Playbook reviews are out!

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Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
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Every reviewer I trust says to not buy it yet.

I'm thinking HP has the best shot at a good functional tablet at this point. If they push out a piece of crap and fix it later remains to be seen. I'd love to see someone put out a device without promises to fix it later.
 
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ChAoTiCpInOy

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
6,442
1
81
Every reviewer I trust says to not buy it yet.

I'm thinking HP has the best shot at a good functional tablet at this point. If they push out a piece of crap and fix it later remains to be seen. I'd love to see someone put out a device without promises to fix it later.

Over promise and under deliver? Or under promise and over deliver?
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
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Promised? But how do you know you're actually going to get that in 60 days? Wouldn't you want to buy a device that is ready out of the box?

Why would people buy Windows Phone not knowing if it would ever get copy & paste or multitasking?
Why would people buy Android not knowing if it would get Exchange support?
Why would people buy an iPhone not knowing if it would get [insert one of the many features iPhone 1 lacked]?

Its a V1 product. You're right - it probably won't fly off the shelves in April, but who expcets it to? By the time summer rolls around, these updates should be finished, and that's when it will start shipping through carriers anyway.

Pretty much universally, the feedback on the PlayBook isn't "this product is bad, don't buy it"...its "There's a lot of potential, you should wait and see". Come summertime, when the 4G models are released, its certainly possible many of these issues are fixed and the PlayBook becomes a really kickass tablet. We'll find out. RIM isn't bankrupt - they aren't going to go under if sales start slow. Its really not a big deal if this thing starts selling well in, say, July. The upcoming competitors (HTC/HP) have been delayed. The Xoom isn't exactly a super-solid finished product itself. Apple isn't releasing a new iPad between now and then.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
RIM really screwed this up. From what I understand, if I am a business guy who is attached to my Blackberry because of great email/exchange support, what does the Playbook offer me?

A whole lot of nothing.

Actually, that's the one case where the PlayBook still shines. You can tether the PlayBook to a Blackberry and get all of your email and whatnot, its called the Blackberry Bridge, and its actually pretty cool. Its the non-BB users that are kinda left out right now.

Also...ahh, lets not be stupid about the stock thing, fellas. It dropped 0.96% today. For comparison, competitors in the mobile space didn't exactly have stellar days themselves. Google is down 8.26%, Apple is down 1.49%, and Microsoft is down 0.2% today. The market did not show investors are running away screaming due to the PlayBook reviews.
 
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poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
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Actually, that's the one case where the PlayBook still shines. You can tether the PlayBook to a Blackberry and get all of your email and whatnot, its called the Blackberry Bridge, and its actually pretty cool. Its the non-BB users that are kinda left out right now.

You are right, I am wrong:

BlackBerry Bridge is supposed to appeal to the corporate network administrators who are R.I.M.’s bread and butter, because they can deploy PlayBooks without having to worry about security breaches. Everything they’ve worked so hard to secure on your BlackBerry — e-mail, calendar and so on — stays there. It only appears to be on the PlayBook. But — are you sitting down? — at the moment, BlackBerry Bridge is the only way to do e-mail, calendar, address book and BlackBerry Messenger on the PlayBook.

I was confused.

With that cleared up now I think the Playbook has a chance to be a big success. RIM has survived in three markets:

1. Corporate users who are told by their IT staff that the only phones they can have are BBs.
2. People who want TWO free phones thrown in on a new cell contract (and would never *GASP* pay out of pocket for a phone).
3. Old people/technophobes who are intimidated by other smartphones.

Of those three groups, the only ones that would ever consider buying something like a Playbook is the first group- the kind that has expense accounts just for that reason! The rest of the general public wasn't going to give the Playbook1 a chance because RIM lacks the apps that people want/need.

Man, every time you think RIM is down and done they find some new way to milk that corporate market. If RIM ever merged with Apple, and all that good design sense mixed with a business-first attitude, the days of Microsoft mattering would quickly be over....
 

finbarqs

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2005
3,617
2
81
i guess as long as people/developers are working hard at pushing out apps, and that it gets the email client soon... i just might jump.... but then again... touchpad....
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Also...ahh, lets not be stupid about the stock thing, fellas. It dropped 0.96% today. For comparison, competitors in the mobile space didn't exactly have stellar days themselves. Google is down 8.26%, Apple is down 1.49%, and Microsoft is down 0.2% today. The market did not show investors are running away screaming due to the PlayBook reviews.

