New Zen microarchitecture details

[AtenRa]

OT

 

[DrMrLordX]

Personally I see nothing confusing about this: they lied. As I may have said before on the VC&G forum, from now on AMD better back any claim they make with a live demo: zero credibility policy from me.

Awesome! 480 is horrible, send them all to me, thanks. Nobody else should want them. After all, I have no use for them . . . nope nope.

I'll also take all the Summit Ridge CPUs if you guys don't want them. They are also going to be awful, no doubt!

 

[KTE]

Let's be realistic. People in the rumor mill hyped it beyond all known logical standards.

And that's what they are doing with Zen right now..

Sent from HTC 10
(Opinions are own)

 

[Phynaz]

Skylake was also supposed to be revolutionary. I even fell for the hype and advised people to wait on purchases. Never again. Broadwell C outperforming it with a lower clock rate and power consumption was just too funny.

So because Intel over promised it's OK that AMD does?

That's really your argument?

 

[Phynaz]

Well, problem is, there are a lot of games that are not DX12

My Steam library has over 1,000 games in it. Not one is a DX12 game.

Many people are acting as if prior versions of DX just suddenly disappeared because DX12 came out.

 

[AtenRa]

My Steam library has over 1,000 games in it. Not one is a DX12 game.

Many people are acting as if prior versions of DX just suddenly disappeared because DX12 came out.

There is not a single post that implies DX-11 disappeared, but people are not acknowledging that DX-12 era is here, now. The next 6-12 months all major AAA titles coming are DX-12. You may not have any DX-12 games now but you may get in the coming months.



Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
Markfw900

 

[coercitiv]

Awesome! 480 is horrible, send them all to me, thanks. Nobody else should want them. After all, I have no use for them . . . nope nope.

Please note I said nothing about the product. My issue is with the claim, and how it had no relation with the product, the RX 480.

 

[Dresdenboy]

I'll cite and post further Radeon stuff in the other subforum.

FinFET/Zen related stuff might stay here.

So far I think, even Polaris isn't of much help here to do finer estimations of Zen's clock frequency prospects.

Of course, the next enqueued Radeon models might improve the picture, as lower enabled CU counts (470) or overall less CUs (Polaris 11) reduce the amount of power consuming blocks, which currently hide true V/F scaling behind power and temperature limits somewhat. The roofline model of performance estimation would be useful here.

BTW, being in the Zen thread: Fudo let another bit of information out of his full hat:
http://www.fudzilla.com/news/processors/41088-16-zen-core-opteron-is-snowy-owl
Now it's another socket for the dual die Opteron.

That's what I meant with cost driven volume die strategy: No more costly low volume dies (especially the big ones), but thanks to MCM/interposers they might build a lot of different chips from those dies. The volumes would even help with cherry picking special low power or higher frequency parts, which could be combined on the same package then. This should save them several million dollars of design, test, and mask set costs.

My Steam library has over 1,000 games in it. Not one is a DX12 game.

Many people are acting as if prior versions of DX just suddenly disappeared because DX12 came out.

They shouldn't. But you're right. With a sample size of 1 we now have a proof, that old Steam games won't disappear. BTW, how many % of them don't need a 2016 GPU to run smooth?

 

[Sweepr]

RX 480 has ~2x perf/watt vs R9 280X not 1.35.

RX 480 vs 280X = 92%
RX 480 vs 285 = ~82%

Not sure if serious. 280X is based on Tahiti, a 4.5+ years old die. Compared to Tonga, the GPU that it actually replaces, perf/watt is up by 1.47x, a far cry from 2.8x.

https://tpucdn.com/reviews/ASUS/R9_380X_Strix/images/perfwatt_1920_1080.png
https://tpucdn.com/reviews/ASUS/R9_380X_Strix/images/perfwatt_2560_1440.png

 

[Phynaz]

The next 6-12 months all major AAA titles coming are DX-12.

Steam top sellers - Number of DX12 titles = 0

Steam upcoming AAA titles that are DX12 = < 100%

Now let's get back on topic, shall we?

 

[AtenRa]

Steam top sellers - Number of DX12 titles = 0

Steam upcoming AAA titles that are DX12 = < 100%

Now let's get back on topic, shall we?

Total War Warhammer is DX-12 and currently on Steam top sellers,

Also,

Deus Ex : Mankind Divided coming next moth (28th August) is DX-12

Civilization VI coming October is DX-12

Battlefield 1 most definitely will support DX-12 and Vulkan coming October

Watch Dogs II is DX-12 coming November


Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
Markfw900

 

[The Stilt]

Probably it is unnecessary to mention that DX12 requires Windows 10. A way too high price to pay for me personally.



Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
Markfw900

 

[AtenRa]

Probably it is unnecessary to mention that DX12 requires Windows 10. A way too high price to pay for me personally.

You are still on XP/Vista ??? Because until the 29th of July everyone with Win 7 and 8/8.1 can upgrade free to Win 10.



Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
Markfw900

 

[The Stilt]

You are still on XP/Vista ??? Because until the 29th of July everyone with Win 7 and 8/8.1 can upgrade free to Win 10.

