Artorias
Platinum Member
- Feb 8, 2014
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CZroe
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2001
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Exactly. I don't think whether or not it's enforceable should have ever been a consideration, since many entities (like employers and businesses open to the public) only needed an excuse that wouldn't anger whoever they're imposing it on (employees, customers, etc). If the state mandates it then they can point to the state. At the same time, it gives people who may not have realized the importance reason to believe it is important.I think this applies to the broader topic of human psychology. There's a large segment of the population who is saying "well, they're not mandating it, therefore it's not that serious...therefore I don't need to wear one." Now all of these states who were late to the game are getting hammered with rising numbers. CNN headline news, right now, is saying we just broke another coronavirus record nationwide:
Fauci implores state and local leaders to 'be as forceful as possible' with mask orders
The nation's top infectious disease expert on Friday urged governors and mayors to "be as forceful as possible" to get people to wear face coverings.www.cnn.com
Clear leadership comes from the top, and the government currently has a credibility problem because they've played with the numbers so much over the last few months that nobody trusts anything the government says about the virus by now. Taking the approach of not mandating masks, but saying "we encourage you to wear them", all while we're climbing in infection & deathrates nationwide, tells a certain segment of the population that it's not as serious as it is, and therefore we get lax results. I think a better approach would be:
1. Make masks state-mandated
2. Tell people the truth: the government doesn't know all of the details yet, but this is serious, and we'd rather err on the side of caution, given how low-impact wearing a mask in public is
3. Provide free masks so that it's a non-issue. Deliver disposable ones to the local police HQ, grocery stores, etc. Make it easy, convenient, and zero-cost to be compliant.
4. Reassure people that they're not going to get ticketed for not wearing a mask or not social distancing, but it's a mandate based on the best information we know so far. People need a reason to buy into things, even if the reason isn't perfect.
My state borders NYC & we've had a fairly low death count relative to them; while correlation is not causation, everyone here started wearing masks & social distancing back in April because it was legally mandated. The governor was very clear about both of those topics:
It's absolutely unenforceable, but that's not the point - the point is that there is a large segment of the population who buys into whatever is said without looking deeper, so if the governor comes out & says nah, it's not mandated, then even if he says he recommends that people wear them, that segment of the population isn't going to take it very seriously. Then you end up with headlines like this:
As COVID-19 Swells In Georgia, Governor Wipes Mask Orders Across The State
On Wednesday, Republican Gov. Brian Kemp quashed all local orders that require masks as the state saw its second-highest count of new cases of COVID-19.www.wbur.org
Again - it's not everyone, but there is a segment of people who buy into the face value of government orders, news headlines, etc. & draws their own conclusions based on that alone. Georgia just had their second-highest count of new cases of COVID-19, and the public order is to remove the mask mandate. Yes, this seems like mixed messaging to me. Yes, I do think this leads to disputes down the road between what is legal state-wide & what is required within a particular company. Not every situation, not every time, but legal orders & conflicting information do have an impact on the behavior of the population.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 46,059
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The masking thing reminds me of how insane people went when you couldn’t smoke in restaurants anymore. It was a big deal for a few months then it’s just what happens and now people would look at you like you took a dump on the table if you lit up.
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 37,514
- 8,103
- 136
77,000 confirmed new cases in the last day in the US. How many actual new cases (the number of people who contracted covid-19 in the last day?) who knows... 700,000? Maybe a million.
Seems like 4 months ago that you heard maybe one or two cases a week, and all traced to Wuhan.
I swear, when I saw video at the end of January of what the Chinese were doing in Wuhan I knew we were in for a calamity. They were going ballistic trying to contain it. That meant 2 things:
