NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
23,233
13,324
136
Why would with of you assume that? The damage from smoking is not from the nicotine, and a lot of vapes don't even have that. There have been issues that require regulation (bad formulas=popcorn lung), sure, but it's mostly hysteria and theatrics.

Not a vaper in case anyone thinks I'm just defending my vices. Just thinking critically.


It isn't just the formulations.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
146
There are a shocking number of people who are one paycheck away from being on the streets. I find it easy to believe that this created a perfect storm for some of them and that they're suffering to the point of homelessness with no magic involved.

I totally and completely understand that... hence my point of "rent is generally due on the first of the month". Hence, this month's rent was likely paid for already. The "shit show" has exponentially been growing over the last 2 weeks.... the week of March 1st, I didn't hear of mass layoffs like today.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
23,233
13,324
136
My bank sent out an email offering mortgage payment relief. I don't have a mortgage through them, but apparently those that do will be able to suspend payments for a few months. Would be nice if some landlords could do the same.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
Does Mobile Klean actually work? For sure my device touches everything...

Only review(s) I can find on it are written in broken English which means it's likely not an authentic review.

 

OccamsToothbrush

Golden Member
Aug 21, 2005
1,389
828
136
I totally and completely understand that... hence my point of "rent is generally due on the first of the month". Hence, this month's rent was likely paid for already. The "shit show" has exponentially been growing over the last 2 weeks.... the week of March 1st, I didn't hear of mass layoffs like today.

Oh, wow! You didn't hear of mass layoffs, well, that really deepens the mystery. Because of course every job lost was part of a mass layoff and was on your radar screen from day one.
 

H T C

Senior member
Nov 7, 2018
614
458
136
Rent is generally due on the first of the month - as crazy as this current situation is, I find it hard to believe that someone is magically suffering to the point of homelessness over the course of 3 weeks.....

On top of that, the eviction process is definitely going to be a nightmare right now....

But hey - maybe I'm wrong....

Over here in Portugal, the government took steps to ensure that would NOT happen: for the next 3 months rental contracts are renewed automatically and evictions are forbidden.

There have been a bunch of other steps that try, among other things, to keep jobs, such as the government is offering credit to businesses but ONLY IF they don't fire people.

All the measures taken thus far are not enough IMO, but they are most surely steps in the right direction.

ALL COUNTRIES will face economic hardships once this virus is gone: some more than others.
 
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highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,973
6,340
136
Does Mobile Klean actually work? For sure my device touches everything...

Only review(s) I can find on it are written in broken English which means it's likely not an authentic review.

10 min contact bleach
2 min vinegar
1 peroxide.

Soap and water...instantenious

Maybe not but it sounds good.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
In other news, GM is advertising several vehicles with 0% for 84 months and no payment first month. That's seven (7) years with no interest.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,349
270
126
Just reactivated my produce delivery service. Lots of items on the site like milk and butter are already sold out for this week's delivery, but luckily I don't need them yet. I'll try to add those things next week as soon as box customization becomes available. As this grows I'm looking to avoid having to set foot in a grocery store until we see social distancing working. We won't know for about another 2 weeks.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
Rent is generally due on the first of the month - as crazy as this current situation is, I find it hard to believe that someone is magically suffering to the point of homelessness over the course of 3 weeks.....

On top of that, the eviction process is definitely going to be a nightmare right now....

But hey - maybe I'm wrong....
Who said anything about homelessness? Begging is a desperation move whether you have a roof over your head or not. I wouldn't even assume the pressure was related to rent. Maybe his wife is pregnant. Maybe the car or mortgage payment is due. Maybe his wife requires special medical care.

There are a shocking number of people who are one paycheck away from being on the streets. I find it easy to believe that this created a perfect storm for some of them and that they're suffering to the point of homelessness with no magic involved.
My former roommate got kicked out in January after turning in his 2 week notice (landlords were his employers). As long as I've known him he hasn't had phone service... just uses his iPhone 6S and mooches WiFi to communicate by Facebook Messenger. He has no personal transportation in a city without public transportation. He was just a minimum-wage dish-washer who spent all his spare money on Nintendo Switch games.

