NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[darkswordsman17]

No, I think you are wrong. Look at the nurses and doctors that have to deal with Covid-19 cases, using the best PPE that nearly anyone can get. N95s, face shields, the works. They STILL get sick. Reduced viral load? Check. Still getting sick? Sadly, check. I think the idea of masks reducing viral load and helping people not get "as sick" by introducing virus more-slwoly is probably untrue, and from the evidence I've seen (and experienced firsthand), it's a misrepresentation of the truth. N95 is what "reduces the viral load" better than anything else. It still lets in maybe 1% of the virus that's present in the atmosphere. Should be ideal. It isn't. It gives you a snowball's chance in Hell of being exposed repeatedly to carriers without getting sick at all, but it's not like there's some sliding scale where a little bit more and a little bit more etc. is okay compared to a larger amount. You get sick or you don't. I don't know what the "cut-off" is where you absolutely won't get sick - probably a Haz-mat suit - but N95 is as close as anyone can practically get.

If you are around active cases of Covid-19 and if you are not wearing an N95, I'm just calling it right now: you can wear a mask if it makes you feel good, but if you have that paper mask on around them for hours on end and that mask starts getting damp and shredding along the edges (WHICH IT WILL) then it's only going to make it hard for you to breath. It isn't saving you from a damn thing. Those of us who actually have to go out and be around people and wear these things all know it. We wear them because we're told to do so.

If you have a choice of protection, demand N95 masks AND mandatory testing of everyone in the environment up-front before they enter, and then psuedo-randomized testing of the entire population in rolling groups every 2-3 weeks. That is how you stop Covid-19 in a workplace or a public setting.

Well you're free to keep thinking but when you seem to deliberately ignore the point not sure why you're surprised that people don't agree with your opinion. Your posts in this thread straight up suck. I used to actually respect your posts but holy shit, the ones where you've branched out of the CPU forum are just awful.

They're also exposed to it at a much higher level, and sorry but there will be lapses in stuff like proper mask fit, hand washing, etc. Those people are working long hours and there will be slipups. I take it you're completely fucking oblivious to the fact that they're even having issues sourcing enough N95 masks and so are having to rewear them, likely beyond their actual effectiveness? I'm sure that won't play a role in them getting infected.

Yes, no fucking shit wearing a cloth mask doesn't really keep you from getting it. It helps limit the overall spread though if everyone wears them by limiting how much droplets get into the air (and yes, obviously its far from perfect). I have no clue why you're even arguing this like its something anyone else really is. Its stupid. This is shit that was established months back. The cloth masks really are mainly about trying to limit the asymptomatic spread, or to try and limit how much assholes who are sick but not isolating spread it. We know it is far from perfect (which is why its just part of what is being done, with social distancing being important as well).

You think you'll be able to get that when you can't even get people to wear cloth masks in whatever style they want and wash their hands? Good luck with that. We can't even provide health care workers with enough N95 masks.

Your post could basically be boiled down to "if you take care of sick people with a highly contagious virus, you're probably gonna get sick too" like no fucking shit Captain Obvious.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Ducey in AZ makes no commitment on schools, indicates he plans to keep most restrictions for the foreseeable future, sending 5 masks to anyone over 65 who requests them, and will extend eviction moratorium through the end of October.

Some signs of plateauing in the cases and hospitalization data so the re-closing a few weeks ago could be starting to show up.

With the current state of things, they need to just write off school for the rest of the year and just try distance ed. Yes it sucks and is going to be bad for students and tough on parents, but just like with opening up businesses, there's reasons you don't do it just because its going to be bad. Because doing it stupidly will be worse.

Good on the eviction moratorium, although honestly, I can't fathom it not being extended through the year (can you imagine people getting evicted right before X-mas or Thanksgiving?).

 

[DrMrLordX]

Completely incorrect. Merely reducing viral load is "meaningful" even if it didn't prevent a single infection, which it does. The infection can continue spreading though even while severity drops sharply.

