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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
3,348
1,575
96
All the people I know living paycheck to paycheck seem to love spending every dollar and not saving for a rainy day. Hes not the only one, for most being broke is a choice.
Sounds like my ex wifes family in a nutshell, we moved in shortly to help split the bills when work slowed down as it was weather dependent. Eventually her cousins husband got another job but by then it seemed like they almost got dependent on us. Even spent more then usual on the stupidest of things like renting to own shit that would be hauled away the second they couldn't afford it and the same with a truck. I had many fights with my ex to leave the situation but she idk didn't want to "as they needed us". Eventually i left the situation after dealing with it 2 years. Few months back i heard there was 12 people crashing in a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom. Yeah EVEN still they all struggled.

NEVER EVER make the fucking stupid mistake EVER of moving in with any family related to a spouse, i agreed to help out temporarily and they obviously went hog wild. I got into a big fight with the cousins husband recently via text and he was like "your a piece of shit and glad your marriage was over" and i told the fuck learn to save a dollar and i am glad too i tell everyone! :D Guy got offered a $100k job all expenses and house paid for,he has decided to only earn $24k or so.
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,916
1,362
126
I know that I'm going to get a lot of hate for this comment, but the one thing that I've noticed during this pandemic is that so many people rely way too much on the US government. I don't care whose in office. It could be Trump, Obama, Clinton, the fairy godmother, Godzilla, etc. No one is coming to your defense. The government isn't going to save you. It's about taking personal responsibility. For example, you should have at the bare minimum a 6 month emergency fund. That fund will cover 6 months of bills. If you are living paycheck to paycheck you need to dig deep and ask why are you in such dire straits financially. Then make changes. You shouldn't buy a car for $40k when you only make $40k a year. Same with having a mortage. People love spending money that they don't have, and when bad financial times hit they are stuck with a pile of bills that they can't pay. It just causes undue stress. I saw this with my parents and vowed that I wouldn't do the same. Live below your means. Let's get back to the basics.

This pandemic is a real wake up call for many.
Amen, especially the bold parts.. I am still driving my current vehicle even it is several years old. Same for my other expenses such as cell phone (less than $100 new and $35/month and is a few years old). I live with a room mate to save on housing expense and such. No useless gadgets or rarely used subscriptions . In other word, I look at all of my expenses (bar none) and ask myself if I really need it or what I can do to cut or lower the cost if it is really critical (housing (room mate), food (cook at home more), transportation (keep current vehicle and use discount on gas and maint.) and so on. Every. Single. Expense.

Too many people in the US and developed countries have the YOLO mentality and "spend spend spend...and more spend....spend it until you drop and spend more when you recover from the spending shock......" They need to take a good look at themselves in the mirror.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying all people in financial trouble are heavy spenders and I do have spending binge here and there. What I am saying is everyone need to take a look at ALL of their expenses and ask if that particular expense is critical for your survival and whether you can cut at least 10% or more from those. You "could" but "should" you?
 
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H T C

Senior member
Nov 7, 2018
332
189
86
This post is 1 day old, @ TPU: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/maps-for-tracking-covid-19.264697/post-4238317

I'd say we're doing OK. Czech Republic is the one doing well. Saw a pretty interesting story on the news yesterday comparing the evolution of the virus in Portugal and the Czech Republic since we both have a population of around 10M and we both had the first cases at about the same time with slightly different approaches and results. Quick summary:

Portugal | Czech Republic
First infected: March 2nd | March 1st
100 infected: March 13th | March 12th
Closed schools: March 16th | March 11th
Declared state of emergency: March 18th | March 12th
Restricted borders: March 16th | March 16th

Czech Republic also made the use of mask mandatory on March 18th (it was the focus point of the piece) and prohibited any social gathering of over 2 people that aren't family on March 23rd.

As of yesterday (Friday, April 3rd) Portugal had over twice the infected (9886 vs 4091) and almost five as many dead (246 vs 53).

Taking harder measures and quicker, along with mandatory use of masks seems to have helped quite a bit over there.