It seems he was finally ready to better himself and turned in his notice when his prospective employer told him he was a shoe-in. Of course, they told him that because he said he had reliable transportation... for a field-service job that was on-call (repairing arcade machines). Definitely not the kind of job you'd want to Uber around for, and Uber doesn't even work on WiFi unless you have cellular service. If he needed it, my brother had offered him the use of his car while he was in Thailand for the month of January... so this guy took the plunge and resolved to buy someone's beat-up Chrysler by the end of the month with the check from the new higher-paying job.

Needless to say, his finances were very precarious, so when his former employer withheld money from his last check to cover utilities that he had never been liable for in the past, he wasn't able to pay his half of the rent at the place he was moving to. Because his next check had to catch him up on rent he couldn't get the car. Next, I find out he didn't even get that check (or that job) and he's now working as a dishwasher at a place right next to the one he just left! It's a town square with non-chain hipster places all around.

But it gets worse. In February his new roommate moved back to Florida because it was his mom's property and she suddenly wanted the house back to rent to her own tenant. I guess that explains the Florida plates I saw on his roommate's car. So my former roommate was left looking for another place to live... now with no transportation, no phone, and no money for rent. Only way he could ever afford to stay with me is because we were splitting the rent four ways, so there's no way he'd be able to fight and stay at the new place and pay all the rent himself.

I can't offer him a couch because he's literally not allowed here per the landlords. Only thing I could offer was a ride every now and then, but he couldn't even ask for one most of the time since, again, no phone or Internet. From the times I did give him a ride it seems most of his shifts were ~6 hours, so he couldn't have been getting many hours per week. Since I heard about some local restaurants on the square firing everyone a week ago I've been wondering what the heck he could do if the same thing happened to him... and then it did.

6918da428d8f22967c256da8a7349a82.jpg


Of course, everyone else on Facebook reads that and assumes he's staying at Ashley Park (outdoor mall/shopping center) because he's suddenly homeless but he's not kicked out yet. He's there because the loser has no car, no phone, no home internet (or computer), and no water, so it's the only place he can even get an Internet connection for his Switch or WiFi-only iPhone. That's what he means by "other complications." Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that his water has been cut off for over a week. His roommate was behind on the bill before he ran off to Florida. Ashley Park is also a 25 minute drive from the place he'll have to be moved out of in the next couple weeks.

Point is, I saw that backpack and I didn't even think it could be him until after I posted this. This dude had it MADE when he was living here back in January... walking distance to work, rent so cheap even he could handle it, other roommates who handled most utilities, free access to a huge gaming library with thousands of retro games (right up his alley), movies, and streaming services... no one even asking him to help with chores or yardwork. A couple weeks ago he walked over four hours to get to work at his minimum wage job that he doesn't even have anymore, so I can just see him getting dropped off at Ashley Park with that backpack and then clumsily forgetting it when someone offered help.

He really did lose his job and need help. My hours were drastically cut at the start of the week so I'm in no shape to help right now. Again, I can't even offer him a couch or a shower since the landlord's forbid him from the property (they are super-vindictive... did it to the last tenants too). He can't drive stick so he can't even make use of my car that I had no real use for since Tuesday (out of work sick). Dude's a lost cause.

Yes, a lot of this is his fault for not having savings, a phone, transportation, etc before burning his bridges with the landlords, and I've been complaining about what a loser he is ever since... but no one saw this coming when he started trying to turn things around back in December. He thought he'd be making quadruple what he was making and have a car and everything by now but instead he's worse off than he or I ever could have imagined at the time.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126

It isn't just the formulations.
Seriously? That's one case and the person was only vaping 6 months. The people who discovered it were even surprised by it because it wasn't the typical vaping issue they were familiar with, and that's not even enough to conclusively say what caused it. I assume EVALI is the new name for vaping-acquired popcorn lung (due to bad formulation)?

Anyway, they found what they found in the liquid and made an assumption that some would even say is unlikely given that her's is the only case. It's FAR more likely that it was a contaminated or bad vape liquid which is not indicative of the danger vaping generally poses. This is exactly the kind of assumption I was calling out when I challenged the assumption of complications with COVID-19.

Anyway, if it was something that threatened short-term vape users in general we'd know by now. That isn't to say that there aren't going to be long-term issues like cigarettes causing lung cancer, but by cherry-picking a unique case like that you are actually proving my case:
Normal vaping isn't known to cause chronic health issues and is generally expected to be FAR safer than smoking so there is no reason (yet) to assume otherwise.