Based on what? That doesn't match any hard data I've seen. Not a single solitary bit. "May" this, "may" that. People get sick wearing masks. Period. You can get ill from as few as 1000 virions entering your system. Surgical-grade paper masks only stop 50% of what's in the air. And that's when they're worn correctly and when they aren't damaged from frequent, repeated use. They're good for maybe an hour or two before they wear out. Believe me, I wear the stupid things. They also don't work when they're pushed off your face by facial hair. They also don't work if you let your nose loose for a bit or remove it to take a swig of water to avoid dehydration.

Somehow we have the will to make people wear generally-ineffective masks but we can't enact widespread testing. If you know who is infected, you don't need to wear masks except when dealing with those people.

And what can't nurses and doctors do they all other people can?

Stop right there. We're all around asymptomatic carriers, probably every day, so long a we go out into the public. We're still struggling with figuring out exactly what risk they represent, and yet somehow the disease keeps spreading among people who don't even seem to have any symptoms.

While the rest of the populace can "get by" with regular cloth masks, the medical staff cannot.

The only thing cloth masks really do is keep people off your back.

You are simply wrong.

Pff, whatever.

No. It can dramatically improve your prospects of recovery because your body can be responding to the virus sooner as the virus replicates to a full-blown infection.

Based on what? I haven't seen any studies proving this as fact, and I'm chalking it up as another Covid-19 talking point that will be forgotten in a month or two as we move on to the next talking point.

Well you're free to keep thinking

Thanks! I wish everyone else here would start thinking.

Your post could basically be boiled down to "if you take care of sick people with a highly contagious virus, you're probably gonna get sick too" like no fucking shit Captain Obvious.

Wrong.

EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE TESTED FOR THE VIRUS. Period! The masks are a lame placebo intended to make YOU think your government officials are taking care of you. Which they are not. Instead of ordering 300+ million tests and having them distributed and processed as of a month ago - which was totally doable - instead we have 300 million doses of vaccine lined up and ready once the trials are complete (supposedly).

People's priorities have become completely twisted.

 

[Ichinisan]

...

The only thing cloth masks really do is keep people off your back.



Pff, whatever.



Based on what? I haven't seen any studies proving this as fact, and I'm chalking it up as another Covid-19 talking point that will be forgotten in a month or two as we move on to the next talking point.



Thanks! I wish everyone else here would start thinking.



Wrong.

EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE TESTED FOR THE VIRUS. Period! The masks are a lame placebo intended to make YOU think your government officials are taking care of you. Which they are not. Instead of ordering 300+ million tests and having them distributed and processed as of a month ago - which was totally doable - instead we have 300 million doses of vaccine lined up and ready once the trials are complete (supposedly).

People's priorities have become completely twisted.

Being assertive with your claims doesn't make them true.

It's commonly understood logic that applies to basically all infectious diseases that our immune systems have the ability to fight.

How much of the coronavirus does it take to make you sick? The science, explained

How much of the coronavirus does it take to make you sick? The science, explained.

www.statnews.com

 

[Scarpozzi]

Based on what? That doesn't match any hard data I've seen. Not a single solitary bit. "May" this, "may" that. People get sick wearing masks. Period. You can get ill from as few as 1000 virions entering your system. Surgical-grade paper masks only stop 50% of what's in the air. And that's when they're worn correctly and when they aren't damaged from frequent, repeated use. They're good for maybe an hour or two before they wear out. Believe me, I wear the stupid things. They also don't work when they're pushed off your face by facial hair. They also don't work if you let your nose loose for a bit or remove it to take a swig of water to avoid dehydration.

Somehow we have the will to make people wear generally-ineffective masks but we can't enact widespread testing. If you know who is infected, you don't need to wear masks except when dealing with those people.



Stop right there. We're all around asymptomatic carriers, probably every day, so long a we go out into the public. We're still struggling with figuring out exactly what risk they represent, and yet somehow the disease keeps spreading among people who don't even seem to have any symptoms.



The only thing cloth masks really do is keep people off your back.



Pff, whatever.



Based on what? I haven't seen any studies proving this as fact, and I'm chalking it up as another Covid-19 talking point that will be forgotten in a month or two as we move on to the next talking point.



Thanks! I wish everyone else here would start thinking.



Wrong.

EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE TESTED FOR THE VIRUS. Period! The masks are a lame placebo intended to make YOU think your government officials are taking care of you. Which they are not. Instead of ordering 300+ million tests and having them distributed and processed as of a month ago - which was totally doable - instead we have 300 million doses of vaccine lined up and ready once the trials are complete (supposedly).

People's priorities have become completely twisted.

I disagree with you on the mask thing. Masks aren't a placebo. It's simple physics...the mask blocks spit for those who spray it when they say it. That's the function they serve. If you've ever worn an N95 or better, you'll know that they not only block particles that could irritate your lungs, but can even block smells.

I used to work with this guy that had a vape pen. He would vape vanilla crap in the office until HR banned it from all buildings. I just remember thinking....I can smell this stuff. It's been in his lungs. That thought has stuck with me to realize how much air is recycled through others when you're indoors.

If you are in a larger area where there is proper ventilation, you have better odds of not getting infected. Think about someone vaping in the meat department of a grocery store while you're in the front of the store...you probably won't smell it until you get to the cheese section, but by then you'll only smell a little vanilla and might not even notice. Furthermore, if you come into contact with an airborne virus, there's a chance it won't propagate. Infected people that are expelling the virus can be in varying stages of infection or recovery. That causes the virus they are expelling to be more or less contagious. Additionally, the ambient temperature and humidity surrounding the individuals also change the likelihood of transmission. The whole thing isn't black and white. This goes back to what CZroe was saying about viral load. It's like planting seeds in a garden...not all of them sprout and some may be snuffed out before they can propagate in your system. BUT...this all hinges on 1. Intensity of Exposure (How much) 2. Time of Exposure (How long).

If even one or both (better) individuals are wearing masks, it reduces #1 because people aren't expelling as many droplets. To be clear...lower humidity actually allows the virus to travel farther distances because the particles will float if the fine droplets dry midair. More reason you want to catch more in a mask so they'll turn into a soggy viral lump in the lining of the mask itself.

Mask mandates are not being put in place by governments to harm peoples' rights.
Masks are NOT a political statement.
Masks are a way you can help protect others you care about.
I wear one to protect my family and my parents. Even 10% effectiveness is worth it to me because I don't want any of my loved ones to get sick.

 

[CZroe]

Based on what? That doesn't match any hard data I've seen.

Only because you've had your head in the sand and keep arguing with anyone who tries to tell you.

You DON'T know as much as you think you do and yet you resist those who try to tell you what you don't know to the point where you even deny proven truth... like that lower viral load result in less severe infection and that masks effectively reduce viral load even when the fail to prevent an infection. They also prevent some infections and their effectiveness goes up by an order of magnitude goes up exponentially when everyone is wearing them.

We already KNOW that masks, distancing, and hand sanitizing would get this under control if everyone practiced them. We'd be right in line with so many asian countries that never even had to lock down.

Not a single solitary bit. "May" this, "may" that. People get sick wearing masks. Period. You can get ill from as few as 1000 virions entering your system.

...and this, right here, it your comprehension problem. You think it's binary, either infected or not infected. It's more like:
Not infected
Asymptomatic
Barely symptomatic
Slightly sick
Sick
Very sick
Severely ill (requires hospitalization)
Deadly ill

Someone who fights it off faster and uneventfully will obviously have a lower r0. Reducing the viral load is proven to drastically reduce the chance of contracting the infection and the severity if you do get infected. This is not a theory as much as you deny it.

Even though they are more effective at preventing the infected from spreading the virus, you are 6 times more likely to contract the virus without a mask (3% with a mask versus 17% without a mask). The second video shows this.

The hamster study obviously didn't involve sealed N95 masks. It also showed how the viral load of each infection was reduced even for the hamsters that got the virus. The severity if the resulting infections was lower merely by placing the mask material between their cages.

Surgical-grade paper masks only stop 50% of what's in the air. And that's when they're worn correctly and when they aren't damaged from frequent, repeated use. They're good for maybe an hour or two before they wear out. Believe me, I wear the stupid things. They also don't work when they're pushed off your face by facial hair. They also don't work if you let your nose loose for a bit or remove it to take a swig of water to avoid dehydration.

50% is a lot.

It's even better than that when the infected people around you are also wearing them.

Also, they aren't really paper (as much as the feel like it)... unless they are fake.

