Official Forza Motorsport 3 Thread - Game is OUT

[Kabob]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

The Veyron has more grip because it's AWD.

That is rather contrary to the laws of physics as far as cornering goes. Grip is determined by the amount of friction your tires can generate, if your tires are being used to both turn the vehicle and also put power to the ground you are going to have less cornering grip. All of the top cornering vehicles in the world are RWD, all of them. Besides the issues of friction of the tires, having the additional mechanical requirements add a considerable amount of weight. You can look it up for yourself, all of the top grip cars in the world are RWD and it has always been that way.

While your turning radius may not be as tight AWD allows for a much more planted and controlled maneuvering, plus it aids in that all important/flaunted 0-62 time.

It might handle reasonably well but it was DESIGNED a bragging rights/straight line car through and through.

So it accidentally outhandles the McLaren? You listed the McLaren as an example of a superior car, if the Bugatti can outhandle it on accident then you must think the McLaren is a complete and utter POS so why did you list it?

The McLaren is also an 13 year older design...just the difference in tire technology (plus the Veyron's $11,000/set tires) can make that difference. 3.5 mph faster on the slalom is nice, sure. Pick a modern supercar if you will, the Saleen S7, an Enzo Ferrari, heck, a Ford GT...they're all faster in the slalom than the touted Veyron. And if you say "well it's a AWD thing!" the $33K Mitsubishi Lancer Evo is faster in the slalom than the Veyron, as is the Subaru Impreza WRX STi.

Boring is a good trait in a race car. 12 year olds may not think so, but it is reality. Incredibly predictable is a godsend at 200+.

Race car? Once again, the Veyron is not a race car, it's a street car. To be a race car you have to be eligible to compete in races...which it isn't. And when will you be going 200+? In a straight line...when it's boring.

That's nice, Gordon Murray is the man who designed the McLaren, and he disagrees with your brother in law. I'm going to have to believe the man with a little bit more expertise.

Thank goodness Gordon Murray said so...for all the "Gordon Murray" you're throwing around you need to read the article he wrote about it for Road & Track after testing it...a few quotes for your enjoyment:

Gordon Murray:
The Veyron because of its high CDA figure and huge cooling drag needs 1001 hp to go 12 mph faster than a McLaren F1 producing 627 hp. To help understand the problem of starting a car program from a weak point aerodynamically, we do some calculations: A turbocharged F1 producing 1001 hp would achieve 281 mph assuming the same drivetrain efficiency. Another way of looking at this equation is that an F1 would need "only" 740 hp to reach the Bugatti's top speed. All this demonstrates just what an uphill struggle the Bugatti team faced to achieve their targets.
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For all its 1001 hp, the Veyron falls short of a McLaren F1's power-to-weight figure
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For me, car design is packaging. To create something truly forward-thinking, a designer has to challenge the accepted major component placement in an automobile. Styling innovation becomes more accessible when the packaging is innovative. With the F1, we set out to design the best driver's car we could, and by being innovative with componentry placement, we squeezed three occupants, a V-12, 90 liters of fuel and good luggage space into a car the same size as a Porsche Cayman. The restrictions on styling and innovations are apparent in the Veyron ? the all-wheel drive and power targets must have made the designer's life a nightmare. Although the Bugatti is quite short, it is very wide and suffers from most of the rear mid-engine problems, such as high cowl height, pedal offsets, no luggage space and poor three-quarter rear view.
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Designing a rear mid-engine supercar is never a simple task and a car with 1001 hp [metric horsepower] multiplies the normal design and development problems by a large factor. The Veyron's design team must be applauded because the starting point was so wrong. Arbitrary targets of 1000 hp and 250 mph and 0-60-mph in under 3 seconds were set at the very beginning of the program. But worse still, a styling model was shown and accepted! This is a bad starting point for any car, but for a high-performance car, it's a disaster.
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One final point is that I have always felt a little responsible for starting this lunatic chase for top speed with the McLaren F1 (even though top speed was never one of our targets!), and the Bugatti Veyron should put an end to this nonsense and let the designers get on with the job of designing good fun, efficient sports cars.

Hrm, yeah, he Veyron fan through and through. Granted, I'm sure he's a bit bitter about having his 13 year older design bested in top speed by a few mph and such, but these are all valid points. a 2+ ton car that happens to go fast doesn't make it a great car, it makes it a great engine.

Don't get me wrong, the Veyron is a very impressive car technically. I just think it's horribly overhyped as "THE ULTIMATE CAR!"

Any chance we can get back to talking about FM3 now?

 

[Kabob]

Some sleuthes with way too much time on their hands discovered that a bunch of screen shots of supposedly different tracks are all part of one super track that's taking the place of the snake tracks from FM2.

Info on it here:
Link

Confirmed by BADNED (who works for T10...or something).

 

[ivan2]

Originally posted by: kabob983
Some sleuthes with way too much time on their hands discovered that a bunch of screen shots of supposedly different tracks are all part of one super track that's taking the place of the snake tracks from FM2.

