view in two years, then maybe it wasn't meant to be. Besides, in those 2/3 years, she'll be at your level where she can make a similar claim as you proclaiming her destiny with you or without you.

Oh yeah, you also speak of you two being virgins. You know everyone is a virgin until one day. . . . So, you can proclaim you are a virgin all you want, but if you keep encouraging that move you've been, then I'm afraid you will be boasting of something else tomorrow. So, keep that thingy in your pants and let those feelings stay just in your head!

As for her parents, granted, they are extremely strict, but hell would I prefer a parent who is way stricter than one who is so loose. You are trying to compete with them by acting and speaking as though you're her father or her husband. You're perhaps unconsciously encouraging her to rebel and creating two matsers for her . . . that in itself would be confusing on who she should listen to. Chill, man and let her parents play that roll. Don't be a control freak as you sound. Stop considering just yourself . . . you sound so self-centred . . . memememememememememememememememememeemememe! Gosh! Give it some space, for I bet ya you would have matured by then.

Okay, my piece of the pie is taken. Thanks for reading!

 

[ceLLriOT]

UPDATE 2/24
Hey everyone, thanks for all the advice again, and I have read through this thread a time or two. I dont exactly agree with a lot of the things said, but there were a few choice tidbits I took to heart and am using for strength, along with much of the Bible, which I have been studying thouroughly lately for direction. Well, lets see, what has happened lately, well... I have been giving her space. I havent had contact with her in weeks. It is the most painful thing I've ever had to do in my life. I now know how much I love her more than ever. Nothing in my life has ever left me so empty, yet so full of life. This change has encouraged me to fill my life up with God and other things in her place. Before all of this happened, she was my life. Now all of that has changed. I still am planning on speaking to her parents before I go back to school next quarter, sometime. I feel I need to let them know where I'm at. And as for the relationship, I really dont know what will happen with that, I guess it's up to her and God. Thanks again, I will probably update again when something more significant happens.

ceLLriOT