Pelosi crazy.

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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
You sound like the KKK talking about how blacks aren't human - the idiocy making the reader realize they should not give in to the temptation to find humor in your car wreck.

woah I never said hippies and hipsters in San Fransisco weren't human, I'm just saying fuck them. I can not like them and have no problem co-existing with them. It's called tolerance, maybe if the PC movement had some you wouldn't say such outlandish and crazy things.
 
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Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
No, you are an idiot is the problem here. His irrational sputtering hate of 'Pelosi and hippies', and the irrational sputtering hate KKK whites have of 'blacks', is a very similar thing.

You say they have nothing in common because you don't get that they do, not because they don't. One of us is right - they have nothing in common, or you're an idiot.

ihasafunny-millionaire_idiot_fail.jpg
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Keep in mind guys, Craig just recently described Pelosi as "outstanding", so its no surprise he rushed into this thread to defend her "honor".


I must admit though, he is almost looking like a bigger fool in this thread than the other thread about the SCOTUS case upholding the 2nd amendment. That thread might be the best Craig ownage ever
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
To be honest, she's almost half right. Giving money to consumers will enable them to consume products and services they would not have otherwise consumed. My grief is to whom she's giving the money.

Unemployment is already plenty long to find a new job. If they really want to stimulate the economy, they should provide tax rebates to people who actually had to pay taxes (i.e. not the poor who got everything back anyway). Give something back to the people who make it possible those on unemployment to be able to continue being on unemployment. Her end result (increased consumption) will happen either way, and people will appreciate it more.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
The problem is for economy to fuction is we must produce. Instead we are choking off production for a non producer and doing it on borrowed money. Why should an unemployed person get the product of a producing person? Why would a clerk load up groceries for a non producer? She won't for long once people figure out unemployment is the way to go. Don't work and still get your plumbing fixed, wait...why is that plumber still working? Oh he's not.

Sorry, when you can get one explanation of horrible logic, I might put some time in to explaining more, but now, the singing lessons for the pig are done.

But here's one tidbit for you: you have no clue about the needs of people and how to deal with an economy that values people at all, much less increases productivity. Your logic is the type that could cause all kinds of poverty and your logic would say, "that's good. We didn't waste any resources on those undeserving scum". Another tidbit: what you are describing doesn't exist, a system in which benefits generally exceed the reward for employment. If that were the case, you would have a point. It's not generally the case.

Funny how few people like you do what you say you think is better - go enjoy the great benefits you say there are. It's the same way the Wall Street Journal called the poor 'lucky duckies' for, IIRC, having low tax rates - but funny enough the WSJ writers did not do what they say is so nice. Rather, the ideological propaganda about how great the poor get it, is simply propaganda designed to justify immoral positions to not do anything for the poor and keep a small bit more for yourself, under the cover of how good they have it.

It makes moral cowards happy to spout such things and not have to do anything harder to actually have a good policy. No matter how much poverty gets worse, you make excuses.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
To be honest, she's almost half right. Giving money to consumers will enable them to consume products and services they would not have otherwise consumed. My grief is to whom she's giving the money.

Unemployment is already plenty long to find a new job. If they really want to stimulate the economy, they should provide tax rebates to people who actually had to pay taxes (i.e. not the poor who got everything back anyway). Give something back to the people who make it possible those on unemployment to be able to continue being on unemployment. Her end result (increased consumption) will happen either way, and people will appreciate it more.
Dogs don't learn to sit by rewarding them when they don't. So many people hate my analogies comparing humans to dogs, but we're not that much different when it comes to behavioral training. If you want someone to work, reward them for working, if they don't cut them off and let them suffer until they work.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
To be honest, she's almost half right. Giving money to consumers will enable them to consume products and services they would not have otherwise consumed. My grief is to whom she's giving the money.

Unemployment is already plenty long to find a new job. If they really want to stimulate the economy, they should provide tax rebates to people who actually had to pay taxes (i.e. not the poor who got everything back anyway). Give something back to the people who make it possible those on unemployment to be able to continue being on unemployment. Her end result (increased consumption) will happen either way, and people will appreciate it more.

You're almost half right, in recognizing part of the benefits of fueling consumer spending.

One thing you get wrong is leaving behind the economics and the issues with who needs the assistance, to inject your opinion of who is 'deserving' to push inefficient policies.