Info on it here:
Link

Confirmed by BADNED (who works for T10...or something).

can't see it at work but was it that track with cliff downhill by the sea (or in the mountain)?

sad to see king cobra go =(

 

[Kabob]

Originally posted by: ivan2
sad to see king cobra go =(

You lie!!!!

Actually, there is one of the snake tracks I really liked (Black Mamba maybe?), the rest I didn't much care for.

Not sure which track you're referencing, it looks like a deserty-area to me (can't see the pics from work either, I saw them early this morning though). Check 'em when you get home.

 

[BenSkywalker]

While your turning radius may not be as tight AWD allows for a much more planted and controlled maneuvering

No, it doesn't. AWD is inferior for cornering, it is a matter of physics.

plus it aids in that all important/flaunted 0-62 time.

When all tires are being used to go in a straight line is when AWD becomes a major help, that is the only time.

The McLaren is also an 13 year older design...just the difference in tire technology (plus the Veyron's $11,000/set tires) can make that difference. 3.5 mph faster on the slalom is nice, sure. Pick a modern supercar if you will, the Saleen S7, an Enzo Ferrari, heck, a Ford GT...they're all faster in the slalom than the touted Veyron. And if you say "well it's a AWD thing!" the $33K Mitsubishi Lancer Evo is faster in the slalom than the Veyron, as is the Subaru Impreza WRX STi.

And the Lotus Elise is faster then any of the super cars you talked about through the slalom. Why? It's lighter. The STi and Evo both fail to match the lateral grip the Veyron has.

Race car? Once again, the Veyron is not a race car, it's a street car. To be a race car you have to be eligible to compete in races...which it isn't. And when will you be going 200+? In a straight line...when it's boring.

Wow, OK- you are right. A 78 Chevette is the ultimate street car. Why is that? Have you ever driven one at 90MPH? It's a white knuckle experience.

Thank goodness Gordon Murray said so...for all the "Gordon Murray" you're throwing around you need to read the article he wrote about it for Road & Track after testing it...a few quotes for your enjoyment:

You notice what he is beating them up on? Straight line performance. Everything negative he has to say is about how the Veyron deal with straight line speed. What he praises is how well it corners. Imagine that. We need to remember though, he isn't a 12 year old and know wtf he's talking about.

 

[chorb]

Originally posted by: kabob983

Originally posted by: ivan2
sad to see king cobra go =(

You lie!!!!

Actually, there is one of the snake tracks I really liked (Black Mamba maybe?), the rest I didn't much care for.

Not sure which track you're referencing, it looks like a deserty-area to me (can't see the pics from work either, I saw them early this morning though). Check 'em when you get home.

No King Cobra reverse in 4500lb+ cars? booooooo

 

[Kabob]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
You notice what he is beating them up on? Straight line performance. Everything negative he has to say is about how the Veyron deal with straight line speed. What he praises is how well it corners. Imagine that. We need to remember though, he isn't a 12 year old and know wtf he's talking about.

Yes, he said it cornered pretty well...and then followed it with his next article that was 95% bashing the car. He's not just bashing the "straight line performance", he's bashing the weight, the design, the philosophy behind the car.

To each his own though, glad you're a fan, I personally am not.

Originally posted by: chorb
No King Cobra reverse in 4500lb+ cars? booooooo

You can already do that...bentleys w/o weight reduction fit the ticket nicely!

 

[BenSkywalker]

Yes, he said it cornered pretty well...and then followed it with his next article that was 95% bashing the car. He's not just bashing the "straight line performance", he's bashing the weight, the design, the philosophy behind the car.

The weight, the design, the philosophy behind the car all relate to either the straght line performance they wanted to get out of it, or the visual appearance of the car.

To each his own though, glad you're a fan, I personally am not.

I find it an exceptionally impressive vehicle. Give me the choice of one extremely rare car I could have at any cost and I'd take a full race prepped Exige putting out ~500hp over they Veyron every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[Kabob]

Exige is mighty impressive...I simply have trouble fitting into the thing, it's microscopic! Buddy of mine was looking at an Exige S and he's shorter than I am (maybe 5'11?) and didn't like the tinyness of the car (granted, he has a '91 Miata as well that I also don't fit into).

For the perfect all around track car the Exige is tough to beat though (assuming there's not a ton of long straights). There's a few of 'em that show up at track days around here.

 

[Kabob]

Pic of the layout of new test track as compiled by said guys with way too much time on their hands:

Link

 

[ivan2]

Originally posted by: kabob983
Pic of the layout of new test track as compiled by said guys with way too much time on their hands:

Link

i think the full track has a little less turns than king cobra, does it? disappointing!

 

[ivan2]

wtf dp

 

[Kabob]

Turn 10's Ferrari Collection Pt. 1 is up.

