NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,285
2,790
126
Seems this virus might actually be worse than we realized. Even when you recover your lungs remain damaged and you can lose 20-30% capacity. This is going to be bad for people that may already have breathing issues as it will add on top of that.


Fast forward to 1:19. Unlike pneumonia which only attacks one section of a lung, this infection attacks both lungs and shuts down breathing because the lungs are filled with fluid. Some who get this will suffer from lung damage or permanent shutdown, requiring a ventilator.

 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
41,347
10,471
136
Our local banks and CU's are very much either closing all branches completely (no drive through) or all lobbies. Customers are only allowed to use drive through or ATM or Internet/Apps for any banking need.
I left the house for the first time in 6 days today ... on my bicycle to my local bank. I was alarmed to see the front entrances barred shut as if it was 2AM. I knew that banks were supposed to stay open in spite of the closure of inessential businesses, so I approached the building and saw a notice that you had to go around the back. There I found the door locked, but a person came and let me in. The place is kept under lock and key.

My business there was to exchange some stuff in my safe deposit box and get some cash. I was the only customer. One customer came in as I was about to leave and she became the only customer. Not that they wouldn't let in others, it's just that the traffic is that thin now. It never was a busy bank but I've never seen it like this.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,416
7,657
136
"US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is encouraging live-streaming funerals"

What kind of dystopian future is this :oops:
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
41,347
10,471
136
I actually walked out. I was gettin gas and wanted to run in before I saw the amount of people in the store.
I should pay attention more I guess.
Dude, my car is gonna stay in my driveway for probably several months. I don't expect to leave the property. The gas tank is about 3/4 full. There it will remain. I don't expect to walk in any stores. A neighbor says they will shop for me, leave a bag on the porch. I'll pay them with Paypal.

I have plenty to do at home, there is no lack. Books, DVDs, Blu-rays galore. I have a subscription online for New York Times. I can't remember when I've done more than scratch the surface of that. I have projects here galore. I think I'm temperamentally suited to sheltering in place, actually. I've been ready for this for 50 years!
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
41,347
10,471
136
I wish they could make a place where you could go GET the virus. Get a checkup to confirm you are in good health and levels are up and then get the damn thing. Beat it (now immune). Get back out there and make the world go round.
Gotta wait for a while after you have it before you aren't contagious before you get out there. I think 14 days would be safe after you aren't symptomatic. Do your research.
 

brainhulk

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2007
9,376
454
126
Dude, my car is gonna stay in my driveway for probably several months. I don't expect to leave the property. The gas tank is about 3/4 full. There it will remain. I don't expect to walk in any stores. A neighbor says they will shop for me, leave a bag on the porch. I'll pay them with Paypal.

I have plenty to do at home, there is no lack. Books, DVDs, Blu-rays galore. I have a subscription online for New York Times. I can't remember when I've done more than scratch the surface of that. I have projects here galore. I think I'm temperamentally suited to sheltering in place, actually. I've been ready for this for 50 years!

Hooked up to a battery tender i hope
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,285
2,790
126
China just reported no new cases for the first time since all this started



It is a 60 Minutes visit to Chinese market. It gets really interesting around 14:00. At Chinese wildlife markets you can buy any animal imaginable - and it have it killed and prepared for consumption. This was the same source for the SARS lung infection in 2002. COVD is SARS on steroids.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
Throat still sore. Sinuses still inflamed/irritated. I keep measuring 99.6°F so not technically a fever yet. It's the same thermometer I bought to check my high-risk mother a few weeks ago and it measured her a couple degrees low at 96.6°F a couple weeks ago. If it's off by 2 degrees then I could actually be 101.6°F.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
41,347
10,471
136
Duh. Trump said we have massive numbers of ventilators. That would be a joke if the situation weren't so serious. Actually there are way less than 200,000 in the country and it's projected that we'll need almost a million at the height of the epidemic. They should corral plants to start producing them 24/7 right now. Medtronic (one of the ~6 companies that make ventilators) is 24/7 already, but without additional plants going online, a lot of people will die because they don't have access to a ventilator. All this from news stories I've watched the last week or so.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126

It is a 60 Minutes visit to Chinese market. It gets really interesting around 14:00. At Chinese wildlife markets you can buy any animal imaginable - and it have it killed and prepared for consumption. This was the same source for the SARS lung infection in 2002. COVD is SARS on steroids. Infected bats, snakes and this weird looking creature are ready for human consumption at these markets:

The Pengalan...
View attachment 18341

And you think this is over?
Uh, I'm pretty sure the wild animal market 60 Minutes Australia visited were in Bangkok Thailand. It was not as food-oriented as the Chinese wet markets and seemed more for poachers and exptinc animal trading of all kinds. Most of the wildcats were litter-trained to be sold as pets.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
71,286
14,074
126
www.anyf.ca
Fast forward to 1:19. Unlike pneumonia which only attacks one section of a lung, this infection attacks both lungs and shuts down breathing because the lungs are filled with fluid. Some who get this will suffer from lung damage or permanent shutdown, requiring a ventilator.