Giving money to someone who has really basic needs typically has more benefits than helping people who are doing 'ok' to get a nicer car than they would have.

That does nothing but satisfy your opinion of who 'deserves' it, that's not economics.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
You're almost half right, in recognizing part of the benefits of fueling consumer spending.

One thing you get wrong is leaving behind the economics and the issues with who needs the assistance, to inject your opinion of who is 'deserving' to push inefficient policies.

Giving money to someone who has really basic needs typically has more benefits than helping people who are doing 'ok' to get a nicer car than they would have.

That does nothing but satisfy your opinion of who 'deserves' it, that's not economics.

List of people who deserve assistance:
1. People who are helping themselves
2. Children
3. People who are completely incapable of helping themselves

That's it, no one else needs assistance.

edit- realized I put a who in there.
 
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nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
List of people who deserve assistance:
1. People who are helping themselves
2. Children
3. People who are completely incapable of helping themselves

That's it no one else who needs assistance.

:thumbsup:


Also, anyone getting housing/food assistance needs to pass monthly drug tests or else they are cut off.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
You're almost half right, in recognizing part of the benefits of fueling consumer spending.

One thing you get wrong is leaving behind the economics and the issues with who needs the assistance, to inject your opinion of who is 'deserving' to push inefficient policies.

Giving money to someone who has really basic needs typically has more benefits than helping people who are doing 'ok' to get a nicer car than they would have.

That does nothing but satisfy your opinion of who 'deserves' it, that's not economics.

So in your mind, someone who does absolutely nothing is more deserving than someone who pays for that other person to be able to do nothing?

Subsidising nearly two years of a person's life so that they can do absolutely nothing isn't my idea of charity. My idea of charity is that person going to a damn soup kitchen.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
The great thing about this line of argument that these benefits create jobs is that there's little real data to show to what degree they are, just subjective and vague arguments like how they can use the money to buy groceries, the grocer can now buy a truck to move produce. Nice and vague and not quantifiable at all.

Speaking of quantifiable, Pelosi said we'd see "400k jobs almost immediately" with the passage of that health care bill. Now those are metrics. And, yeah...where the fvck are those 400k jobs?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Sorry, when you can get one explanation of horrible logic, I might put some time in to explaining more, but now, the singing lessons for the pig are done.

But here's one tidbit for you: you have no clue about the needs of people and how to deal with an economy that values people at all, much less increases productivity. Your logic is the type that could cause all kinds of poverty and your logic would say, "that's good. We didn't waste any resources on those undeserving scum". Another tidbit: what you are describing doesn't exist, a system in which benefits generally exceed the reward for employment. If that were the case, you would have a point. It's not generally the case.

Funny how few people like you do what you say you think is better - go enjoy the great benefits you say there are. It's the same way the Wall Street Journal called the poor 'lucky duckies' for, IIRC, having low tax rates - but funny enough the WSJ writers did not do what they say is so nice. Rather, the ideological propaganda about how great the poor get it, is simply propaganda designed to justify immoral positions to not do anything for the poor and keep a small bit more for yourself, under the cover of how good they have it.

It makes moral cowards happy to spout such things and not have to do anything harder to actually have a good policy. No matter how much poverty gets worse, you make excuses.

When lenders stop lending for our deadbeats instead of funding the next software startup or gas station you will begin to appreciate how that money was misdirected just like many I'm sure are rethinking building Foxconn factories in China instead of in Los Angeles and wondering where all the jobs went. Until then you are a fool. Reward failure and get willing to bury yourself in debt doing it.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,163
136
Pelosi is one hot babe!!!
Hey... if people can have wet dreams over Palin, Pelosi is no different.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Speaking of quantifiable, Pelosi said we'd see "400k jobs almost immediately" with the passage of that health care bill. Now those are metrics. And, yeah...where the fvck are those 400k jobs?

In her creative imagination
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Dogs don't learn to sit by rewarding them when they don't. So many people hate my analogies comparing humans to dogs, but we're not that much different when it comes to behavioral training. If you want someone to work, reward them for working, if they don't cut them off and let them suffer until they work.

A reason people might hate your analogies is something you might understand about how fallacious they are.

Yes, there are similarities between dog training and human behavior.

But the analogy falls short. The issues for human productivity, and a dog sitting, are quite different. You actually make the other side's argument for them, unwittingly.