Over here, the recommendation to wear a mask has been increased from just health professionals and infected to people that may come in contact with infected (kinda vague) and essential jobs workers.
Portugal is headed for 3 TIMES as many cases as Czech Republic, likely tomorrow.

Why have i posted this, you may ask? Because it illustrates quite nicely how reacting "strong and fast" is better than delaying the reaction.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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This post is 1 day old, @ TPU: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/maps-for-tracking-covid-19.264697/post-4238317



Portugal is headed for 3 TIMES as many cases as Czech Republic, likely tomorrow.

Why have i posted this, you may ask? Because it illustrates quite nicely how reacting "strong and fast" is better than delaying the reaction.
It's always based on government and how incompetent they are. Here in the US for example - we are ALWAYS reactive.

Notice how we have things like people dying from drug overdoses.... massive increases in homeless population....

What is the answer from progressives? We need MORE reactive measures! We need more homeless shelters! We need to tax the rich more to fix the problem and give them apartments so they can be useful to society!

It doesn't matter if it's an extra tax on big gulp sodas... extra tax on cigarettes/vaping... the point is that nothing helps the systemic problem of how to prevent the problem from occurring in the first place.

You need to fearlessly act on the problem, and not re-act after a problem has developed into horrendous results.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,428
2,735
126
@Kaido ... How do you create those [URL unfurl= links? Been trying to figure it out, haven't yet.
Does it automatically. I hate it lol. I've tried turning it off by using Inset Link instead, but some websites just do the unfurl thing automatically (like Reddit).
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,428
2,735
126
It's always based on government and how incompetent they are. Here in the US for example - we are ALWAYS reactive.
I don't know if "incompetent" (in terms of preparation) is the right word, as much as "market-driven". We're a largely capitalistic society here in America...where's the immediate financial incentive in heavily stockpiling & preparing ahead of time? Long-term, it makes sense financially, but our structure is low-earning workers & executive compensation packages with near-term quarterly results. Morally, it makes sense, but we operate off the almighty dollar (at least, most businesses work that way), not what the right thing to do is, unfortunately.

I've had the opportunity to do IT work for upwards of three dozen companies over the years. They are all vastly different in terms of their approach to IT: some spend no money & are constantly cutting themselves off from productivity gains. Most are reactive & buy what they need to get by, which is fine for now, but not for the future. A select few are proactive & stay ahead of the curve, and enjoy the benefits of being highly prepared.

Not many do that.

The ones who do are almost invariably more successful & less stressed-out than their competitors. Likewise, our country has the opportunity to recognize the sub-par workflow we're engaged in right now in response to the COVID-19 crisis & change our future approach (as we'll inevitably get more pandemics, wars, natural disasters, etc.). Will we? Based on history, no, lol. I wish we had a non-reactive foundational system in place, but we don't, and that's an awfully difficult thing to change culturally.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
21,202
3,037
126
the point is that nothing helps the systemic problem of how to prevent the problem from occurring in the first place.
i don't think anyone has a good answer for how to prevent the problem from occurring, at least in the US

we used to have state-run psychiatric hospitals to house people with mental issues but those went away in the 60s - that would probably deal with between 1/4 and 1/3 of homeless cases because that is the estimated rate of mental illness for homeless people

but of note - the highest federal income tax rate in the US in 1960 was %91 (though average was probably somewhere around 25%), and the corporate tax rate was around %50
 
Dec 10, 2005
21,001
2,472
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I don't know if "incompetent" (in terms of preparation) is the right word, as much as "market-driven". We're a largely capitalistic society here in America...where's the immediate financial incentive in heavily stockpiling & preparing ahead of time? Long-term, it makes sense financially, but our structure is low-earning workers & executive compensation packages with near-term quarterly results. Morally, it makes sense, but we operate off the almighty dollar (at least, most businesses work that way), not what the right thing to do is, unfortunately.
The focus on quarterly results is something that came about more over the last 30 years than something inherent to the system. Thanks to the influence of the ultra-rich, changes were made to the tax code incentivized short-term thinking and focusing on stock price, which perpetuates the short-term mindset of many companies.
i don't think anyone has a good answer for how to prevent the problem from occurring, at least in the US

we used to have state-run psychiatric hospitals to house people with mental issues but those went away in the 60s - that would probably deal with between 1/4 and 1/3 of homeless cases because that is the estimated rate of mental illness for homeless people
The way to prevent problems is to spend money on prevention and elect politicians that are willing to listen to experts. We could move a few billion per year from our trillion dollar + defense budget towards building stockpiles and maintaining a pandemic response infrastructure. We maintain governmental infrastructure in many other areas - why not for something like this?

