NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
34,325
6,118
126
Considering how infectious the variants are I doubt anything short of mucosal immunity is really going to do the job anymore to fully prevent infections. Maybe in a year or two they'll have a nasal vaccine that works for that. In the meantime I'd just like the smallest chance of severe illness and death that I can obtain from the existing platform.
One week ago I saw an amazing story on TV news. Researchers at UC Berkeley say they have developed a nasal covid vaccine that will:

1. Protect against all current strains
2. Protect against all future strains
3. Does not require refrigeration, meaning it can be distributed once produced in quantity all over the world
4. Does not target the spike protein, but instead targets the DNA at the nucleus of the virus (thus will protect against all strains present and future)
5. Will not just protect you from having a bad case, it will protect you from getting infected

They are applying for FDA approval to begin the testing necessary. They believe that deployment will be approximately in October, 2023.

Looking this up, there are multiple online hits. Interestingly one of them is about a story about Stanford doing similar research around Nov. 2021.

The story also made mention of proposed inhalers that will lessen the severity of covid in people who are infected.
 
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thestrangebrew1

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2011
3,233
268
126
One week ago I saw an amazing story on TV news. Researchers at UC Berkeley say they have developed a nasal covid vaccine that will:

1. Protect against all current strains
2. Protect against all future strains
3. Does not require refrigeration, meaning it can be distributed once produced in quantity all over the world
4. Does not target the spike protein, but instead targets the DNA at the nucleus of the virus (thus will protect against all strains present and future)
5. Will not just protect you from having a bad case, it will protect you from getting infected

They are applying for FDA approval to begin the testing necessary. They believe that deployment will be approximately in October, 2023.

Looking this up, there are multiple online hits. Interestingly one of them is about a story about Stanford doing similar research around Nov. 2021.

The story also made mention of proposed inhalers that will lessen the severity of covid in people who are infected.
This would be awesome. My work currently has an outbreak and I've got some symptoms, but I'm 99% sure it's allergies because I've been sneezing and have itchy, watery eyes and the farmers are shaking the almond trees right now. Still feel pretty crappy but both at home tests I've taken so far have been negative.
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
8,956
6,327
136
Protecting against ALL future strains is a bold claim...
It is, but not completely unrealistic. The current vaccines were narrowly-targeted solutions developed in a rush (at least one was a modification of an existing shot) because we needed something to avoid grinding society to a complete halt. Scientists have known for a while that they could create more resilient vaccines targeting shared elements of COVID-19 (such as this nanoparticle design), but they required years of extra work.

It'd still be optimistic to think we could eradicate COVID-19, but there is a chance we could neuter its threat so effectively that it becomes a non-issue in most countries. Not the "let's pretend it doesn't exist" pseudo-normal we have now; the pre-pandemic normal where you never really have to worry that you'll get sick just by going to a concert.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,688
3,678
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To be fair I'm only "selectively" masking-up myself at this point. In fact the only time I've been bothering is at the supermarket where there are a lot of people in close-quarters.
I'm all over the state with work & I've definitely seen a HUGE uptick in masking over the last few weeks.
 
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Hans Gruber

Golden Member
Dec 23, 2006
1,534
641
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I had the most recent version of covid several weeks ago. The vaccine did not protect me from the wretches of covid. I am switching from Pfizer to the Moderna vaccine next time.
 
Dec 10, 2005
22,017
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I had the most recent version of covid several weeks ago. The vaccine did not protect me from the wretches of covid. I am switching from Pfizer to the Moderna vaccine next time.
Did you end up in the hospital or dead? If no, then the vaccine you received probably was fine. None of the vaccines developed have claimed or were proven to stop any infection. They were tested to prevent hospitalizations and death from severe covid.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
34,325
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Protecting against ALL future strains is a bold claim...
These guys are pros. I don't think they would make that claim if they didn't have good scientific evidence, i.e. they are working with a paradigm that indicates this is so. They believe in their paradigm. Can scientists be wrong, need to change their paradigms? Sure. But look... Einstein and other scientists predicted the atom bomb, they build one and it worked just like they said because their paradigm was right. They didn't have to demonstrate experimentally, they predicted it mathematically and they were spot on.
 
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Hans Gruber

Golden Member
Dec 23, 2006
1,534
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I had the most recent version of covid several weeks ago. The vaccine did not protect me from the wretches of covid. I am switching from Pfizer to the Moderna vaccine next time.
This was a particularly nasty covid virus with a bad flu bug tied into it. Dr Fauci got it 2x. Uncle Joe got it 2x and now his wife has it. I have heard of people saying they were deathly ill and thought they were going to die. No respiratory problems, just a really bad flu bug that most didn't think was covid.

Meanwhile the anti-vax crowd is taunting those who are vaccinated. The problem with really bad flu bugs, they can kill in larger numbers than covid. So if people were to die from this variant, they would blame it on covid.