Yeah it's freaking scary. I was in the camp of thinking this was just a super bad flu that has a chance of killing you, but this is much much worse. Even if you survive it, you still have permanent damage to your lungs. This is life changing. This is probably as bad as lyme disease in the sense that it is life altering even if you survive.

I really hope that a successful vaccine is created for this. I know there are a lot of people working on one so here's hoping they are successful.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,285
2,790
126
Uh, I'm pretty sure the wild animal market 60 Minutes Australia visited were in Bangkok Thailand. It was not as food-oriented as the Chinese wet markets and seemed more for poachers and exptinc animal trading of all kinds. Most of the wildcats were litter-trained to be sold as pets.

It is all over Asia, lots of them are underground run by organized crime syndicates. One point made in the video is species sold for food or pets are kept near each other in hot, confined and dirty spaces, under stress and susceptable to spreading disease among them. You have animals from Africa, Asia and South America and other parts of the world that would normally never come into contact with each other.

Infection is easy to jump to humans once one of these are sold to someone.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,236
136
For the love of fucking god, way to try a weak gotchtya.

I changed my mind way back in February when it became obvious it wouldn't be contained at all. I then made posts long before anyone else showing the exponential growth this would likely take.

Up until then there was no reason it wouldn't mimic the SARS and MERS outbreaks. Once it was obvious it wouldn't, I actually MADE A POST saying I was wrong in February in P&N.

You see, unlike Trump and his Cult, I can readily change my mind in the face of new information. And I did. While Trump was denying this and contradicting the CDC and WHO I did not. As soon as the CDC and WHO showed it was out in the wild and not containable I stopped saying it would be contained.

Here is my exact quote:

"Back when this was thought to be containable I made some statements that are obviously no longer true if the CDC and WHO prediction this will break containment is true.

My view has changed entirely based on new evidence from the CDC and WHO."

Where the fuck were you?

I sleep at night very well, thank you. Because I know I can change my mind based on new evidence and have no moral or ethical issues with my previous opinions being discovered to be misconceptions SO LONG as I can quickly and readily change that misconception in the face of conflicting evidence.

I do and I did.

Go pseudo-moralize somewhere else and defend Trump to someone who cares.
Discouraging concern until it becomes a huge problem...that is the problem.

You seriously thought it was "contained" when you made those statements? Really?
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
Discouraging concern until it becomes a huge problem...that is the problem.

You seriously thought it was "contained" when you made those statements? Really?

yeah he thought it was nothing compared to the flu, until he didnt think that anymore.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
71,286
14,074
126
www.anyf.ca
Discouraging concern until it becomes a huge problem...that is the problem.

You seriously thought it was "contained" when you made those statements? Really?

I don't think most people in the early days realized it would get as bad as it did. Not lot of info was known on it at the time such as the 14 day incubation period. Seems silly to attack someone for statements made a month ago when things were different. Not everyone is a biologist like you, or knows everything about everything.

I do think more early precautions should have been made though like stopping world travel. Should have been done much sooner. I guess most people figured this would be like SARS. SARS was bad, but not as bad as this one.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,547
20,261
146
STILL buying your head in the sand?

You know why they ask us not to buy masks? It even says right there in the article: They need them for healthcare workers. There's a reason healthcare workers need them. There's a reason China mandated them.

We are short because smart guys like CNN, print media, and someone in this thread told Americans "Stop. Buying. Masks." BEFORE people here were buying them all up. You misidentified who was panic buying and stood by as most of our reserves got shipped out of the country back in January. If Americans had bought them most would still be here and people with extras could spare them for healthcare workers. Granted, China needed them more than we did back then, and I said as much, which is why I only bought one for myself and one for my mother.

Your own link proves you wrong yet you deny it and call it another "failed gotcha?!" LOL! That's rich.

The official announcements regarding masks are carefully-worded to say that "surgical masks" are ineffective. When they mention N95 or better they invariably say that they are needed for healthcare workers... BECAUSE OF THE SHORTAGE.