As for the state run hospitals: many of those were horrible places to be putting people and they were rightfully shut down. We should be spending more on social services to help these people, but the general public doesn't seem to think that it's important.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
21,202
3,037
126
As for the state run hospitals: many of those were horrible places to be putting people and they were rightfully shut down. We should be spending more on social services to help these people, but the general public doesn't seem to think that it's important.
knowing the general public, they would probably prefer a horrible state-run hospital to people living on the street

i've seen multiple comments on FB and reddit and even WSJ in the past month where people say or imply that they hope this virus "cleans up" the homeless population from US cities

it's pretty freaky stuff
 
Dec 10, 2005
21,001
2,472
126
knowing the general public, they would probably prefer a horrible state-run hospital to people living on the street
For sure, that's why those services are so underfunded. It's really a carryover of the FYGM mentality that is pervasive in the US

i've seen multiple comments on FB and reddit and even WSJ in the past month where people say or imply that they hope this virus "cleans up" the homeless population from US cities

it's pretty freaky stuff
Honestly, those people are totally fucked in the head. They're basically wishing death on people. Beyond the insanity of wising death on other people, they never seem to grasp that a pandemic doesn't discriminate: it could easily wipe their vile selves off the face of the planet.
 
Nov 8, 2012
19,762
4,452
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i don't think anyone has a good answer for how to prevent the problem from occurring, at least in the US

we used to have state-run psychiatric hospitals to house people with mental issues but those went away in the 60s - that would probably deal with between 1/4 and 1/3 of homeless cases because that is the estimated rate of mental illness for homeless people

but of note - the highest federal income tax rate in the US in 1960 was %91 (though average was probably somewhere around 25%), and the corporate tax rate was around %50
And as cited by TaxFoundation (non-partisan tax research), no one paid the 91%. Right now we can make a tax rate of 99.99% for incomes over $2 Billion. That doesn't mean anyone paid it. Who would pay it? If you have a choice of giving someone 91 cents for every dollar you earn (plus sales tax on purchases, plus applicable state income taxes) would you have a business drive to earn more? Absolutely not.


Proponents of this view often point to the 1950s, when the top federal income tax rate was 91 percent for most of the decade.[1] However, despite these high marginal rates, the top 1 percent of taxpayers in the 1950s only paid about 42 percent of their income in taxes. As a result, the tax burden on high-income households today is only slightly lower than what these households faced in the 1950s.

Corporations have drastically changed over the years and how we tax them. Modern countries have realized that there are just enormous amounts of tax strategies that corporations can always find legal loopholes through. This is why modern countries have eased the burden of taxation on corporations, and have instead ramped up taxation on consumers. Why? Obvious reasons, consumers are much less probable to avoid them - and they are often harder to avoid because the collector is the company selling the product instead of the government themselves.

Corporate tax rates across MANY modern countries. Notice a trend? This isn't an 'Merica LOVES EVIL CORPORATIONS! thing.
1586121004569.png


On the other hand, VAT (or consumer taxes in general) have ramped up across most countries.
1586121176799.png


The countries that progressives love to idolize (Nordic countries - Sweden / Denmark, etc.) have a HIGH income tax for everyone. Not for the rich, not for the middle class - but for everyone, regardless of income.

The average income tax in Norway for 2019 was 46.41%
Personal Income Tax Rate in Norway averaged 46.41 percent from 1995 until 2020, reaching an all time high of 55.30 percent in 2003 and a record low of 38.20 percent in 2019.
What was the average personal income tax in the US? 14.2%. ... and 70% of that is paid by the top 10%.