Your analogy would be fine, if it's saying 'people want a treat - a vacation, a new car, and so don't just give that to them, any more than a dog for not sitting'.

That's the liberal system.

What you are saying is, don't help the poor analogously to saying 'your dog gets no food or shelter or medical care if he won't sit. Leave him out in traffic, starving, and then if he sits he can have those things'. It's nonsensical how far you try to push the analogy when it comes to the poor.

Your view exposes a real lack of any what works as policies, and just regurgitates the simplistic view so many have on your side of what works that leads to a bad economy.

Let's try another analogy. Say we have an agrarian, uneducated population like the early US, and that we are talking about if people got educated, the economy would benefit.

The liberal says, 'let's have the government provide free universal education, to increase opportunity and help every American while improving the economy and growing the pie'.

Your side says, 'good goal, wrong plan. Since the people would benefit from getting education, that will create a market for it, and people will meet that need by providing all the education needed and profit from that, it's a win win, and we'll get universal education just from the market forces'.

Except that's not how it works at all. The economy was still agrarian, and the family needed the kids helping on the crops and nothing was going to happen for education.

The elite had theirs - private elite schools for the 'ruling' class to guarantee the same families mostly kept power - but that was enough.

Before the liberal plan, the right-wing idea didn't work; then the liberal plan was done, and despite all the criticisms of the system, it has had a lot of benefit.

As Frank Rich noted in his book 'The Wrecking Crew: When Conservatives Rule', they just don't get anything much about what makes society work.

What they CAN do is to offer simplistic nice-sounding fluff to people who fall for it and get their support for policies that actually, though it's unadvertised, help the rich.

And they have all kinds of excuses for the widespread harms their policies cause.

The problem with letting industries regulate themselves, that helps lead to too much freedom for BP to cut corners: somehow it was the government's fault. Plummeting wages as policies shift the balance of power to the employers: the workers are greedy and lazy demanding more. And so on.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Craig, bfdd is correct. The brain still works off a reward/punishment mechanism. It's the foundation for all our actions.

That's why such long unemployment hurts the economy, it rewards not working. There's no downside to not working.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
When lenders stop lending for our deadbeats instead of funding the next software startup or gas station you will begin to appreciate how that money was misdirected just like many I'm sure are rethinking building Foxconn factories in China instead of in Los Angeles and wondering where all the jobs went. Until then you are a fool. Reward failure and get willing to bury yourself in debt doing it.

Another post and more new fallacies. See above on wasted singing lessons.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Craig, bfdd is correct. The brain still works off a reward/punishment mechanism. It's the foundation for all our actions.

That's why such long unemployment hurts the economy, it rewards not working. There's no downside to not working.

Less income is a downside, among others.
 

*kjm

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 1999
2,222
6
81
List of people who deserve assistance:
1. People who are helping themselves
2. Children
3. People who are completely incapable of helping themselves

That's it, no one else needs assistance.

edit- realized I put a who in there.

Also people who have put into the system all their lives and now need help..... Brother now 46 got layed off two months before he found out he has cancer only to wait on treatment but has been working from 16yrs on! No not smoking related and has never done that....... it's bone cancer.

He is not wanting a pitty party just help. And darn it he earned it.... not wait till we see if it will be coverd!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I wonder if Craig works for a wall street bank and foreign investment houses. Only people getting rich of this is them. Can't tax em for your ambitious plans, just borrow and make them richer instead, payable through IRS.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Pelosi is a fucking dumbshit. Everyone knows this.

looks to me as if your the one who is a fucking dumbshit!!
Everybodyd doesn`t know what you think they do.
In this case Pelosi is absolutely right!!


Everything Craig has said is absolutely correct....

Slew Foot is another one of those who needs to get over the fact that a Democrat is in the White House and will be for probably at least 2 more terms.
Not necessarily Obama but a Democrat will hold that office!!
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
I wonder if Craig works for a wall street bank and foreign investment houses. Only people getting rich of this is them. Can't tax em for your ambitious plans, just borrow and make them richer instead, payable through IRS.

you are sad and way too funny...and totally wrong!!
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
you are sad and way too funny...and totally wrong!!

orly where you think money is coming from to spend an extra 2 trillion a year?

The 5 savings bonds grandma gave you for graduating HS don't count.