Somehow we have the will to make people wear generally-ineffective masks but we can't enact widespread testing. If you know who is infected, you don't need to wear masks except when dealing with those people.

They are not "generally-ineffective," especially when you broaden what you will accept as "effective" (reducing viral load).

Also, speaking of taking false comfort: we are WAY beyond the possibility of containing it with contact tracing. Contact tracing is just a way to effectively distribute tests and find people who are likely sick faster.

You say we need more testing to beat this and yet here I am, able to go get tested whenever I want for free and get my results in a day... all while the Atlanta mayor plays politics with the governor and says he should spend the money spent on the state's lawsuit against her on more testing. Even if you had the capacity to test everyone all at once, how do you MAKE them? You can't. We are WAY beyond the possibility of containing it merely with testing and contact tracing. Welcome to January/February... now it's just something people say to feel reasoned when arguing against masks.

 

[CZroe]

Partly because mixed messages leads to stupid disputes

???

So, he's been pro-mask the whole time, telling everyone that they should wear them and encouraging them to in every way, but stopping short of mandating them is "mixed messages?"

You seriously blame all those "disputes" you linked on the lack of a mandate? With people here assuming that he is blocking Walmart and Sam's Club from mandating masks (he's not), it's clear that politics is the bigger issue.

While I would have liked to see a mandate, I can't possibly agree with you here. You are having a politically-charged reaction based on politically-charged reporting and politically-assumptive reactions that the politically-charged reporting wanted.

Governors decide for their state whether or not to mandate masks. He can't do that if each city and county decides for themselves, and the state considers it unenforceable anyway. That's why he took the decision away from cities and counties. I don't think enforcement is the issue. I want to see him issue a statewide mandate, just like neighboring Alabama (also decided by their governor).

Atlanta defied the state and got sued. Suing Atlanta isn't going to help but neither is the Atlanta mayor's suggestion in reaponse that he spend the lawsuit money on more testing, since Georgia has loads of untapped testing capacity available for free to anyone who wants it with results in as little as a day (they say three but we got then back in less than a day the two times we tried it).

 

[Svnla]

India has the third highest infection number in the world, with over 1 million cases as of today. It is imposing lock down again.

 

[thestrangebrew1]

Our school board voted to open school with distance learning and revisit policy as data changes. It's probably not going to matter since Newsom is going to make the call for the entire state sometime today.

 

[K1052]

Looks like the gov of Iowa will require their schools to reopen in person learning. This is going to last 2-3 weeks before there is an explosion of sick kids and teachers/staff. The US hasn't dedicated the cash to making a safe-ish return to education possible.

 

[K1052]

More indications that the amount of viral exposure has a big impact on disease severity pointing again to the important benefits mask adoption confers. Masking means less transmission and the transmission that does happen is less impactful on health.

This is another reason to be wary of some of the animal studies done on vaccine candidates that show questionable protection at single dosing because they're giving the animals just absurd amounts of virus nobody will ever encounter in the real world right up the nose. Protection, and certainly illness prevention, could come at a lower threshold than previously anticipated.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1283925162929410055

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Looks like the gov of Iowa will require their schools to reopen in person learning. This is going to last 2-3 weeks before there is an explosion of sick kids and teachers/staff. The US hasn't dedicated the cash to making a safe-ish return to education possible.

Honestly at this point they should just make all kids just repeat a grade or something.

This online teaching stuff just isn't going to fly and it's going to be a disaster.

I'm not saying open the schools in-person by any means - just saying that online is just a HAIR above pointlessness.

 

[K1052]

Honestly at this point they should just make all kids just repeat a grade or something.

This online teaching stuff just isn't going to fly and it's going to be a disaster.

I'm not saying open the schools in-person by any means - just saying that online is just a HAIR above pointlessness.

There is surely some age cut off where distance learning is workable but for younger kids I think this is going to be a lost year.

 

[Kaido]

???

So, he's been pro-mask the whole time, telling everyone that they should wear them and encouraging them to in every way, but stopping short of mandating them is "mixed messages?"

You seriously blame all those "disputes" you linked on the lack of a mandate? With people here assuming that he is blocking Walmart and Sam's Club from mandating masks (he's not), it's clear that politics is the bigger issue.