Again, I don't vape or smoke and I don't advocate for either but I think it's obvious that having the majority of smokers switch to vapes would probably be a good thing. Extrapolating from that, anti-vape hysteria is probably a bad thing.
 
Last edited:
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
146
Who said anything about homelessness? Begging is a desperation move whether you have a roof over your head or not. I wouldn't even assume the pressure was related to rent. Maybe his wife is pregnant. Maybe the car or mortgage payment is due. Maybe his wife requires special medical care.


My former roommate got kicked out in January after turning in his 2 week notice (landlords were his employers). As long as I've known him he hasn't had phone service... just uses his iPhone 6S and mooches WiFi to communicate by Facebook Messenger. He has no personal transportation in a city without public transportation. He was just a minimum-wage dish-washer who spent all his spare money on Nintendo Switch games.

It seems he was finally ready to move on and turned in his notice when his prospective employer told him he was a shoe-in. Of course, they told him that because he said he had reliable transportation... for a field-service job that was on-call (repairing arcade machines). Definitely not the kind of job you'd want to Uber around for, and Uber doesn't even work on WiFi unless you have cellular service. If he needed it, my brother had offered him the use of his car while he was in Thailand for the month of January... so this guy took the plunge and resolved to buy someone's beat-up Chrysler by the end of the month with the check from the new higher-paying job.

Needless to say, his finances were very precarious, so when his former employer withheld money from his last check to cover utilities that he had never been liable for in the past, he wasn't able to pay his half of the rent at the place he was moving to. Because his next check had to catch him up on rent he couldn't get the car. Next, I find out he didn't even get that check (or that job) and he's now working as a dishwasher at a place right next to the one he just left! It's a town square with non-chain hipster places all around.

But it gets worse. In February his new roommate moved back to Florida because it was his mom's property and she suddenly wanted the house back to rent to her own tenant. I guess that explains the Florida plates I saw on his roommate's car. So my former roommate was left looking for another place to live... now with no transportation, no phone, and no money for rent. Only way he could ever afford to stay with me is because we were splitting the rent four ways, so there's no way he'd be able to fight and stay at the new place and pay all the rent himself.

I can't offer him a couch because he's literally not allowed here per the landlords. Only thing I could offer was a ride every now and then, but he couldn't even ask for one most of the time since, again, no phone or Internet. From the times I did give him a ride it seems most of his shifts were ~6 hours, so he couldn't have been getting many hours per week. Since I heard about some local restaurants on the square firing everyone a week ago I've been wondering what the heck he could do if the same thing happened to him... and then it did.

6918da428d8f22967c256da8a7349a82.jpg


Of course, everyone else on Facebook reads that and assumes he's staying at Ashley Park (outdoor mall/shopping center) because he's suddenly homeless but he's not kicked out yet. He's there because the loser has no car, no phone, no home internet (or computer), and no water, so it's the only place he can even get an Internet connection for his Switch or WiFi-only iPhone. That's what he means by "other complications." Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that his water has been cut off for over a week. His roommate was behind on the bill before he ran off to Florida. Ashley Park is also a 25 minute drive from the place he'll have to be moved out of in the next couple weeks.

Point is, I saw that backpack and I didn't even think it could be him until after I posted this. This dude had it MADE when he was living here back in January... walking distance to work, rent so cheap even he could handle it, other roommates who handled most utilities, free access to a huge gaming library with thousands of retro games (right up his alley), movies, and streaming services... no one even asking him to help with chores or yardwork. A couple weeks ago he walked over four hours to get to work at his minimum wage job that he doesn't even have anymore, so I can just see him getting dropped off at Ashley Park with that backpack and then clumsily forgetting it when someone offered help.

He really did lose his job and need help. My hours were drastically cut at the start of the week so I'm in no shape to help right now. Again, I can't even offer him a couch or a shower since the landlord's forbid him from the property (they are super-vindictive... did it to the last tenants too). He can't drive stick so he can't even make use of my car that I had no real use for since Tuesday (out of work sick). Dude's a lost cause.