Whether it's BE-4 or BE-5, that is for science to determine. There have been people who have tested positive for an entire month straight. Some have covid symptoms but negative rapid test results. They have to wait 3 or 4 days to get a positive test result. For most people, the joy of testing positive for covid only lasts 3 or 4 days.
 
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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
54,871
7,626
126
We're down from 16.6% to 12.4% positivity, and case counts are trending back downwards.
I had the most recent version of covid several weeks ago. The vaccine did not protect me from the wretches of covid. I am switching from Pfizer to the Moderna vaccine next time.
I had Spikevax 3x and still got knocked on my ass for a couple days, a couple more days of feeling like crap, and about a full week before I was recovered.
But I didn't have to go to the hospital.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
26,111
7,409
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We're down from 16.6% to 12.4% positivity, and case counts are trending back downwards.

I had Spikevax 3x and still got knocked on my ass for a couple days, a couple more days of feeling like crap, and about a full week before I was recovered.
But I didn't have to go to the hospital.

I had to Google "Spikevax 3" ROTFL ..... it's just Moderna's dramatic "cool sci-fi" sounding marketing name for the Moderna Covid-19 booster/vaccine!

:p

Spikevax and Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine (FDA)
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,474
1,811
126
These guys are pros. I don't think they would make that claim if they didn't have good scientific evidence, i.e. they are working with a paradigm that indicates this is so. They believe in their paradigm. Can scientists be wrong, need to change their paradigms? Sure. But look... Einstein and other scientists predicted the atom bomb, they build one and it worked just like they said because their paradigm was right. They didn't have to demonstrate experimentally, they predicted it mathematically and they were spot on.
It's called hubris and humans fall into that trap when it presents itself.

Once upon time there was optimism in controlling the weather...yeah still waiting.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
34,325
6,118
126
It's called hubris and humans fall into that trap when it presents itself.

Once upon time there was optimism in controlling the weather...yeah still waiting.
I have NEVER dreamed that they can control the weather. Also, have always figured flying cars was a dummy's fantasy. Now hubris is not ubiquitous, I don't care what you say or think:

"Clever people may learn as much as they wish of the results of science--still one will always notice in their conversation, and especially in their hypotheses, that they lack the scientific spirit; they do not have that instinctive mistrust of the aberrations of thought which through long training are deeply rooted in the soul of every scientific person. They are content to find any hypothesis at all concerning some matter; then they are all fire and flame for it and think that is enough. To have an opinion means for them to fanaticize for it and thenceforth to press it to their hearts as a conviction. If something is unexplained, they grow hot over the first notion that comes into their heads and looks like an explanation--which results progressively in the worst consequences, especially in the sphere of politics. For that reason everyone should now study at least one science from the bottom up: then he will know what method means and how important is the utmost circumspection." -- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,972
5,743
136
I have NEVER dreamed that they can control the weather. Also, have always figured flying cars was a dummy's fantasy. Now hubris is not ubiquitous, I don't care what you say or think:

"Clever people may learn as much as they wish of the results of science--still one will always notice in their conversation, and especially in their hypotheses, that they lack the scientific spirit; they do not have that instinctive mistrust of the aberrations of thought which through long training are deeply rooted in the soul of every scientific person. They are content to find any hypothesis at all concerning some matter; then they are all fire and flame for it and think that is enough. To have an opinion means for them to fanaticize for it and thenceforth to press it to their hearts as a conviction. If something is unexplained, they grow hot over the first notion that comes into their heads and looks like an explanation--which results progressively in the worst consequences, especially in the sphere of politics. For that reason everyone should now study at least one science from the bottom up: then he will know what method means and how important is the utmost circumspection." -- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

Nietzsche never used one word where twenty would do. Can't stand that guy. In particular I always find I dislike anyone influenced by him.

Besides, that has no bearing on whether this "protection from all future strains" claim is legit. It _is_ an ambitious claim. I presume it means the vaccine will target part of the virus that is far more stable than the regions the existing vaccines target. But is any part of the virus 100% fully stable, completely safe from any future mutation? Surely it's only a question of degree, of probabilities?
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
34,325
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Nietzsche never used one word where twenty would do. Can't stand that guy. In particular I always find I dislike anyone influenced by him.

Besides, that has no bearing on whether this "protection from all future strains" claim is legit. It _is_ an ambitious claim. I presume it means the vaccine will target part of the virus that is far more stable than the regions the existing vaccines target. But is any part of the virus 100% fully stable, completely safe from any future mutation? Surely it's only a question of degree, of probabilities?
Honestly I think it's futile for us to speculate about this. We shall see what happens with it. It's rather out of our hands. Of course, you are free to shun the nasal vaccines when they arrive. I rather doubt I will be in that camp.