Are you smoking crack?


http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

That's a 16% drop in the stock price, and still dropping.

It seems the minute the NDA review units hit the reviewer's hands, (a bit over 2 weeks ago) the stock price started dropping.

Google took a hit because it's expenses affected it's EPS, they had a ton of expenses this quarter and missed analysts expectations, and the new CEO is of concern to investors, it drug down the whole sector.
 
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DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Are you smoking crack?


http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

That's a 16% drop in the stock price, and still dropping.

It seems the minute the NDA review units hit the reviewer's hands, (a bit over 2 weeks ago) the stock price started dropping.

Google took a hit because it's expenses affected it's EPS, they had a ton of expenses this quarter and missed analysts expectations, and the new CEO is of concern to investors, it drug down the whole sector.

They announced year end numbers a bit over two weeks ago. It has nothing to do with the units being shipped out, unless you got one and know when they hit. I also love how you run to defend Googles stock regardless, because it's your preference, but you're not biased, you're just a 'concerned investor'. Gimme a beak...

Let's look at the two week period, for example:

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...pe=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on

16%? "Are you on crack?!", or are you just unable to do basic math? :D If you could you'd see in the last two weeks it's lost 5%... Why pick the last two weeks? Because that would show any negative impact if the PB, and in reality so far only last FRIDAY would truly show that, and that would be even less.

Try and keep your trash in the RIM Death watch thread. You made it specially for this so it seems a waste to double post it all in here, too. :D
 
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Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
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deeko opened the door, saying investors aren't running away from the stock, I've bit my tongue a lot reading this thread, but saying investors are happy with what's going on with RIM is pushing the BS just a bit too much.

I posted historical prices, a graph, and if you do the math, dropping from $63/share to $53.40 is a 16% haircut, and there's likely more to come. If RIM deserves to get hit this hard is more difficult to quantify. I think they're looking at losing their co-CEO's in the near future, and replacing them with someone that's more adept at explaining RIM's long term plans and philosophy to reviewers and investors.

RIM was $70 a share in Feb, now $53 for a 23% drop

DBZ, I have no desire to argue with you over anything, I'm not defending Google, I'm not a fan of the corporation or a current investor, I think they're in for some interesting times with the new CEO. I do use Android daily and appreciate it as an OS, hell, I think QNX is pretty slick too, watching the demos, and for the first time in a long time, I could see owning a BB when the OS gets straightened out a bit, and it will be ironed out nicely if RIM keeps polishing it as I strongly suspect they will.

I also think I understand RIM's strategy finally, they want to follow the recipe they used to become a dominant force in smartphones, start with enterprise level devices, where they have a ton of support, then modify the device to make it more of a consumer friendly device. It's the opposite of what the other 2 major OS's are doing, so the reviewers and bloggers are freaking out, they can't understand why RIM would go after the corporations rather than consumers.

Please lighten up.
 
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runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
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Well, I don't think how RIM's stock situation would affect the PlayBook's performance, though it may be true the other way around.

And we were discussing PlayBook and not RIM, right? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Well, I don't think how RIM's stock situation would affect the PlayBook's performance, though it may be true the other way around.

And we were discussing PlayBook and not RIM, right? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...

Agreed, I just chimed in because of deeko's post about investors not running away from RIM.

Anyway, here's the JOTD :

1529.jpg
 
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runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
Well, at least now there is a solution. Tell me again why the PlayBook received such negative reviews? Now that I think about it, the iPad when it first came out was faced with the same situation. Save for that it actually had access to the iPhone's thousands of apps and it had some apps for itself, but the interface, RAM limitation and lack of multitasking was equally if not much worse than how the PlayBook is in 2011.

Or is it simply because it's 2011 and the iPad has already happened, and now the bar is much higher than it is 10 months ago?
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
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Well, at least now there is a solution. Tell me again why the PlayBook received such negative reviews? Now that I think about it, the iPad when it first came out was faced with the same situation. Save for that it actually had access to the iPhone's thousands of apps and it had some apps for itself, but the interface, RAM limitation and lack of multitasking was equally if not much worse than how the PlayBook is in 2011.