Yes, a lot of this is his fault for not having savings, a phone, transportation, etc before burning his bridges with the landlords, and I've been complaining about what a loser he is ever since... but no one saw this coming when he started trying to turn things around back in December. He thought he'd be making quadruple what he was making and have a car and everything by now but instead he's worse off than he or I ever could have imagined at the time.
Why did he quit his last job in the first place without confirming his next one?
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
Why did he quit his last job in the first place without confirming his next one?
He thought it was confirmed... or at least that's what he tells everyone. Maybe they expected him to have a car and a phone and found out he still didn't. I do recall at least one interview that he missed because I wasn't available to give him a ride. He considered Uber "reliable transportation" when he answered that question only to find out later that it doesn't work without cellular service (he tried to call one with WiFi but the app doesn't allow it).

Good video for some food for thought


Watched it premier and thought it was odd he didn't talk about the mistakes from China or the WHO. Pretty much only ragged on western government responses. OMB
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
23,233
13,324
136
Seriously? That's one case and the person was only vaping 6 months.


Again, I don't vape or smoke and I don't advocate for either but I think it's obvious that having the majority of smokers switch to vapes would probably be a good thing. Extrapolating from that, anti-vape hysteria is probably a bad thing.

In general I agree. And we know there is an associated increase in risk factor for smokers who contract Covid-19. What we do not know is if the less-serious-but-still-present risks associated with vaping contribute to the severity of Covid-19 infections. Based on the way Covid-19 kills, it's rational to consider the possibility that any habit that damages the lungs or otherwise reduces lung capacity may increase severity. More data is required.
 
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Dec 10, 2005
29,705
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Why would either of you assume that? The damage from smoking is not from the nicotine, and a lot of vapes don't even have that. There have been issues that require regulation (bad formulas=popcorn lung), sure, but it's mostly hysteria and theatrics.

Not a vaper in case anyone thinks I'm just defending my vices. Just thinking critically.
I'd bet good money that vaping will cause lung inflammation. Will it be identical or worse than cigarettes? Probably not. Will it be worse than not doing any vaping for your lungs? Probably. And that lung inflammation is not going to be good if you come down with a severe respiratory infection.

Regardless, I have no particular insight about the young people reportedly being hospitalized, and what sort of medical history or other comorbidities they may have.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126



In general I agree. And we know there is an associated increase in risk factor for smokers who contract Covid-19. What we do not know is if the less-serious-but-still-present risks associated with vaping contribute to the severity of Covid-19 infections. Based on the way Covid-19 kills, it's rational to consider the possibility that any habit that damages the lungs or otherwise reduces lung capacity may increase severity. More data is required.

Yeah, but "raises the possibility that e-cigarettes are not harmless" is not exactly damning.

Again: No reason to think normal vaping is a habit that damages the lungs anywhere near the way smoke does. It could be statistically irrelevant.

This does not include vaping bad formulas. The variety of vaping liquids and the lack of regulation probably does mean many vape users will eventually hurt themselves if some safety regulations are not established, but these dangers are likely not inherent to vaping. As the article notes, they found metals in some of the liquids even before they touched the coils. If all of the coils were dangerous enough to cause this in vape users like the one in the first article in as little as 6 months then there would obviously be lot more cases. It stands to reason that there is more to it... like some vape coils are faulty or made with more dangerous materials than others. It's the Wild West, but I'm not expecting a significant number of vaping-related COVID-19 complications.

...perhaps a significant number of vaping-related infections, since these people are inhaling through their mouths with something that could be potentially contaminated by the virus. That would go for anything you carry around and habitually put in your mouth... like someone with a nail-biting habit.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
23,233
13,324
136
Yeah, but "raises the possibility that e-cigarettes are not harmless" is not exactly damning.

So you think it is not even worth the investigation? And the metal contamination from heating coils is only one angle. We don't know how mild (read: lower severity than the 49-year-old dog walker) exposure to toxic metals in e-cig vapor affects cell permeability or otherwise alters the ability of Covid-19 to infect lung tissue. Does it act as an immunosuppressant? Do the metals actually harm Covid-19 viruses to the point that the user is LESS susceptible to infection? We already know zinc can interfere with Covid-19 in higher concentrations.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
simply untrue, all of it. you're an incurious, irresponsible, ill-informed whackadoo.

shouldn't you instead be making posts asking advice on how to murder your girlfriend? that's what you're known for around here, anyway.
WTF is your problem? Mad cause I'm more fit than you? Do you think I enjoyed going to the gym everday? Or, before that, running every other day in any kind of weather? It took strong will and perseverance. Over time that will turned into a condition, where it became second nature. That's when you feel different/icky/uncomfortable when you don't do it, like not taking a bath. The rush you get when you're finished is second to none. Unfortunately, so is the pain (which is why I needed a day off when it came to running). A good feel. Don't hate because you're too lazy to exercise on a timely schedule. Or if you're overweight and can't understand how some of us achieve a level of fitness that you could only dream of. There's no easy way to it but to just do it constantly. Some people are just more determined than others.