While I would have liked to see a mandate, I can't possibly agree with you here. You are having a politically-charged reaction based on politically-charged reporting and politically-assumptive reactions that the politically-charged reporting wanted.

Governors decide for their state whether or not to mandate masks. He can't do that if each city and county decides for themselves, and the state considers it unenforceable anyway. That's why he took the decision away from cities and counties. I don't think enforcement is the issue. I want to see him issue a statewide mandate, just like neighboring Alabama (also decided by their governor).

Atlanta defied the state and got sued. Suing Atlanta isn't going to help but neither is the Atlanta mayor's suggestion in reaponse that he spend the lawsuit money on more testing, since Georgia has loads of untapped testing capacity available for free to anyone who wants it with results in as little as a day (they say three but we got then back in less than a day the two times we tried it).

I think this applies to the broader topic of human psychology. There's a large segment of the population who is saying "well, they're not mandating it, therefore it's not that serious...therefore I don't need to wear one." Now all of these states who were late to the game are getting hammered with rising numbers. CNN headline news, right now, is saying we just broke another coronavirus record nationwide:

Fauci implores state and local leaders to 'be as forceful as possible' with mask orders

The nation's top infectious disease expert on Friday urged governors and mayors to "be as forceful as possible" to get people to wear face coverings.

www.cnn.com

Clear leadership comes from the top, and the government currently has a credibility problem because they've played with the numbers so much over the last few months that nobody trusts anything the government says about the virus by now. Taking the approach of not mandating masks, but saying "we encourage you to wear them", all while we're climbing in infection & deathrates nationwide, tells a certain segment of the population that it's not as serious as it is, and therefore we get lax results. I think a better approach would be:

1. Make masks state-mandated
2. Tell people the truth: the government doesn't know all of the details yet, but this is serious, and we'd rather err on the side of caution, given how low-impact wearing a mask in public is
3. Provide free masks so that it's a non-issue. Deliver disposable ones to the local police HQ, grocery stores, etc. Make it easy, convenient, and zero-cost to be compliant.
4. Reassure people that they're not going to get ticketed for not wearing a mask or not social distancing, but it's a mandate based on the best information we know so far. People need a reason to buy into things, even if the reason isn't perfect.

My state borders NYC & we've had a fairly low death count relative to them; while correlation is not causation, everyone here started wearing masks & social distancing back in April because it was legally mandated. The governor was very clear about both of those topics:

https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/Office-of-the-Governor/Executive-Orders/Lamont-Executive-Orders/Executive-Order-No-7BB.pdf?la=en

It's absolutely unenforceable, but that's not the point - the point is that there is a large segment of the population who buys into whatever is said without looking deeper, so if the governor comes out & says nah, it's not mandated, then even if he says he recommends that people wear them, that segment of the population isn't going to take it very seriously. Then you end up with headlines like this:

As COVID-19 Swells In Georgia, Governor Wipes Mask Orders Across The State

On Wednesday, Republican Gov. Brian Kemp quashed all local orders that require masks as the state saw its second-highest count of new cases of COVID-19.

www.wbur.org

Again - it's not everyone, but there is a segment of people who buy into the face value of government orders, news headlines, etc. & draws their own conclusions based on that alone. Georgia just had their second-highest count of new cases of COVID-19, and the public order is to remove the mask mandate. Yes, this seems like mixed messaging to me. Yes, I do think this leads to disputes down the road between what is legal state-wide & what is required within a particular company. Not every situation, not every time, but legal orders & conflicting information do have an impact on the behavior of the population.

 

[K1052]

Newsom says only counties not on the monitoring list for two weeks can open schools for in person learning. 30some counties including basically all the most populous ones are on the monitoring list AFAIK. So that's kinda that for CA.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Ran into this image online - and I feel that it does a damn perfect job of explaining the types of people we have in the US.

It quickly relates to the same types that cry about wearing a mask.

Just goes to show we drastically need a change in our overall culture.

 

[thestrangebrew1]

Ran into this image online - and I feel that it does a damn perfect job of explaining the types of people we have in the US.

It quickly relates to the same types that cry about wearing a mask.