1586121375345.png



My main point is this - people keep saying "The rich need to pay more" here ... the problem? The countries they keep pointing to as the answer HEAVILY tax the poor, middle, and upper classes.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
17,280
6,280
136
the one thing that I've noticed during this pandemic is that so many people rely way too much on the US government.
Careful, this thread's meant to be apolitical. Nevertheless, that ship sailed years ago, and it's probably never coming back. The Great Society (or more-notably, the opposition to it) was the last chance personal responsibility had as a matter of public policy. That fight is over.

We look to the government for assistance and help because we pay taxes, which supposedly fund the agencies responsible for providing help in times like these.
Surprise! The government is bankrupt, and has been for years.

because it was a hirer's market always.
Lately it's been the opposite. It took historically-high labor shortages to slooooowly force wages upward in this country. And for those paying said wages, it's been like nails dragged across the chalkboard. SCRREEEEEEEEE. It's fun to point fingers at exactly whom you believe to be responsible for shoddy wage growth vs. inflation over the previous four decades or so before this period of recent wage growth, but believe you me, those same people are silently cheering inside for the wave of unemployment to come! At least wage growth will probably stall out.

Too many people in the US and developed countries have the YOLO mentality and "spend spend spend...and more spend....spend it until you drop and spend more when you recover from the spending shock......" They need to take a good look at themselves in the mirror.
Charles Schulz tried telling people about that with the Peanuts Christmans special. And that was in the 1960s? Rampant consumerism has been a major vehicle for economic progress for awhile.

@s0me0nesmind1

Great! What's that got to do with Covid-19 though?
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
21,202
3,037
126
My main point is this - people keep saying "The rich need to pay more" here ... the problem? The countries they keep pointing to as the answer HEAVILY tax the poor, middle, and upper classes.
true. while there's quite a bit more disparity between low and high incomes in the US than those countries, but there is no denying that they pay a lot more in taxes on average.

honestly if stuff stays the way it is in the US, it'll be better for me. i make good money, have really good benefits, and live quite cheaply.

i'd be open to paying more taxes if it would really improve things here for lower-class folks, but given the state of things, that'll probably never happen anyway.

so i'll just continue to live cheap, save %50 of my income, and retire early.

(provided i don't die from corona, which is the main topic of this thread... so back to our regularly scheduled program)
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
26,611
560
126
it should be, but it probably won't stick
I dont think so. This experience will be a defining moment for the first half of the 2020s for many people on this planet. Hopefully its enough to make a difference because COVID is expected to re-emerge during flu season and will be a threat until there is a vaccine.

I've always been conscious of germs, wash my hands often, kept hand sanitizer in my car at home and on my office desk.

Lots of younger people I work with did not even have tissue at their desk! As a 30 year office veteran I know these things are essential - pen, sticky notes, stapler, staple puller, letter opener and a trusty box of tissues. Yet people under 30 try to get by with as little as possible ... and tissues are the last thing they think they need. They just sneeze all over the place or grab towels from the restroom. Crazy. Not anymore however.

The world will be germ-aware or germophobic until at least 2025.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
16,052
5,964
136
..
The countries that progressives love to idolize (Nordic countries - Sweden / Denmark, etc.) have a HIGH income tax for everyone. Not for the rich, not for the middle class - but for everyone, regardless of income.

The average income tax in Norway for 2019 was 46.41%
...
That is simply not true. There is multiple tax brackets.
First tax bracket is : 0% .. on average probably 1-2 months of pay.
Second is like 10-15%
Third tier is an additional 10-15%
add to that "state tax" (above firste tax bracket) : ~20%

So no .. You dont get stomped in Scandinavia if you happen to be of low income. Quite the opposite, you will actually qualify for programs that help out with the rent etc.

