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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Nov 8, 2012
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If we bail the airlines out, I hope we force conditions on them and eliminate some of their BS (such as shrinking seats). Now may be a good time for that passengers bill of rights....
Yup. Pretty simple shit.

Seats Required Width
Seats Required Length (inbetween seats)
Bathroom Required Size
Defined reasonable dollar cost to change your flight if desired (e.g. $25 instead of the current $200+)
Define what can/can't be charged a fee. For instance, I'm of the mindset that every airline should allow 2 checked bags for free under a certain weight.


The problem is that seats are already fucking small as shit, so unless you want to mandate that every airline go back and change ALL their planes (won't happen) you're shit out of luck.

All of this is wishful thinking though, governments will bend over and say "Yes sir, can I please have it deeper?" as they bail them out with no thought to check them for all their fuckups.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
53,924
7,048
126
Ichinisan is not a biologist. He works on retro gaming stuff.



You do speak English, right? You do know the difference between "immediate" risk and potential/coming risk, right? I have to assume "no" since you insisted on comparing early SARS2 deaths to flu deaths from a period before the new virus even existed. Of course it hadn't killed more when it was just getting started. Derp. Every deadly plague has to start somewhere, right? Do we want to make it a habit of waiting until more people have died before we can react with appropriately?

Nah, don't panic, guys. This thing has only killed 54,000 and counting fast. Flu killed 55,000 so far this year. *YAWN* Wake me up when it's killed more than the flu.

Absolutely ridiculous that I should have to explain it to you when we already told you back in January: it wasn't the "immediate" risks that people were "wringing their hands" over... it was what we saw that was likely coming. You chose to mock people for your own short-sightedness. You even insulted others for failing to see the "nuance" in your comparison to flu deaths from a period where the virus in question didn't even exist. Funny. I think we had a better read on the "nuance" in those numbers than you, Chief.

Again: N95+ masks are "still" not recommended particularly because the bulk of our reserves left the country back when you and CNN were first telling people not to buy them. Your ilk caused/worsened that national shortage. It isn't your defense that masks aren't recommended: It's your FAULT masks need to be rationed to healthcare workers. I don't know how you don't understand this and keep going back to that shameful consequence of your (...and CNN's, and others') bad advice from January as if it's some kind of defense. We already hung it around your neck.

It's "counter productive" for the general population to buy and wear them because there are no longer enough in the country to go around and we need to reserve nearly all that remain for healthcare workers. Pure and simple.


Well, a lot of people never even notice they got it, or barely notice, so I'm sure they didn't lose any lung function.
I love how my recommendation for people to not run out and buy masks (a recommendation the CDC and WHO still makes as masks are useless for untrained people) created the shortage.

Seriously?

And no, the CDC and WHO plainly stated it was not an immediate danger and both predicted it would be contained.

When they changed their minds, I changed mine.

You? You've lost your damn mind.

You literally are saying my recommendation to NOT panic buy masks was bad and caused the shortage???

How.
In.
The.
Fuck.

Wow. No. There's a fool in this thread and it ain't me.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
78,923
11,848
126
is this rapid spread a testament to how lazy and stupid Americans are? People just dont know how to wash their hands properly or refuse to do it?
Or is it possible we've been lied to about how effective soap and hot water are, and keeping distant?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
53,924
7,048
126
wow amused is such a bone head. what facts do we have? NOt wear a mask? such stupid advice, people used to be shot for not wearing masks back in 1918, and if everyone wore masks then we would worry 95% less about droplets if everyones cough and sneeze was contained. you sound so stupid this was never contained NEVER. USA sure wont contain it with out china tactics and we sure as hell wont do that.
put on a mask stock up because this is just starting.



OK So who has fully recovered from this virus? if you have lost 20% capacity it sounds like you are not recovered but only not testing positive anymore.
Again. Every fucking medical expert from the CDC on down is telling Americans the use of masks is pointless and actually increases their chances of getting infected.

The only bone head here is you.

I've posted CDC statements from January stating the virus was not an immediate threat to the US.
I've posted articles from the CDC telling people NOT TO USE MASKS.

I sound stupid? I'm not the one constantly spouting advice contrary to expert opinion.