For someone like me with an exercise regiment like that, this virus is nothing. My immune system probably didn't notice it. As for those articles about young people being hospitalized by this Chinese virus, we'd need more information as to their health before making an informed opinion. You can't just assumed they'd beat it just because they're young just like you can't just assume it'll kill every old person. The last competent governor of california, jerry brown, used to run 10 miles every morning well into his 70s. There is no doubt in my mind that he'd have a higher chance of surviving the Chinese virus than you.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
I'd bet good money that vaping will cause lung inflammation. Will it be identical or worse than cigarettes? Probably not. Will it be worse than not doing any vaping for your lungs? Probably. And that lung inflammation is not going to be good if you come down with a severe respiratory infection.

Regardless, I have no particular insight about the young people reportedly being hospitalized, and what sort of medical history or other comorbidities they may have.
Yeah, and people are dying from their unclean NetiPots harboring brain-eating amoebas before they poured salt water into their sinuses. Doesn't mean all NetiPot use carries that risk and doesn't mean NetiPot users are going to have COVID-19 complications.


If lung inflammation from vaping were widespread then the news wouldn't be so recent (late 2019) with such cautionary wording ("may lead to some"). I'll wait and see if it causes complications with COVID-19 but there is no reason to assume it's likely.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
So you think it is not even worth the investigation? And the metal contamination from heating coils is only one angle. We don't know how mild (read: lower severity than the 49-year-old dog walker) exposure to toxic metals in e-cig vapor affects cell permeability or otherwise alters the ability of Covid-19 to infect lung tissue. Does it act as an immunosuppressant? Do the metals actually harm Covid-19 viruses to the point that the user is LESS susceptible to infection? We already know zinc can interfere with Covid-19 in higher concentrations.
No. It's worth investigating. I merely said it doesn't justify the assumption that vaping will lead to significant complications with COVID-19. It sounds like the kind of anti-vape bandwagoning that has some smokers actually thinking it's MORE dangerous than smoking.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Maybe. They certainly say for a lot of those infected it's "mild". Though forgive me if I don't attach any significance whatosever to your slightly-self-praising self-diagnosis (I'm betting it's a cold - you can get more than one of them).

I'm also inclined to reject your mildly-fascistic "I'm fine, lock up those old or sick folks" attitude.

And on the other hand there are stories like this

So instead of locking up the old, weak and infirm for their own sake, you prefer everyone be locked up like in China or Italy? Does that make sense to you? You must also be one of those who advocate that everyone be given equal time for questioning before boarding a plane instead of focusing on the usual suspects. What we need at a time like this is some common sense, not overreacting. The virus is culling the herd. It's nature doing its thing.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,082
136
So instead of locking up the old, weak and infirm for their own sake, you prefer everyone be locked up like in China or Italy? Does that make sense to you? You must also be one of those who advocate that everyone be given equal time for questioning before boarding a plane instead of focusing on the usual suspects. What we need at a time like this is some common sense, not overreacting. The virus is culling the herd. It's nature doing its thing.

thats brutal but you arent wrong.
we were always susceptible to a horrible disease taking out a percentage of the population. too many people in close quarters, lack of foresight with hospitals and medical research, and of course the obvious: incompetent leaders.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,428
7,665
136
we were always susceptible to a horrible disease taking out a percentage of the population. too many people in close quarters, lack of foresight with hospitals and medical research, and of course the obvious: incompetent leaders.

Yeah, the current situation is not so good:


We sold our safety net for profits. We should have raised the price of offshoring to impossible levels a long time ago to keep manufacturing in-country. We should have stockpiled supplies as a country all along the way. We'll get through this, a little worse for the wear, but my guess is that we won't learn & it will be back to business as usual in a year or two. I'll definitely be increasing the size of my home inventory, for sure. Probably not to prepper levels, but I don't want to be stuck high & dry the next time the next global or local issue (insert war/pandemic/natural disaster/etc.) comes around.