Just goes to show we drastically need a change in our overall culture.


View attachment 26121

GTK. Wife and I return the shopping cart like 99% of the time. Only time we really don't do it is when the collection area is already full of carts and there's just no room. We'll find a spot close to the area and put it there. We make sure it's on a curb or something else so it doesn't roll back out into the lane.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

GTK. Wife and I return the shopping cart like 99% of the time. Only time we really don't do it is when the collection area is already full of carts and there's just no room. We'll find a spot close to the area and put it there. We make sure it's on a curb or something else so it doesn't roll back out into the lane.

It's almost libertarian in nature of the types of people who say to themselves "I don't want to be a burden onto other people".

It's the same reason I always check behind me in places like grocery stores to make sure there isn't someone looking for me to get out of their way.

 

[thestrangebrew1]

So my County decided that since the numbers were going up so fast, they decided to stop contact testing all-together. For the past 2-3 weeks we haven't been following up:

Without a trace: This California county has stopped contact tracing as coronavirus surges

Merced County promised 42 contact tracers to interview infected people. But it’s not actually tracing. “All of us got sick, and the county didn’t do anything to help us.”

calmatters.org

What a joke. But hey let's rollout a new campaign:

Ready2Open Self Certification - Reopen Merced County

As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to challenge our state and country, Merced County businesses have an opportunity to continue being leaders in the fight to prevent further spread. Our businesses have been going above and beyond in many cases.

reopenmercedcounty.com

Let's have businesses "self-certify" that they're practicing recommended guidelines.

 

[K1052]

Texas reports 174 deaths in a day.

 

[Svnla]

Received this email about 1 hour ago from Big Blue Box.

Dear valued customer,

From the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, our priority has been the health and safety of both you and our associates.

Starting Monday, July 20, we will require all customers to wear a face covering while shopping in our stores. According to the CDC and other health officials, COVID-19 can be spread by people who do not have symptoms and don’t know they are infected. This is a simple step that we and other retailers are taking to help protect your safety and the safety of others.

You may already be wearing a face covering while you shop. In fact, about 65 percent of our stores are located in areas where there is some form of government mandate on face coverings.

We’ll have a health ambassador stationed near the entrance of our stores to help remind you of this policy. The ambassadors will be identifiable by their black polo shirts.

We also encourage you to try our pickup and delivery services, which do not require the use of a mask. Sign up through our app or Walmart.com.

Thank you for being an important part of the Walmart family, and for your help in ensuring that shopping at our stores is a safe experience for all.

-The Walmart Customer Care Team

Saw on the news that Target, Kroger, Lowes, Home Depot, and other big box stores would require everyone to wear a mask/face cover by now or soon.

 

[K1052]

Received this email about 1 hour ago.



Saw on the news that Target, Kroger, Lowes, Home Depot, and other big box stores would require everyone to wear a mask/face cover.

Saw one from Publix too.

 

[Svnla]

Fake masks? Masks that offer no protection.

Anti-mask protesters' new weapon: wearing masks that offer no COVID-19 protection

Face masks made of mesh, crochet (yarn) or lace are now popular items being offered by online retailers.

www.wthr.com

 

[local]

It's almost libertarian in nature of the types of people who say to themselves "I don't want to be a burden onto other people".

It's the same reason I always check behind me in places like grocery stores to make sure there isn't someone looking for me to get out of their way.

The cart is always returned and if I pass another abandoned cart on my way to return it I grab that one too.

Our local store does not have cart returns they still do the thing where the bagger hauls the cart to your car with you and takes it back in. At the beginning of this thing they did not have the baggers doing that just someone rounding up the loose carts every once in a while. We all remember the stores being wiped out and the pandemonium going on then, they did not have anyone available to gather carts. During that time I took my cart all the way back into the store for them. It was the right thing to do. One time there was a big biker looking guy doing it as well, head nods of approval were had.

 

[local]

Fake masks? Masks that offer no protection.

Anti-mask protesters' new weapon: wearing masks that offer no COVID-19 protection

Face masks made of mesh, crochet (yarn) or lace are now popular items being offered by online retailers.

www.wthr.com

My boss said if forced he will wear a fish net, one of the big open ones. I want a picture of that.