That would be you.

 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,556
2,819
126
Is anyones internet a little wonky? I'm getting slowdowns for a few seconds to a minute, and then it resumes normally.

I can only imagine the number of people online now.
A lot of my customers are having phone issues - "all circuits busy" on analog, VOIP, and cell phones due to the sheer number of people working remotely.

All I've done for the past week is setup VPN's. Non-stop.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,556
2,819
126
is this rapid spread a testament to how lazy and stupid Americans are? People just dont know how to wash their hands properly or refuse to do it?
Or is it possible we've been lied to about how effective soap and hot water are, and keeping distant?

The World Health Organization is considering “airborne precautions” for medical staff after a new study showed the coronavirus can survive in the air in some settings.

The virus is transmitted through droplets, or little bits of liquid, mostly through sneezing or coughing, Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, head of WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, told reporters during a virtual news conference on Monday. “When you do an aerosol-generating procedure like in a medical care facility, you have the possibility to what we call aerosolize these particles, which means they can stay in the air a little bit longer.”

World health officials say the respiratory disease spreads through human-to-human contact, droplets carried through sneezing and coughing as well as germs left on inanimate objects. The coronavirus can go airborne, staying suspended in the air depending on factors such as heat and humidity, they said.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,556
2,819
126
Interesting article on accountability:


TL;DR:

1. China experienced SARS nearly 20 years ago & didn't properly implement a nation-wide emergency procedure to deal with future outbreaks
2. Chinese experts warned that a future SARS-style outbreak beginning in China was highly likely from bats & that they needed to be prepared for that possibility
3. China didn't lock down Wuhan for 7 weeks, during which more than 5 million people left Wuhan, which resulted in the whole planet getting infected quickly
4. China censored & detailed doctors & whistleblowers throughout the beginning out of the outbreak to cover up the severity of the situation

I'm hoping that America learns from this & puts improved disaster recovery plans into place for the future. Fortunately, we haven't gotten hit as hard as Italy (yet), but we're already seeing the market tank, grocery store supplies disappear, and basically the whole economy slow down to a crawl because we're not clear on what to do or how to handle it. I suspect this will not be the last time we experience large-scale economic turmoil, whether it's due to a pandemic, war, natural disasters, or something else. I'm definitely re-assessing my own situation at home in terms of self-sufficiency regarding food, supplies, finances, mobility, etc. because I am not as prepared as I'd like to be & want to make sure that my family is covered in the event of a long-term emergency like we're experiencing now.

The evidence of China’s deliberate cover-up of the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan is a matter of public record. In suppressing information about the virus, doing little to contain it, and allowing it to spread unchecked in the crucial early days and weeks, the regime imperiled not only its own country and its own citizens but also the more than 100 nations now facing their own potentially devastating outbreaks. More perniciously, the Chinese government censored and detained those brave doctors and whistleblowers who attempted to sound the alarm and warn their fellow citizens when they understood the gravity of what was to come.

...

China has a history of mishandling outbreaks, including SARS in 2002 and 2003. But Chinese leaders’ negligence in December and January—for well over a month after the first outbreak in Wuhan—far surpasses those bungled responses. The end of last year was the time for authorities to act, and, as Nicholas D. Kristof of The New York Times has noted, “act decisively they did—not against the virus, but against whistle-blowers who were trying to call attention to the public health threat.”

This is what allowed the virus to spread across the globe. Because the Chinese Communist Party was pretending that there was little to be concerned about, Wuhan was a porous purveyor of the virus. The government only instituted a lockdown in Wuhan on January 23—seven weeks after the virus first appeared. As events in Italy, the United States, Spain, and France have shown, quite a lot can happen in a week, much less seven. By then, mayor Zhou Xianwang admitted that more than 5 million people had already left Wuhan.

In a 2019 article, Chinese experts warned it was “highly likely that future SARS- or MERS-like coronavirus outbreaks will originate from bats, and there is an increased probability that this will occur in China.” In a 2007 journal article, infectious-disease specialists published a study arguing that “the presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored.”
 
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Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
10,650
1,161
126
Here is a video by Buddhist monk Ajahn Brahm on facing difficult situations if anyone is feeling a little sad. Ajahn always puts me in a good mood.

