Pelosi crazy.

[Craig234]

So in your mind, someone who does absolutely nothing is more deserving than someone who pays for that other person to be able to do nothing?

No, that's a misstatement of what I said and what Pelosi is saying that just illustrates how you don't understand the 'other side's' position.

Subsidising nearly two years of a person's life so that they can do absolutely nothing isn't my idea of charity. My idea of charity is that person going to a damn soup kitchen.[/QUOTE]

Again a misrepresentation of the situation and not any much idea of the economics involved in dealing with keeping people employed with unemployment periods.

Your positions would cause a lot of economic loss for no good reason, but you don't seem to have any idea about that. You can't see further than the small fraction of your taxes.

You're like a guy hanging on to a $20 bill screaming "MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE" drowning out anyone trying to discuss the issue and even how helping the economy helps you.

But hey, offering simplistic stories about why you should get to keep that $20, and not discussing the issue honestly, is great for getting your vote - hence, Republicans.

Republicans have been on the wrong side constantly, but because they are always happy to use people with simplistic stories to get their votes, they are not held accountable.

For example, back when Clinton pushed a tax increase on the top 2% in 1993 (with a Democratic Congress who helped pass it) as part of his deficit reduction plan, as those 2% had been getting far more than 'their share' from the previous 12 Republican years of huge deficits, every Republican figure I know predicted horrible problems it would cause the economy - major unemployment, lost growth, and so on. It was a big test of which side was right after years of talk and easily verifiable.

Yet when the Democrats were proven right - the economy predictions were wrong and the deficit was reduced - I saw zero accountability. That's the right.

Tell you what you want to hear, to get your vote, even though it's not right. Pelosi is right here, and attacked by the people who fall for the pandering.

 

[Amused]

It is simply amazing how the left twists reality.

There is no way paying people for being unproductive OR even more assinine; paying people to pay people to be unproductive in ANY way helps the economy. Productivity remains down, as do tax revenues and debt increases. Meanwhile, those who are productive are punished while those who are unproductive are rewarded.

Helping people be unproductive is NOT helping the economy.

But in the leftist world, left is right, black is white and up is down.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

This isn't a left or a right thing, it's a supply and demand thing. The fact is Pelosi is right in what's she's quoted as saying and everyone railing on her is just showing their partisanship and ignorance of economics.

 

[Amused]

This isn't a left or a right thing, it's a supply and demand thing. The fact is Pelosi is right in what's she's quoted as saying and everyone railing on her is just showing their partisanship and ignorance of economics.

It's a zero sum game. It's paying for something that is producing NOTHING. You're paying people to pay people to do nothing. It's counter productive and results in a net loss. It is NOT something to brag about and claim is helping the economy. It is doing the exact opposite.

 

[Zebo]

As if accumulating over $55 trillion of public and private debt that can't be serviced without borrowing more and more, aka pyramid scheme, isn't enough. It seems the whole private sector is now dependent on government borrowing and spending to function, to give people jobs even. What's that called? How long can it last? China's whole GDP is 4 trillion why loan us 2 of it? Why not spend it on their people?

 

[*kjm]

It is simply amazing how the left twists reality.

There is no way paying people for being unproductive OR even more assinine; paying people to pay people to be unproductive in ANY way helps the economy. Productivity remains down, as do tax revenues and debt increases. Meanwhile, those who are productive are punished while those who are unproductive are rewarded.

Helping people be unproductive is NOT helping the economy.

But in the leftist world, left is right, black is white and up is down.

You sir are so right! How can a system my brother put into for 30yrs screw him but some mother that has put nothing into the system get all the benefits because it’s for the children? Sick if you ask me.


I'm done..... like I said I love my brother and the system has taken him for a ride..... Who can fix it .... not puplic heathcare for sure.

 

[Zebo]

This isn't a left or a right thing, it's a supply and demand thing. The fact is Pelosi is right in what's she's quoted as saying and everyone railing on her is just showing their partisanship and ignorance of economics.

Pelosi is a fool.

At some point, other nations will decide to push back and not accept our paper in exchange for their production, what you call a 'consumer economy' Even sooner once they realize we reward failure from Big banks to deadbeats and that we like to cut off credit from our productive private sector. When that day happens, the freedom to "consume" as you know it will be toast.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

It's a zero sum game. It's paying for something that is producing NOTHING. You're paying people to pay people to do nothing. It's counter productive and results in a net loss. It is NOT something to brag about and claim is helping the economy. It is doing the exact opposite.

Take a deep breath, look past the fact that people who aren't working are getting paid (OMG TEH RAGE!!!) and think about where money comes from that goes into business' bottom lines and employees' paychecks. Producers are completely reliant on customers who are financially capable of transacting. Things that help the latter, help the former.

 

[Amused]

Take a deep breath, look past the fact that people who aren't working are getting paid (OMG TEH RAGE!!!) and think about where money comes from that goes into business' bottom lines and employees' paychecks. Producers are completely reliant on customers who are financially capable of transacting. Things that help the latter, help the former.

But they don't, because you're robbing from one then paying it back to them. Like I said, it's zero sum. It's non productive, and the jobs that support it are a negative sum, NOT positive.

If I take half your profits, then come into your store and buy a pack of condoms, have I helped or hurt your bottom line???

People producing things and services of value and being paid for it are a positive, people being paid for producing nothing are a net negative... no matter how you spin it.

 

[waggy]

Take a deep breath, look past the fact that people who aren't working are getting paid (OMG TEH RAGE!!!) and think about where money comes from that goes into business' bottom lines and employees' paychecks. Producers are completely reliant on customers who are financially capable of transacting. Things that help the latter, help the former.

right. but you are still taking away from some to pay for that positive.