The reason they are short is a direct consequence of people ignoring the real cause of them selling out from Amazon and medical supply places in January. I told you about the sites instructing Chinese on how to order from Amazon and US medical suppliers and you said I sounded like Alex Jones then ran off even though I was more than happy to provide links/screenshots. Now you can't bring yourself to admit the truth: We are in this mask situation because of people like you. You should have been speaking truth to power and calling out that CNN article. Instead you became a good little messenger for the shamelessly misinformed media.

It's not surprising to see you revert to your primal state when cornered by calling me a Trumper. For the record and to expose your feeble retort for what it was (shameless attempt to discredit me with politics): I voted against Trump. I've been consistently anti-Trump since he announced his candidacy and my post history reflects that. You aren't even a little ashamed to stoop that low when you are losing an argument? You just CAN'T STAND being wrong. :rolleyes:

...and LOL that your opinion "CHANGED WITH THE FACTS." The facts didn't change: You were just wrong, lying to yourself and others about "consensus." We told you from the start that it was moronic to base your argument on a CNN article based on WHO numbers from known-bad CCP numbers that directly contradict those on the ground, but you chose not to listen to the people who knew what was going on and just kept linking to CNN and proclaiming "consensus!" No matter how many times we told you and others spouting that "flu is worse" BS that it's demonstrably wrong, you just dug your heels in.

You act like you admitted you were wrong but all I could find was you blaming the government for making the same assumptions you did. Actually, the USA announced quarantines and travel restrictions from China *AGAINST* WHO recommendations on Jan 31, the last day you were still posting in this thread before I drug you back into it today. Though you've only been active in threads critical of our government's late response, it sounds like you were the one who raised alarm bells too late. In your mind we were damned if we didn't listen to CNN/WHO then and damned if we did now.

You're the hypocrite saying our government didn't act fast enough even though we acted while you and the WHO were still telling everyone NOT to. What a disgusting lack of self-awareness.

NO IT WAS NOT CONTAINED. Delusion.

NO IT DID NOT LOOK THAT WAY. More delusion.

Don't hide behind that shield. You were told not to listen to the WHO and you were told why, and the CDC wasn't even allowed in. You knew better but you chose to mock the people telling you how we know better than that. We aren't just repeating what we heard on CNN. That was your mistake.


Absolutely not. Any medical expert can tell you that the total number of flu deaths has no bearing on how deadly a new disease will be just because it hasn't killed as many yet. If a plague that wipes out all of humanity started right now and had only just claimed it's first victim you could just as easily say "Yeah, but it's only killed one person. Flu is worse. You don't wait until it has killed as many as the flu to get concerned.

I mean... DUH. Imagine if the military waited until we were already half-wiped out to return fire just because losses weren't as bad YET. "Yeah, but they've only killed a quarter of our troops. That other conflict was way worse." As bone-headed as it was I called you out much more politely then. You could have gracefully acknowledged it and improved yourself but you chose to dig your heels in. Pathetic really.


No. You are the only one claiming there was ever an expert consensus back then. Real "experts" bemoaned the lack of verifiable information and warned it was likely far worse. They never agreed. You had a lot of WHO people saying "if" based on China's official numbers that we already knew were lies and a lot of news article putting spins on that. You were warned. You chose to ignore the warnings and find articles with LAUGHABLE conclusions. Newsflash: CNN's conclusions about whether or not the flu is worse is not synonymous with "medical expert" conclusions just because they threw up some verifiable numbers. That piece was pseudo-intellectualism at it's finest.


No. You didn't post about it in any coronavirus thread for over three weeks. After you mentioned this admission I looked at the first several posts across two other threads and found nothing but you blaming the government... without even a shred of self-awareness for making that same mistake yourself back in Jan.

Amazing.

Edit: Found it in the "how many will die" thread. Feb 28 was not "well in advance" of anything. Much of what we needed was long-gone.

My last post in this thread was days before this CDC release STILL SAYING the risk to Americas was low.

The horse you're attempting to beat here is long dead. I never said anything after this CDC article.

And the masks? Are you serious? To this day islt is still NOT RECOMMENDED for civilians to use masks for protection. It's actually counter productive.

CDC. January 30th


“Given what we’ve seen in China and other countries with the novel coronavirus, CDC experts have expected some person-to-person spread in the US,” said CDC Director Robert R. Redfield, M.D. “We understand that this may be concerning, but based on what we know now, we still believe the immediate risk to the American public is low.”
 
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randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
My last post in this thread was days before this CDC release STILL SAYING the risk to Americas was low.

The horse you're attempting to beat here is long dead. I never said anything after this CDC article.