He's kinda funny as well, and is like my personal therapist. :)

 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,101
2,385
126
So far, the only countries that have been sort of successful containing this virus required/requested people wear masks. Even homemade mask or Buff like neckwear to cover the mouth and nose is helpful IMO. So it's going to be interesting to see what happens in the US. This is my biggest concern with the US and biggest mistake we're making IMO. I think the infection is going to whole lot worse and last longer because the US population is not using any sort of masks. Of course we won't be able to prove it. The pictures I've seen of 1918 Spanish Flu shows people wearing masks. And I think the governments asked people to wear some sort of homemade masks during that era.

I cannot understand why people are so against using masks. Look at the pictures of China, South Korea, Singapore, and Hong Kong. Read between the lines. Masks are vital key to stopping the spread of this highly contagious virus. Just like people who said this virus was "it's just flu, bro" were all wrong, I think everyone who say mask is not important for the general public and not needed are all wrong. Terribly wrong. Of course we won't be able to prove it so they'll just say they were right once we defeat this virus.

If you have masks, please wear it. Do not listen to people like Amused. Do not listen to CDC. Wear your mask. Listen to governments of Asia. They have experience battling various viral diseases. Our government do not. This is their first rodeo. This is not the first rodeo for governments of Asia. There's no downside to wearing masks and it can potentially save your life.
 
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ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,101
2,385
126
Again. Every fucking medical expert from the CDC on down is telling Americans the use of masks is pointless and actually increases their chances of getting infected.

The only bone head here is you.

I've posted CDC statements from January stating the virus was not an immediate threat to the US.
I've posted articles from the CDC telling people NOT TO USE MASKS.

I sound stupid? I'm not the one constantly spouting advice contrary to expert opinion.

That would be you.

I think you're 100% wrong. Of course, we won't be able to prove it. But I trust South Korean government and what they say over our CDC and our inept government. This isn't South Korea's first rodeo. It's ours.
 

killster1

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
5,880
373
126
Again. Every fucking medical expert from the CDC on down is telling Americans the use of masks is pointless and actually increases their chances of getting infected.

The only bone head here is you.

I've posted CDC statements from January stating the virus was not an immediate threat to the US.
I've posted articles from the CDC telling people NOT TO USE MASKS.

I sound stupid? I'm not the one constantly spouting advice contrary to expert opinion.

That would be you.

yea you said the CDC said it wasnt a risk right thats where you got your info? but they you say they had given wrong information! MASKS WILL GET YOU INFECTED! lululul yea how is that, they say because you touch the mask after it has blocked the virus from being breathed in right? so then you wash your hands after you take off the mask or dont touch the front. problem solved, the reason they are giving WRONG information is already stated, because HOSPITALS NEED THE MASKS MORE. does that mean you dont need it? NO it means they dont care about you and care only about those working in direct contact with confirmed cases. well to bad there is very little to no testing done so you actually KNOW who is infected. if everyone wore masks then the droplets would be contained when people coughed and sneezed not only would it protect you but the person next to you would be double covered since they would have a mask too and the droplets would never leave your mask. sorry you are lacking common sense and just go by what ever you hear CDC saying. To bad you cant purchase some common sense. good luck in life being a sheep.
 
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IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,561
609
126
Sounds like someone's got a case of the entitlements.
Yeah, that’s me alright - wanting to live my life and not be held prisoner for potentially a year plus. I’m so entitled!

Sounds like someone (aka you) needs to return to reality. Get bent.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,664
4,699
146
Yeah, that’s me alright - wanting to live my life and not be held prisoner for potentially a year+ plus. I’m so entitled!

Get bent.
Make sure to lick some door handles while you're out, maybe you can kill a few people's parents while you're out living your life.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,561
609
126
Make sure to lick some door handles while you're out, maybe you can kill a few people's parents while you're out living your life.
So you seriously think people should isolate themselves for maybe 12+ months? What if a vaccine never happens or takes 3 years?
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,664
4,699
146
So you seriously think people should isolate themselves for maybe 12+ months? What if a vaccine never happens or takes 3 years?
Yes. Look, I get it, you think you're special and you think rules shouldn't apply to you because reasons, but you aren't, and they do. If it takes 3 years of isolation to make sure we don't have to ICU 20% of the US population and kill off 5%+ of people over 50, then we're fucking quarantining for 3 years, okay?