Shown cars:
1964 250 GTO
1987 F40
1991 512 TR
1995 355 Challenge
1999 360 Modena
2002 Enzo Ferrari
2007 430 Scuderia
2009 California

Also showing their new original track Amalfi Coast.

 

[Kabob]

Microsoft Germany confirms that they will releasing 1-10 car DLC pack per month for 1 year. Don't know if they were supposed to let that slip or not.

Link

That's alot of cars...and alot of $$...

 

[RedRooster]

Whoa, that sure is! It better be the greatest racing game ever conceived by humankind, I think I'm starting to get cold feet.

 

[Kabob]

Ferrari reveal #2 today:

1969 Dino 246 GT
1984 288 GTO
1998 #30 MOMO Doran Racing F333 SP
2002 575M Maranello
2003 #72 Team Alphand Adventures 550 Maranello GTS
2005 #11 Labre Competition 550 Maranello GTS
2003 360 Challenge Stradale
2008 #71 Tafel Racing F430GT
2008 #90 Farnbacher Racing F430GT

Link

 

[Kabob]

Added R class Maserati, Diablo GTR, lots of R class Ferraris, and the R class Porsche GT1.

Edit: Adding a ton of cars.

2003 #1 Champion Racing RS6
2001 #4 Johansson Motorsport R8 [image]
2004 #5 Audi Sport Japan Team Goh R8
2004 #8 Infineon Team ABT Sportsline TT-R
2001 #6 Prototype Technology Group M3-GTR
1971 3.0 CSL E09 [image]
1981 M1 [image]
1991 M3 E30 [image]
1997 M3 E36
1976 131 Abarth
1999 Civic Si Coupe
2003 G35 Coupe
1972 Elan Sprint
2009 #16 Dyson Racing Team Lola B09/86 Mazda (moving from Lola to Mazda)
2005 Axela Sport 23S
2003 Eclipse GTS
2003 #23 XANAVI NISMO GT-R
1994 Fairlady Z Version S Twin Turbo (Z32)
1994 Silvia K's (S14)
2000 Silvia Spec-R (S15)
1992 Skyline GT-R V-Spec (R32)
1970 914/6
1969 2000GT
2004 Beetle
1995 Corrado VR6
1992 Golf GTi 16v (MkII)
2006 Golf GTi (MkV)
2010 Golf GTi (MkVI)

 

[Kabob]

Already announcing DLC:

YouTube

Gamespot

Also updated the car list.

 

[bdubyah]

Already? Really?

If it's all ready to go, why the hell can't it come with the game?

 

[ivan2]

think the cateham or lotus 7 will finally be here?

 

[Kabob]

Originally posted by: ivan2
think the cateham or lotus 7 will finally be here?

I doubt it.

Originally posted by: bdubyah
Already? Really?

If it's all ready to go, why the hell can't it come with the game?

I wonder the same thing. Granted, the Ferrari 458 was literally unveiled a week ago so they've probably not had many chances to record the engine sounds and get the specs and such. Who knows though.

 

[Queasy]

AceyBongos (the EU equivalent of MajorNelson) just tweeted the following about Forza 3's design editor.

Top question you guys asked - will you be able to import FM2 custom designs into FM3?

Unfortunately the answer is no - because the FM3 editor is so much more advanced it wasn't possible. BUT...

A top designer from the FM2 community acted as consultant on the new editor to ensure it's quicker, easier and more powerful!

 

[Lotheron]

Originally posted by: Queasy
AceyBongos (the EU equivalent of MajorNelson) just tweeted the following about Forza 3's design editor.

Top question you guys asked - will you be able to import FM2 custom designs into FM3?

Unfortunately the answer is no - because the FM3 editor is so much more advanced it wasn't possible. BUT...

A top designer from the FM2 community acted as consultant on the new editor to ensure it's quicker, easier and more powerful!

Damn you're fast, that was only 6 minutes ago!

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Lotheron

Originally posted by: Queasy
AceyBongos (the EU equivalent of MajorNelson) just tweeted the following about Forza 3's design editor.

Top question you guys asked - will you be able to import FM2 custom designs into FM3?

Unfortunately the answer is no - because the FM3 editor is so much more advanced it wasn't possible. BUT...

A top designer from the FM2 community acted as consultant on the new editor to ensure it's quicker, easier and more powerful!

Damn you're fast, that was only 6 minutes ago!

TweetDeck.

edit: I'm so freakin' fast that I'm already in your past.

 

[Lotheron]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Lotheron

Originally posted by: Queasy
AceyBongos (the EU equivalent of MajorNelson) just tweeted the following about Forza 3's design editor.

Top question you guys asked - will you be able to import FM2 custom designs into FM3?

Unfortunately the answer is no - because the FM3 editor is so much more advanced it wasn't possible. BUT...

A top designer from the FM2 community acted as consultant on the new editor to ensure it's quicker, easier and more powerful!

Damn you're fast, that was only 6 minutes ago!

TweetDeck.

edit: I'm so freakin' fast that I'm already in your past.

Freakin' mind boggling.