But who the f cares about percentages. I could pay 99.99% income tax and not sweat it. What matters is my purchasing power with the remaining 0.01% right? I pay the high margin and I still live like a king man. Tier one healthcare too baby. Unlimited. Healthcare. Education. Free. Unlimited.
But yea, free in freedom has a price. I dont mind paying, dont mind paying for my neighbor either. Its all good.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
16,052
5,964
136
OP : Numbers looking good for the US today? NY is down? With like, a decent amount?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
30,203
3,574
126
Does it automatically. I hate it lol. I've tried turning it off by using Inset Link instead, but some websites just do the unfurl thing automatically (like Reddit).
I don't follow you @Kaido. How is it done "automatically?" I can't get it to happen. What exact steps do you go through to insert those unfurl links in your posts here???
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
30,203
3,574
126
I don't know if "incompetent" (in terms of preparation) is the right word, as much as "market-driven". We're a largely capitalistic society here in America...where's the immediate financial incentive in heavily stockpiling & preparing ahead of time? Long-term, it makes sense financially, but our structure is low-earning workers & executive compensation packages with near-term quarterly results. Morally, it makes sense, but we operate off the almighty dollar (at least, most businesses work that way), not what the right thing to do is, unfortunately.

I've had the opportunity to do IT work for upwards of three dozen companies over the years. They are all vastly different in terms of their approach to IT: some spend no money & are constantly cutting themselves off from productivity gains. Most are reactive & buy what they need to get by, which is fine for now, but not for the future. A select few are proactive & stay ahead of the curve, and enjoy the benefits of being highly prepared.

Not many do that.

The ones who do are almost invariably more successful & less stressed-out than their competitors. Likewise, our country has the opportunity to recognize the sub-par workflow we're engaged in right now in response to the COVID-19 crisis & change our future approach (as we'll inevitably get more pandemics, wars, natural disasters, etc.). Will we? Based on history, no, lol. I wish we had a non-reactive foundational system in place, but we don't, and that's an awfully difficult thing to change culturally.
I honestly think that Bernie would do a lot to make those changes, but of course, we apparently blew that chance. The seeds are here. This pandemic has the potential to catalyze the whole process. There's no telling how deep this will get ATM.
The focus on quarterly results is something that came about more over the last 30 years than something inherent to the system. Thanks to the influence of the ultra-rich, changes were made to the tax code incentivized short-term thinking and focusing on stock price, which perpetuates the short-term mindset of many companies.
If we refused to bail out those companies when their foolishness gets them into trouble when unforeseen difficulties arise we would foster a more sustainable economy going forward.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
30,203
3,574
126
He absolutely positively ruined the daily show from a very watchable show into a cringe-worthy show of zero laughs.

The show ratings hasn't recovered and will never recover until they actually put someone up that has any sort of real character.


The closest you can get anymore is Jon Oliver
He spoiled your fun? Zero laughs? Oh you poor boy. It's not his responsibility to make you laugh, nor mine. I like his style. If you like Jon Oliver, think he's better, link some, OK?

Dig, he asked Bill Gates a lot of great questions, the right questions, again and again. That's rarely done in interviews. Plus it was virtual, which is tougher than in person. Anyway, like I said, he did his homework. Now link me some Jon Oliver. If you can't, he's out of the picture.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,916
1,362
126
First we have foolish spring break students hang out closely on the beach, then foolish preachers with hundreds of worshipers in enclosed spaces , and now this fool and others like him -


SHM.

In other news, would you put your life in made in china medical products?

 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
26,611
560
126
First we have foolish spring break students hang out closely on the beach, then foolish preachers with hundreds of worshipers in enclosed spaces , and now this fool and others like him -


SHM.

In other news, would you put your life in made in china medical products?

I was awakened in the middle of the night to hear voices of 10-15 teens laughing out simultaneously, all saying the same thing, acting like they were at a sporting event....right in the middle of the street. They mostly looked like they were 13-18, and couple were throwing punches at each other while the others shouted out loud and filmed.

In less than 10 minutes you could hear loud sirens approaching. It sounded like a firetruck or ambulance. It was three police SUVS coming in every direction. I was watching and saw the look on their faces. Some wanted to run but there was no where to go. They were sat down, lectured and dispersed quickly.

People are going to start revolting against this lock down, especially younger people. Keeping order is not going to be easy.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,428
2,735
126
I don't follow you @Kaido. How is it done "automatically?" I can't get it to happen. What exact steps do you go through to insert those unfurl links in your posts here???
I paste in the link, hit post, happens automatically. Not to all links, but to most links. I'd prefer that it didn't, actually - I like having a link just be a link, with no preview.
 
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