And the masks? Are you serious? To this day islt is still NOT RECOMMENDED for civilians to use masks for protection. It's actually counter productive.

CDC. January 30th


“Given what we’ve seen in China and other countries with the novel coronavirus, CDC experts have expected some person-to-person spread in the US,” said CDC Director Robert R. Redfield, M.D. “We understand that this may be concerning, but based on what we know now, we still believe the immediate risk to the American public is low.”

By your own admission the CDC was wrong before and so why the hell are you still basing your opinion on theirs? Based on your track record, if you do not change your ways, you will be wrong again.
 

killster1

Banned
Mar 15, 2007
6,205
475
126
To this day, the CDC and WHO advise people to NOT BUY MASKS. I will STILL shame people who try to buy masks.


Another failed gotcha.

You ain't got shit. I wasn't wrong then until the facts changed, and then my opinion CHANGED WITH THE FACTS.

What are you trying to achieve here Trumper?

I clearly stated I was wrong back in February WHEN THE WHO AND CDC changed their minds and updated my information.
wow amused is such a bone head. what facts do we have? NOt wear a mask? such stupid advice, people used to be shot for not wearing masks back in 1918, and if everyone wore masks then we would worry 95% less about droplets if everyones cough and sneeze was contained. you sound so stupid this was never contained NEVER. USA sure wont contain it with out china tactics and we sure as hell wont do that.
put on a mask stock up because this is just starting.

Seems this virus might actually be worse than we realized. Even when you recover your lungs remain damaged and you can lose 20-30% capacity. This is going to be bad for people that may already have breathing issues as it will add on top of that.


OK So who has fully recovered from this virus? if you have lost 20% capacity it sounds like you are not recovered but only not testing positive anymore.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
71,286
14,074
126
www.anyf.ca
Oh man I can just picture it now, remote controlled forklifts with the casket to bring it to the front of the church and then eventually to the burial and the whole thing is done remotely with everyone watching the stream.

Twitch funeral streamers will be a new trend. Or maybe Discord is better as you can have different people stream the eulogy and stuff lol.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
Not everyone is a biologist like you, or knows everything about everything.
Ichinisan is not a biologist. He works on retro gaming stuff.

My last post in this thread was days before this CDC release STILL SAYING the risk to Americas was low.

The horse you're attempting to beat here is long dead. I never said anything after this CDC article.

And the masks? Are you serious? To this day islt is still NOT RECOMMENDED for civilians to use masks for protection. It's actually counter productive.

CDC. January 30th


“Given what we’ve seen in China and other countries with the novel coronavirus, CDC experts have expected some person-to-person spread in the US,” said CDC Director Robert R. Redfield, M.D. “We understand that this may be concerning, but based on what we know now, we still believe the immediate risk to the American public is low.”

You do speak English, right? You do know the difference between "immediate" risk and potential/coming risk, right? I have to assume "no" since you insisted on comparing early SARS2 deaths to flu deaths from a period before the new virus even existed. Of course it hadn't killed more when it was just getting started. Derp. Every deadly plague has to start somewhere, right? Do we want to make it a habit of waiting until more people have died before we can react with appropriately?

Nah, don't panic, guys. This thing has only killed 54,000 and counting fast. Flu killed 55,000 so far this year. *YAWN* Wake me up when it's killed more than the flu.

Absolutely ridiculous that I should have to explain it to you when we already told you back in January: it wasn't the "immediate" risks that people were "wringing their hands" over... it was what we saw that was likely coming. You chose to mock people for your own short-sightedness. You even insulted others for failing to see the "nuance" in your comparison to flu deaths from a period where the virus in question didn't even exist. Funny. I think we had a better read on the "nuance" in those numbers than you, Chief.

Again: N95+ masks are "still" not recommended particularly because the bulk of our reserves left the country back when you and CNN were first telling people not to buy them. Your ilk caused/worsened that national shortage. It isn't your defense that masks aren't recommended: It's your FAULT masks need to be rationed to healthcare workers. I don't know how you don't understand this and keep going back to that shameful consequence of your (...and CNN's, and others') bad advice from January as if it's some kind of defense. We already hung it around your neck.

It's "counter productive" for the general population to buy and wear them because there are no longer enough in the country to go around and we need to reserve nearly all that remain for healthcare workers. Pure and simple.

OK So who has fully recovered from this virus? if you have lost 20% capacity it sounds like you are not recovered but only not testing positive anymore.
Well, a lot of people never even notice they got it, or barely notice, so I'm sure they didn't lose any lung function.
 
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