If you want to add in the fact it does do something for the "greater good" then yes its a net positive.

but it is in no way how pelosi spun it.

 

[Zebo]

But they don't, because you're robbing from one then paying it back to them. Like I said, it's zero sum. It's non productive, and the jobs that support it are a negative sum, NOT positive.

If I take half your profits, then come into your store and buy a pack of condoms, have I helped or hurt your bottom line???

People producing things and services of value and being paid for it are a positive, people being paid for producing nothing are a net negative... no matter how you spin it.

They don't see it as robbing because you're charging it a 2 trillion a year clip. Out of sight out of mind.

 

[Throckmorton]

But they don't, because you're robbing from one then paying it back to them. Like I said, it's zero sum. It's non productive, and the jobs that support it are a negative sum, NOT positive.

If I take half your profits, then come into your store and buy a pack of condoms, have I helped or hurt your bottom line???

People producing things and services of value and being paid for it are a positive, people being paid for producing nothing are a net negative... no matter how you spin it.

This is what boggles my mind. You know perfectly well it's deficit spending, therefore borrowing from the future. And you know perfectly well that we need the consumption/demand now because we're in a recession. So why can't you put the two together?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

This is what boggles my mind. You know perfectly well it's deficit spending, therefore borrowing from the future. And you know perfectly well that we need the consumption/demand now because we're in a recession. So why can't you put the two together?

Because people aren't working and are still getting paid. OMG TEH RAGE!!!

I think some of these folks are actually jealous of how "good" the unemployed have it. Well, they are always welcome to join them.

 

[Zebo]

This is what boggles my mind. You know perfectly well it's deficit spending, therefore borrowing from the future. And you know perfectly well that we need the consumption/demand now because we're in a recession. So why can't you put the two together?

Neo-Keynesian FAIL You don't think people will just lend forever do you? The wall will be hit like all Ponzi Schemes.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/06/29/273606/ecb-fixed-term-deposit-fail/

 

[Amused]

Because people aren't working and are still getting paid. OMG TEH RAGE!!!

I think some of these folks are actually jealous of how "good" the unemployed have it. Well, they are always welcome to join them.

Why not use the money to create PRODUCTIVE jobs??? Incentives for new businesses would be a more productive use of the money.

Paying people for producing nothing is a pointless waste of money. Paying people to pay them is just more shit of the pile.

 

[boomerang]

Fuck all this arguing about Pelosi.

Contribute to John Dennis' campaign and help put that bitch out on her ass.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

This is what boggles my mind. You know perfectly well it's deficit spending, therefore borrowing from the future. And you know perfectly well that we need the consumption/demand now because we're in a recession. So why can't you put the two together?

So you take from businesses who then up prices and/or lay off staff to compensate. You keep taking and taking however then you wonder why unemployment is so high and prices increase on goods and services as the worthless nickle and dimes pay checks offered up by government to unemployed people ends up catching up to its own tail and consuming itself.

This is what Pelosi and the gang are doing to our economy and future.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Why not use the money to create PRODUCTIVE jobs??? Incentives for new businesses would be a more productive use of the money.

Paying people for producing nothing is a pointless waste of money. Paying people to pay them is just more shit of the pile.

How the hell do you think you create productive jobs? You drive up demand. You can't just dump money and resources into production and expect the economy to improve without the demand to support the production increases.

 

[Zebo]

We are going to regret hiring a guy in Alabama to dig dirt and fill holes in Michigan, gave it to people who committed fraud or don't do anything when house of cards collapses. We are actually training people to be losers and crooks with no capability to compete and service that money we owe. Great Depression will seem short and a blip compared to what's coming.

 

[Zebo]

How the hell do you think you create productive jobs? You drive up demand. You can't just dump money and resources into production and expect the economy to improve without the demand to support the production increases.

Here is where I diverge w/ amused. Sensible ways. Things like minimum wage. Demanding same rights our workers get from those we trade with or we don't trade. Why is my new iphone built in China instead of Compton? Unions.

Notice these all have a work/productive element with driving demand?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Here is where I diverge w/ amused. Sensible ways. Things like minimum wage. Demanding same rights our workers get from those we trade with or we don't trade. Why is my new iphone built in China instead of Compton? Unions.

Notice these all have a work/productive element with driving demand?

That sounds like some liberal protectionism to me.

 

[Zebo]

That sounds like some liberal protectionism to me.

Shit. Larry Summers and Bill Clinton wrote the book on using slave labor. Was nice while banks were still lending....My house is full of China crap. Now all we got is debt and no jobs.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

That sounds like some liberal protectionism to me.

Ummmm.....Traditional Conservatives such as Pat Buchanan have always has been vehemently against free-trade agreements.

Pat and others like him ain't no liberals.

 

[bfdd]

Less income is a downside, among others.

Really bud? Less income than not working? That sounds like a fundamental problem right there. If you can have a higher income NOT WORKING than ACTUALLY WORKING there is a very big problem.

Btw I am right you do not learn if you cannot suffer from your mistakes. That's life man, that's it. You fail then you learn not to fail again, if we allow these people to keep failing over and over and over without them every having to see what the bottom looks like they'll never learn try to climb back up.

 

[bfdd]

But they don't, because you're robbing from one then paying it back to them. Like I said, it's zero sum. It's non productive, and the jobs that support it are a negative sum, NOT positive.

If I take half your profits, then come into your store and buy a pack of condoms, have I helped or hurt your bottom line???

People producing things and services of value and being paid for it are a positive, people being paid for producing nothing are a net negative... no matter how you spin it.

Because of taxes it is not a zero sum, it's a negative. Have to remember that money is being taxed every time it goes around.