Or is it simply because it's 2011 and the iPad has already happened, and now the bar is much higher than it is 10 months ago?

Frankly - it hasn't received terrible reviews. People that desparately want to dislike RIM for one reason or another are skewing the reviews that way, but that's really not what they're saying. All of the reviews are saying there's things to like, there's a lot of potential, its just lacking some stuff, so you might be better off waiting till summer. Ya know...a similar line to just about every V1 product launch.

Are you smoking crack?


http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

That's a 16% drop in the stock price, and still dropping.

It seems the minute the NDA review units hit the reviewer's hands, (a bit over 2 weeks ago) the stock price started dropping.

Google took a hit because it's expenses affected it's EPS, they had a ton of expenses this quarter and missed analysts expectations, and the new CEO is of concern to investors, it drug down the whole sector.

Ok....let me explain this to you. I thought that being the savvy investor you are, I wouldn't need to, but here goes.

You already mentioned that thing the reviewers signed...the NDA. Do you know what that is? It means they can't disclose info. Ok? We got that part? We understand what a Non Disclosure Agreement is? Alright, good.

Now, you say "the second the NDA units hit reviewers hands, the stock started dropping". Did you....think.....before saying that? A few dozen..oh, maybe a hundred or so...reviewers having a device that they are legally bound to not talk about is not going to impact the stock price. Do you think Topolsky was feeding negative info through the back door to wall street traders, and they all kept it reaaaaalllly quiet, but still managed to negatively impact the stock? Do you really think that?

If you do, you're wrong. The NDA was released Wednesday night, that's when investors got their first taste of the PlayBook. And since that time - the stock has gone down 0.96%. The previous two weeks are obviously impactful to RIM in general, but to say the negative PlayBook reviews caused a 16% drop is not just disingenuous, its outright lying.

Glad we got that cleared up. And one more thing, for the record, I didn't "open the door" to the stock talk, someone else did, and I corrected them. I do find it amusing that you are so incredibly desperate to take threads off topic that just because the "door was opened" you couldn't help yourself but to barge through it full force.

Anyway, as runawayprisoner and dbz have both noted, this thread is about the PlayBook, not RIM's stock performance, so this will be my last post on the subject here. As has already been suggested, take further talk of it elsewhere.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Actually, using a 4G version with the free tethering to a BB phone is a compelling reason to buy one.

Especially is you have it rigged up as a desktop.

I wonder if a developer will come up with a way to share the 4G from the playbook, like a virtual router?

Edit, sorry, I got that wrong, there are no 4G BB phones yet, but the idea is still pretty good, free 4G tethering to a desktop equivalent eventually.

I sincerely apologize, didn't mean to derail the thread, and the offer is open to you too deeko, just add me to your ignore list :D

As far as the NDA and the stock price dropping, there are a lot of behind the scenes communication going on. Can I prove it? No, but when there are millions of dollars at stake, a nod and a wink say a lot.
 
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runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
Frankly - it hasn't received terrible reviews. People that desparately want to dislike RIM for one reason or another are skewing the reviews that way, but that's really not what they're saying. All of the reviews are saying there's things to like, there's a lot of potential, its just lacking some stuff, so you might be better off waiting till summer. Ya know...a similar line to just about every V1 product launch.

Well, the first iPad didn't receive that conclusion when it came out last year. For example, Anand said this in his review:

Anand said:
It's a great information consumption device today, and with the right developers working on it (many of which are) it could be a great productivity device tomorrow.

From here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3640/apples-ipad-the-anandtech-review/22

And then when you compare it to this:

Anand said:
There's a lot to like about the PlayBook, but unless you're an existing BlackBerry user you're better off waiting to see where RIM takes this thing.

From here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4266/blackberry-playbook-review/21

It sounds worse, even if it's not supposed to be a negative or terrible statement.

I am looking at it from a different perspective, and that is... only those who haven't read what was written about the iPad a year ago, or those who can't bring themselves to fault RIM can read these reviews and brand them as "not terrible".