1. It was a very serious disease
2. It was extremely contagious.
The USA is not capable right now of dealing with this kind of threat, as we have been seeing
- - - -
Wikipedia on the outbreak in Wuhan:
On 23 January 2020, the central government of China imposed a lockdown in Wuhan and other cities in Hubei in an effort to quarantine the center of an outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19); this action is commonly referred to as the "Wuhan lockdown" (Chinese: ????; pinyin: Wuhàn feng chéng). The World Health Organization (WHO), although stating that it was beyond its own guidelines, commended the move, calling it "unprecedented in public health history".[2]
The lockdown in Wuhan set the precedent for similar measures in other Chinese cities. Within hours of the Wuhan lockdown, travel restrictions were also imposed on the nearby cities of Huanggang and Ezhou, and were eventually imposed on all 15 other cities in Hubei, affecting a total of about 57 million people.[3][4] On 2 February 2020, Wenzhou, Zhejiang, implemented a seven-day lockdown in which only one person per household was allowed to exit once each two days, and most of the highway exits were closed.[5] On 13 March 2020, Huangshi[6] and Qianjiang[7] became the first Hubei cities to remove strict travel restrictions within part or all of their administrative confines. On April 8, 2020, the Wuhan lockdown officially ended.[8]
Some Western observers, such as Amnesty International, were initially skeptical of the lockdown;[9][10] however, as the COVID-19 pandemic worsened, similar measures were enacted around the globe.
en.wikipedia.org
Seems like 4 months ago that you heard maybe one or two cases a week, and all traced to Wuhan.
I swear, when I saw video at the end of January of what the Chinese were doing in Wuhan I knew we were in for a calamity. They were going ballistic trying to contain it. That meant 2 things:
1. It was a very serious disease
2. It was extremely contagious.
The USA is not capable right now of dealing with this kind of threat, as we have been seeing
- - - -
Wikipedia on the outbreak in Wuhan:
On 23 January 2020, the central government of China imposed a lockdown in Wuhan and other cities in Hubei in an effort to quarantine the center of an outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19); this action is commonly referred to as the "Wuhan lockdown" (Chinese: ????; pinyin: Wuhàn feng chéng). The World Health Organization (WHO), although stating that it was beyond its own guidelines, commended the move, calling it "unprecedented in public health history".[2]
The lockdown in Wuhan set the precedent for similar measures in other Chinese cities. Within hours of the Wuhan lockdown, travel restrictions were also imposed on the nearby cities of Huanggang and Ezhou, and were eventually imposed on all 15 other cities in Hubei, affecting a total of about 57 million people.[3][4] On 2 February 2020, Wenzhou, Zhejiang, implemented a seven-day lockdown in which only one person per household was allowed to exit once each two days, and most of the highway exits were closed.[5] On 13 March 2020, Huangshi[6] and Qianjiang[7] became the first Hubei cities to remove strict travel restrictions within part or all of their administrative confines. On April 8, 2020, the Wuhan lockdown officially ended.[8]
Some Western observers, such as Amnesty International, were initially skeptical of the lockdown;[9][10] however, as the COVID-19 pandemic worsened, similar measures were enacted around the globe.
COVID-19 lockdown in China - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
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Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 37,514
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- 136
Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
- Feb 14, 2004
- 48,414
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I still remember going to a nice buffet in town as a kid (back when they had good ones) & there was a non-smoking & smoking section, and the smoking section looked like something out of a fire alarm training video from school & would seep over to our area. Growing up with asthma, it wasn't the most fun lol. Buuuuuut their chocolate cake was amazing (imagine the one from Matilda) & it was all you can eat. I made friends with the chef there pretty quickly lol.
Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
- Feb 14, 2004
- 48,414
- 5,270
- 136
77,000 confirmed new cases in the last day in the US. How many actual new cases (the number of people who contracted covid-19 in the last day?) who knows... 700,000? Maybe a million.
Seems like 4 months ago that you heard maybe one or two cases a week, and all traced to Wuhan.
I swear, when I saw video at the end of January of what the Chinese were doing in Wuhan I knew we were in for a calamity. They were going ballistic trying to contain it. That meant 2 things:
1. It was a very serious disease
2. It was extremely contagious.
The USA is not capable right now of dealing with this kind of threat, as we have been seeing
- - - -
Wikipedia on the outbreak in Wuhan:
On 23 January 2020, the central government of China imposed a lockdown in Wuhan and other cities in Hubei in an effort to quarantine the center of an outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19); this action is commonly referred to as the "Wuhan lockdown" (Chinese: ????; pinyin: Wuhàn feng chéng). The World Health Organization (WHO), although stating that it was beyond its own guidelines, commended the move, calling it "unprecedented in public health history".[2]
The lockdown in Wuhan set the precedent for similar measures in other Chinese cities. Within hours of the Wuhan lockdown, travel restrictions were also imposed on the nearby cities of Huanggang and Ezhou, and were eventually imposed on all 15 other cities in Hubei, affecting a total of about 57 million people.[3][4] On 2 February 2020, Wenzhou, Zhejiang, implemented a seven-day lockdown in which only one person per household was allowed to exit once each two days, and most of the highway exits were closed.[5] On 13 March 2020, Huangshi[6] and Qianjiang[7] became the first Hubei cities to remove strict travel restrictions within part or all of their administrative confines. On April 8, 2020, the Wuhan lockdown officially ended.[8]
Some Western observers, such as Amnesty International, were initially skeptical of the lockdown;[9][10] however, as the COVID-19 pandemic worsened, similar measures were enacted around the globe.