As far as Nietzsche goes, there are thousands of intellectuals who haven't enjoyed the enduring influence that he has had. Now, it should be noted that he deteriorated. In his hay day he was one sharp cookie.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,972
5,743
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Honestly I think it's futile for us to speculate about this. We shall see what happens with it. It's rather out of our hands. Of course, you are free to shun the nasal vaccines when they arrive. I rather doubt I will be in that camp.
Can't disagree. Will see what happens if and when they get it done. Never said I'd "shun" anything, btw, just that I'm not getting my hopes up at this point (regarding its universal efficacy).

As far as Nietzsche goes, there are thousands of intellectuals who haven't enjoyed the enduring influence that he has had. Now, it should be noted that he deteriorated. In his hay day he was one sharp cookie.
I just know that every "intellectual" figure I've ever found myself disliking turned out to be influenced by him. And there seems a fairly obvious line from him to the Nazis.

I have tried reading him but couldn't make head-nor-tail of it. It seems like inspirational poetry for the privileged to me.
 
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Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,474
1,811
126
I have NEVER dreamed that they can control the weather. Also, have always figured flying cars was a dummy's fantasy. Now hubris is not ubiquitous, I don't care what you say or think:

"Clever people may learn as much as they wish of the results of science--still one will always notice in their conversation, and especially in their hypotheses, that they lack the scientific spirit; they do not have that instinctive mistrust of the aberrations of thought which through long training are deeply rooted in the soul of every scientific person. They are content to find any hypothesis at all concerning some matter; then they are all fire and flame for it and think that is enough. To have an opinion means for them to fanaticize for it and thenceforth to press it to their hearts as a conviction. If something is unexplained, they grow hot over the first notion that comes into their heads and looks like an explanation--which results progressively in the worst consequences, especially in the sphere of politics. For that reason everyone should now study at least one science from the bottom up: then he will know what method means and how important is the utmost circumspection." -- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
They could have dealt with the flu in such a way by now but instead they guess every season. Yet somehow in one year...COVID will be firewalled from humanity like smallpox.

Science is predicated on the act of observation. The ramblings of a philosopher is irrelevant to its function and reeks of guruism over a pragmatic, amoral endeavor of pursuing and obtaining knowledge.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
34,325
6,118
126
I just know that every "intellectual" figure I've ever found myself disliking turned out to be influenced by him. And there seems a fairly obvious line from him to the Nazis.

I have tried reading him but couldn't make head-nor-tail of it. It seems like inspirational poetry for the privileged to me.
I got my intro to Friedrich N many years ago with The Portable Nietzsche, which is still on my bookshelf. Of course there is always difficulty in understanding writings of people who wrote in a different language. Translations never totally work.

Concerning your statement above "there seems a fairly obvious line from him to the Nazis" I quote this:

“No other German writer of comparable stature has been a more extreme critic of German nationalism than Nietzsche.”
― Walter Kaufmann,
On the Genealogy of Morals / Ecce Homo
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,972
5,743
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I got my intro to Friedrich N many years ago with The Portable Nietzsche, which is still on my bookshelf. Of course there is always difficulty in understanding writings of people who wrote in a different language. Translations never totally work.

Concerning your statement above "there seems a fairly obvious line from him to the Nazis" I quote this:

“No other German writer of comparable stature has been a more extreme critic of German nationalism than Nietzsche.”
― Walter Kaufmann, On the Genealogy of Morals / Ecce Homo
Not the thread for it, but I don't think that's the whole story - that's the oft-heard defence from his fans. The Nazis themselves felt otherwise (as does Richard Spencer).

I mean if you write about a 'magnificent blond beast avidly prowling round for spoil and victory' and talk about ubermench and untermench - should you not be a little more aware of where that talk might lead?

I guess his sister (who was an anti-Semite, I believe) did a lot to make his legacy appear more Nazi-like than maybe it was, but I still think he mostly wrote poetic nonsense, that seems to function as a set of 'motivational poster slogans' for over-privileged types (almost always upper-class white people) as a way of justifying their feelings of superiority.

I don't have any great expertise in philosophy, as I say, I just find repeatedly he's cited as an influence by people I don't like.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
34,325
6,118
126
I don't have any great expertise in philosophy, as I say, I just find repeatedly he's cited as an influence by people I don't like.
I don't extoll Nietzsche generally, I have posted (a few times) that one quotation about his distrust of people who haven't a clue about the true nature of science. That's really as far as it goes. I am by no means a devotee in any degree. Honestly I have no opinion of him. I do like that quotation. I do think you should take Walter Kaufmann's quotation there very seriously. He's quite the expert on FN. The fact that Nazi's sought justification for themselves in FN's work is no proof that N would have approved of them. I rather imagine he would have detested them in the extreme.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
26,111
7,409
136

Apple trying again to force people back in the office. Again, they are still too early.

"Too early" may well prove to me "never" for MANY people.... these big companies are severely under-estimating how many Americans are fed up with the "live to work" status-quo BS they love to push.
 

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