I am not going into how horrible the PlayBook is or what it's missing. I'm merely wondering why a device with a good multitasking system, full desktop-grade browser with Flash support, unobtrusive notification system, smooth interface, 1080p playback, and even HDMI out does not measure up to something from a year ago... from the perspective of the same reviewer?
 
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Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
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I am not going into how horrible the PlayBook is or what it's missing. I'm merely wondering why a device with a good multitasking system, full desktop-grade browser with Flash support, unobtrusive notification system, smooth interface, 1080p playback, and even HDMI out does not measure up to something from a year ago... from the perspective of the same reviewer?

Anand is pretty objective, I trust his reviews, he says to wait.

While I definitely don't carry my iPad everywhere, if it were more functional I could see carrying the PlayBook with me more often than any other tablet.

It's not very functional in it's current form

The PlayBook's styling is modest, even for BlackBerry standards.

It looks like a $99 LCD picture frame.

You basically need a pointy finger nail (which I typically don't have) to press it easily and as a result the power button was pretty much useless to me.
The volume up/down buttons work as expected, although the volume level itself doesn't seem to be very linear.

The volume level isn't linear, like an on off switch? That's not good.

The battery is of course not removable and there's no USB port or SD card reader.

I see that criticism about Apple products all the time.

There's no support for passcode locking and no physical unlock switch

No flipping passcode lock?

Swipe up from the lower left corner and you'll bring up the PlayBook's virtual keyboard, in any app. This is a particularly puzzling gesture because you can bring up the keyboard even in apps that can't use a keyboard. And no, the keyboard shortcuts from the BlackBerry OS don't work on the PlayBook.

There's no support for folders

It's all clearly very webOS inspired, although I will say that webOS still feels a bit better in this regard.



Also the only notification color supported today is red, which works well for "hey you're running out of battery life!" but not so well for "hey you just got 3 emails".

. Scroll down too quickly and you'll get an empty screen that takes a moment to catch up with your scrolling. It's not uncommon to see this on iOS, it happens less with the iPad 2 and it seems to happen more with the PlayBook.

Browser benched at 1/2 the speed of the iPad 2 in some page loads

Sites that depend entirely on Flash work on the PlayBook, although controlling pure Flash sites can be a problem. Case in point: Pandora. The web version of Pandora is fully functional on the PlayBook, albeit slow to load. The trouble comes in when you try to use Pandora's integrated scroll bar or actually switch stations. Pandora is optimized for a mouse driven experience, not a touch UI, resulting in a lot of frustrating tapping and really slow scrolling. It's workable, but definitely not desirable.

The problem with embedded Flash video is the same as the Pandora issue: control. You can't really hover to expose controls with a touchscreen so what you end up doing is a lot of quick tapping to try and bring up controls, change the setting you want and get back to playing the video. It's frustrating and doesn't work all of the time.

But Flash is awesome, and makes all the difference in the world in tablets...

RIM tells me that its intentions are to have industry leading browser performance and that there's a lot of room for optimization left on the PlayBook. I believe that there's a lot more that can be done here, the question is how quickly will RIM get around to doing it.

The browser isn't great yet.

While it's possible to type on the PlayBook, it's not quite as easy as on a larger tablet for obvious reasons. And thanks to the combination of overall size and gesture bezel, I found myself hitting the bottom bezel instead of space quite frequently.

RIM doesn't support any real time autocorrection.

No real time auto correction?

The bottom line is that today the PlayBook can't store contacts, it can't organize your day and you can't use it to check emails using anything other than your web browser. RIM's explanation? Most users who buy tablets don't buy it for push email, most are on WiFi, and if you're not getting push email then a web client is probably ok. I don't agree with this assessment, and clearly RIM doesn't completely agree with it either, so we'll eventually get all of these things for the PlayBook later this summer alongside the release of the WiMAX PlayBook.

BlackBerry Bridge apps are all choppier than regular PlayBook apps, something you notice even when you scroll over them in the task switcher.

But the Bridge is magic...

Unfortunately any reminders set in your calendar don't currently propagate to the PlayBook, they'll appear on your BlackBerry but not on the tablet. RIM clearly has work to do here.

Well, that's a problem, isn't it?