Take up a hobby, grow a victory garden, learn to knit. Figure out something to fill out your day that doesn't require you to breath on people to 'live your life'. Knuckle up buttercup.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
53,924
7,048
126
yea you said the CDC said it wasnt a risk right thats where you got your info? but they you say they had given wrong information! MASKS WILL GET YOU INFECTED! lululul yea how is that, they say because you touch the mask after it has blocked the virus from being breathed in right? so then you wash your hands after you take off the mask or dont touch the front. problem solved, the reason they are giving WRONG information is already stated, because HOSPITALS NEED THE MASKS MORE. does that mean you dont need it? NO it means they dont care about you and care only about those working in direct contact with confirmed cases. well to bad there is very little to no testing done so you actually KNOW who is infected. if everyone wore masks then the droplets would be contained when people coughed and sneezed not only would it protect you but the person next to you would be double covered since they would have a mask too and the droplets would never leave your mask. sorry you are lacking common sense and just go by what ever you hear CDC saying. To bad you cant purchase some common sense. good luck in life being a sheep.
Is English your first language?

Guess who I trust more. The CDC and every single medical expert PLUS my years of bio-hazard training in the Army, or you?

Go on, guess.

Here is a hint: In a medical environment medical professionals who do not want to infect you wear masks, gloves and maybe a gown. That's it. That is effective in ensuring they do not infect their patients.

Medical professionals who are protecting themselves from being infected wear bio-hazard suits or, at a minimum, masks, face masks and fully taped and sealed gowns and undergo a full decon procedure after exposure before de-gowning.

A mask alone does not offer effective bio-hazard protection to the wearer and the vast majority of people will not use it correctly, and even if they do, it's NOT a bio-hazard protection.

So yeah, keep calling all the experts "stupid."
 
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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
53,924
7,048
126
I think you're 100% wrong. Of course, we won't be able to prove it. But I trust South Korean government and what they say over our CDC and our inept government. This isn't South Korea's first rodeo. It's ours.
I'll repeat this for you:

Guess who I trust more. The CDC and every single medical expert PLUS my years of bio-hazard training in the Army, or you?

Go on, guess.

Here is a hint: In a medical environment medical professionals who do not want to infect you wear masks, gloves and maybe a gown. That's it. That is effective in ensuring they do not infect their patients.

Medical professionals who are protecting themselves from being infected wear bio-hazard suits or, at a minimum, masks, face masks and fully taped and sealed gowns and undergo a full decon procedure after exposure before de-gowning.

A mask alone does not offer effective bio-hazard protection to the wearer and the vast majority of people will not use it correctly, and even if they do, it's NOT a bio-hazard protection.

So yeah, keep calling all the experts "stupid."
 
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killster1

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
5,880
373
126
Going out for anything at this point is unsafe. For me it's a question of why. Hopefully this article will shed more light about eating prepared food during this pandemic:


Transmission of Covid-19 and influenza are close enough that the article can probably tell you what to expect in case someone infected (read: asymptomatic carrier) is preparing your food.

To reiterate, going anywhere at this point carries risks. Handling of payment media, opening/closing doors, and touching other surfaces may serve to transmit the disease to you (or from you). Buying and eating food under these circumstances isn't really going to make things much worse.



And I'm saying I didn't. I've worked in some low-level places, too, like Burger King and Domino's. These were not 'nice' restaurants. We mostly did our jobs well enough that we were not serving food that fell on the floor.



. . . that's revisionist history right there. China tried to cover up Covid-19 until it became evident that they couldn't. They basically did let it go wild.
it wasnt a low level burger joint, as far as dropping things on the floor it didn't happen often and not all the employees had the same practices, but its SUPER wild for you to say every place with bad handling techniques will be shut down, that is so naive and silly. everyone gloves up and is a saint when the inspector is around. (we served 70-100+$ plates of food usually pretty good handling but never perfect)
 

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