COVID-19 lockdown in China - Wikipedia
It's really unbelievable how much life has changed in the last 8 months. Going back to the beginning of this thread is a trip:
NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD
This is supposed to be like SARS. I don't want to be near airports, casinos, boat cruises, or Asia. This is really making me reconsider my vacation travel plans for this year. Anyone else worried this is way more serious than what the China government publicly announced or am I being too...
forums.anandtech.com
January 2020:
Wuhan virus death toll rises to 26 as China moves to restrict travel in more cities
Authorities in China have halted public transport and imposed hardening states of urban lockdown on more than 25 million people in seven cities
www.theglobeandmail.com
Fifth US case of coronavirus confirmed as China warns people can spread the virus before they feel ill | CNN
Another case of coronavirus has been confirmed, in Arizona, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Sunday, bringing the total to five cases in the United States.
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 37,514
- 8,103
- 136
It's been 6 months. 5 known cases in US back then. 77,000 US cases in the last reported single day this week. Lester Holt last night at the end of his daily 1/2 hour NBC newscast presented his personal view. "We are losing the battle."
We need a CV czar here. Pence and Kushner are flakes. Sorry to get political, but the only way to stop armageddon here is with canny political action.
We need a CV czar here. Pence and Kushner are flakes. Sorry to get political, but the only way to stop armageddon here is with canny political action.
Ichinisan
Lifer
- Oct 9, 2002
- 28,298
- 1,234
- 136
When looking back, bear in mind that low case numbers are misleading. When they say "3 cases in [state]," there were probably actually hundreds or thousands already. A large portion of cases would have been asymptomatic or clinically diagnosed as flu (no test performed). Tests generally were not available for a long time in USA. When tests were finally available, they weren't administered to anyone who hadn't traveled to China. They still had to ration tests for a while after mass testing began, so many states were only allowing symptomatic people to be tested.
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 37,514
- 8,103
- 136
I'm aware of those things. However it is interesting that for quite a while each confirmed case was traced back to Wuhan, or at least Hubei Province. That can be partly attributed to the fact that they would naturally suspect a flu-like illness in someone just back from Wuhan might be CV. The first known community spread case of CV was IIRC in CA, a bit more than a month after other cases were being reported, i.e. per this release by the CDC on Feb. 26.
CDC Confirms Possible Instance of Community Spread of COVID-19 in U.S.:
Yup. Dare I say... by the time it started becoming media-attention to the point of freaking everyone out (Mid-March?) I'm convinced I already had it in February.
Traveled to Orlando for work conference with the family - which is basically a huge mecca of international travel. I honestly can't think of a place where more international people go to than Orlando.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 46,059
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Orlando is a top 5 US destination for foreign visitors IIRC but still quite a bit behind NYC, Miami, LA, etc.
NYC I get for all the international business from certain richer countries.
Miami, LA though? Nah I don't believe it. I mean, for fucks sake Miami is a giant shithole, who the hell would go there?!
I guess it also depends how you define it - I believe Orlando gets people from ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL over. European, LATAM, APAC, etc... Places like LA I figure get more APAC and less of the others.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 46,059
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NYC I get for all the international business from certain richer countries.
Miami, LA though? Nah I don't believe it. I mean, for fucks sake Miami is a giant shithole, who the hell would go there?!
I guess it also depends how you define it - I believe Orlando gets people from ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL over. European, LATAM, APAC, etc... Places like LA I figure get more APAC and less of the others.
Orlando is busy with international tourism, just not to the degree of beating the big 3 US cities that are the primary international travel gateways.