For starters it means that you can introduce a PlayBook into your workflow without incurring any additional data costs. I asked RIM whether carriers would be ok with this arrangement, however the best answer I could get is that they couldn't do anything to stop it - the packets all look the same. Granted we've seen carriers crack down on unauthorized tethering so we'll see how this one plays out, but RIM is adamant about free tethering to your BlackBerry (with BIS/BES enabled) being a selling feature of the PlayBook. And it works very well today.

The carriers are just going to jack up data plan prices on all BB's if this is the case. We all know how much $ the carriers make on data plans and how they cap/throttle already. I suspect Verizon will never agree to this.

If I had to carry a BlackBerry, the PlayBook might make for an interesting accessory that I could use for both work and personal use.
When it works, WiFi sharing is great. I only have two complaints: speed over WiFi is atrocious and I can't always get WiFi sharing to work, although the latest update seemed to reduce the number of issues I've had.

"If I had to carry a BlackBerry", ouch...

Pretty much no smartphone or tablet we've tested is particularly speedy over WiFi. Even the Motorola Xoom, at the top of our performance chart, manages a meager 36Mbps. Part of this has to do with the fact that all of these devices are power rather than performance optimized and part of it has to do with NAND performance limitations. The PlayBook is even more disappointing in this regard

Slow WiFi?

The PlayBook app experience, at least on day one, unfortunately isn't anywhere near that of what you get on Honeycomb. So if you felt that Honeycomb was under-supported by 3rd party apps at launch, the PlayBook will disappoint you.

Less apps than the XOOM? The standard BB apps won't work either.

Browsing for apps by category is a bit more complicated than I'd like. Each category seen in the screen below has a handful of subcategories



App World is one of the few first party apps that just isn't very smooth. Animations are choppy and the whole thing just begs to be optimized. I can't stress enough how having a mixture of 60 fps and sub-30 fps frame rates on the same tablet somehow stands out more than if the device were just consistently below 30 fps.

That doesn't sound good.

At this point I wouldn't assume that the PlayBook is just going to give you a great Android app experience as well as a great PlayBook experience. I think that's simply too far fetched.

Android apps are going to be a problem, so says Anand...

Where the PlayBook's resolution falls flat is when you've got a lot on the screen. Here's what happens when you have a keyboard open in landscape mode on a web page
In Google docs that leaves you with a single line of text above your keyboard. The same happens elsewhere, although it's less of a problem in Documents To Go. I've complained in the past about the input problem on tablets, and I do believe it's actually worse on the PlayBook thanks to its cramped screen size. If anything, the PlayBook is even more optimized for content consumption than production of any sort.

But, but, it's a professional tablet, made for productivity...

Although the PlayBook has GPS and WiFi support, the current build of the PlayBook software doesn't support location services. As a result the maps app is only useful for looking up directions, but not telling you how to get to your destination from your current location.

No navigation, even though it has GPS?

At 7.66 hours of battery life the PlayBook is noticeably worse than the competition, and that's without checking emails in the background as well. Over 7 hours is still enough to get you through the majority of the work day, but heavy users should plan on charging the PlayBook at least once a day.

But RIM promised the same battery life as the iPad...

I also threw in battery life when running a 1080p main profile clip, something the other tablets can't do. There is definitely a negative impact on battery life for more complex videos, so keep that in mind if you plan on taking advantage of the OMAP 4430's flexible video playback support.
I have to say that based on the aggressive update schedule and key missing features (dedicated calendar & email clients), unless you're an existing BlackBerry user you're better off waiting to buy a PlayBook until we see some bigger updates for the platform.
I'd say about the only type of user who should consider a PlayBook on day one is someone who already has a BlackBerry

There's a lot to like about the PlayBook, but unless you're an existing BlackBerry user you're better off waiting to see where RIM takes this thing.

I dunno what reviews everyone else is reading, but honestly 6/10 is pretty generous with the current state of the PlayBook.

I do think the PlayBook has massive potential, but with CEO's that flip out over minor criticism or questions, I have grave concerns about what they decide to prioritize.
 
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DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
*Yawn* All you're proving is you can quote negative viewpoints or at worst incorrect ones. I could post thousands of positive soundbites, but who wants to play your childish games?

I'd respect you more if you just posted, 'I hate RIM and will never buy or like anything they make.', but you don't have the stones.