This is from 2018:
https://www.businessinsider.com/most-tourists-north-america-2018-12#1-new-york-city-new-york-12
NYC - 13.5M
Miami - 8M
LA - 7.2M
Vegas - 6.5M
Orlando - 5.4M
Back in Feb, the GF and I as well as every single one of my co-workers got absolutely slobberknocked by something over the course of about a week and a half. Not one of us was out for less than two days. No idea if it was the Rona, but it was around the time that all our international students were coming back to roost.
Scarpozzi
Lifer
- Jun 13, 2000
- 26,389
- 1,778
- 126
This is what happens when you have a nation of people who come from terrible family backgrounds. They care nothing about protecting their loved ones and others.Fake masks? Masks that offer no protection.
Anti-mask protesters' new weapon: wearing masks that offer no COVID-19 protection
Face masks made of mesh, crochet (yarn) or lace are now popular items being offered by online retailers.www.wthr.com
Re: fake masks:
As with all/most here, i just can't get my head wrapped around the whole anti-mask thing. Not only not wearing a mask, but they put a lot of effort into not wearing one. Buying/making useless ones or buying/making the exemptions cards.
ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
- 25,135
- 2,445
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I mean, I get it... some people just don't like being told what to do and what to think. There has been a lot a that this year. I still get pissed off when people post memes on social media about wearing a mask everywhere. It's not that I disagree with their opinion, it's just that I don't want to be reminded for the twentieth time that week that I need to wear one.
CZroe
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2001
- 24,195
- 856
- 126
Miami could be all the Panamax cargo ships that dock there after passing through the canal but I would think New Orleans gets a lot of those too.NYC I get for all the international business from certain richer countries.
Miami, LA though? Nah I don't believe it. I mean, for fucks sake Miami is a giant shithole, who the hell would go there?!
I guess it also depends how you define it - I believe Orlando gets people from ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL over. European, LATAM, APAC, etc... Places like LA I figure get more APAC and less of the others.
There's a difference between being stubborn & being stupid. We are told what to do in a lot of areas of day-to-day living. Is wearing a mask any different than the old "no shirt, no shoes, no service" signs stores had up? I don't know about anyone else but i can't remember the last time i saw a shirtless or shoeless person in a store. And that's not even health related but people honor that. OK, no shoes could be health related.
There are probably other examples too.
Seems like some are just looking to be confrontational about anything. Mask are giving them an easy target.
Scarpozzi
Lifer
- Jun 13, 2000
- 26,389
- 1,778
- 126
There will always be a group of people that claim their voices aren't heard and they protest and march around about it. I totally understand the BLM movement and agree with a lot of that, minus attempting to defund the police. My point, some people just like to protest for the sake of being different. Once again, I point at family values as the culprit. If their mommies and daddies told them they were special, they wouldn't have to prove it by being stupid and standing out.
njdevilsfan87
Platinum Member
- Apr 19, 2007
- 2,330
- 251
- 126
Sometimes I wonder if COVID is the end of the old America. Because even if team blue wins in November, and we get a vaccine that allows to go back normal sometime early next year, the way so much of this country has acted and responded to this issue has tainted my view of it and our people more than I could have ever imagined prior to this. People putting on fake masks in spite of guidelines just does it for me. Because it's not just one or two... there's just so many of them.
How do you go forward from here? I have a feeling everyone will play ignorant until the next major socioeconomic meltdown.
How do you go forward from here? I have a feeling everyone will play ignorant until the next major socioeconomic meltdown.
Muse
Lifer
- Jul 11, 2001
- 37,514
- 8,103
- 136
To me it appears that there's a whole lot of Americans who are all but suicidal in their attitudes and politics. Classless doesn't do them justice. "Deplorables" was a bad word for Hillary to utter but it's not wrong, just not appropriate for a politician to say.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 110,597
- 29,230
- 146
so...it's out of "annoyance of being reminded of your social responsibility as an adult human" that leads to this pettiness?
ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
- 25,135
- 2,445
- 126
No, it's more like when you were a kid and your mom told you to brush your teeth every night. It doesn't really matter if you were good or bad about doing it, you probably got sick of hearing it around the twentieth time.
I guess that it's like any other form of advertising... once you've heard the message one too many times, you start to hold a grudge against the messenger.
Of course, I've been basically ordered to wear a mask since April in my state. Maybe the experience is different in states where the mask ban is new?
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