I'm on Windows 7. And no, I'm not looking to downgrade to Windows 10 just for DX12 :sneaky:



Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
Markfw900

 

[frozentundra123456]

I'm on Windows 7. And no, I'm not looking to downgrade to Windows 10 just for DX12 :sneaky:

I wish I had stayed on Win 7 as well, but I kept Win 10 installed too long to revert back to 7.

I hate Win 10 so much that I am seriously considering reverting to factory default settings just to get rid of it. (I have an OEM system and dont have a Win 7 CD.) I only upgraded for DX 12, and so far there are zero games that interest me. Well that and I got tired of MS continually nagging me.



Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
Markfw900

 

[Zstream]

I wish I had stayed on Win 7 as well, but I kept Win 10 installed too long to revert back to 7.

I hate Win 10 so much that I am seriously considering reverting to factory default settings just to get rid of it. (I have an OEM system and dont have a Win 7 CD.) I only upgraded for DX 12, and so far there are zero games that interest me. Well that and I got tired of MS continually nagging me.

Hmm.. No major issues here. In fact, the only thing that seems to be different is the start screen

 

[DrMrLordX]

I doubt that there will be proper chipset support for AM4 under Win7 as well. So anyone that wants Summit Ridge should probably go ahead and expect to use Win10 . . . or Linux.

Please note I said nothing about the product. My issue is with the claim, and how it had no relation with the product, the RX 480.

Works for me! Whatever drives down them 480 prices . . .

 

[The Stilt]

I doubt that there will be proper chipset support for AM4 under Win7 as well. So anyone that wants Summit Ridge should probably go ahead and expect to use Win10 . . . or Linux.



Works for me! Whatever drives down them 480 prices . . .

What exactly would prevent AMD from supporting the chipsets of AM4 platform on, let's say Vista and newer? IMO exactly nothing.

Also IIRC basically the same IPs used in Promontory & Taishan are used elsewhere too, and there are certainly no artificial OS limitations.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I doubt that there will be proper chipset support for AM4 under Win7 as well.

That would be a real freaking shame, IMHO. If true, that would also mean next to no traction for AM4 platform among business buyers.

Considering that businesses are nearly the only ones buying desktop PCs still, in qty., that would essentially doom AM4 to a niche like AM1, only it won't be cheap. A double blow!

 

[guachi]

This is getting off topic in the cpu forums, but nobody argues that the 480 offers a lot of performance for the price.

Upon its release the 480 had the highest performance per dollar of any card on the market.

That being said, I expect if Zen can have 40% IPC increase then it'll be close to what Intel can do. But I guess that depends on what the frequencies have to be to get that IPC gain. At least it'll be a different launch than Polaris with the top-of-the-line desktop part coming first. A chip that's faster and cheaper than the 6600 would be a great buy for gamers.

 

[majord]

That would be a real freaking shame, IMHO. If true, that would also mean next to no traction for AM4 platform among business buyers.

Considering that businesses are nearly the only ones buying desktop PCs still, in qty., that would essentially doom AM4 to a niche like AM1, only it won't be cheap. A double blow!

You realize Kaby Lake will have no support for Windows 10 either?

Even Skylake will lose all but critical security support after July 2018

In other words, ALL businesses will have to move to windows 10 very shortly if they intend to purchase anything new in 2017

 

[itsmydamnation]

The XP to win7 migration has been done and dusted, win 7 to win 10 is a breeze, there is very little that works in win7 but not win10. The people on win7 aren't the issue and they are the ones who will buy new hardware. Its the people still suck on 2k/XP because of X/Y/Z million dollar MRI/milling/etc machine are going to have the pain, but they already have it in many cases.

 

[nismotigerwvu]

Yeah, honestly the only thing keeping 7 on a few of my machines is Windows Media Center since of my combination of provider (TWC who encrypts everything) and my cablcard tuner (Ceton Infinitv) means Windows Media Center is my only option. I moved my gaming PC to 10 over the weekend and it was a breeze. I'm toying around with hack~ish means of running WMC on 10 on the gaming PC but it isn't really that stable.

 

[superstition]

So because Intel over promised it's OK that AMD does?

That's really your argument?

No, nor does what you quoted make that argument.

 

[superstition]

It did not make sense at all, for Intel to release Skylake Desktop part with eDRAM so shortly after Broadwell with eDRAM. They rarely ever cannibalize their products. Skylake eDRAM 3 months after Broadwell eDRAM is the very definition of that.

1) Skylake required a different motherboard chipset and RAM (except for one Gigabyte board that offers DDR3 support but which still relies on a different chipset).

2) Broadwell C supply was highly constrained — to the point of people paying much higher than MSRP and being able to buy them only from oddball sources like independent Japanese vendors on Amazon as well as Ebay.

Skylake failed to outperform Broadwell C in most games with discreet graphics and in some other tasks, making the requirement of a new board and RAM quite a case of toe-stepping.

The argument that Skylake was purposefully designed to not step on Broadwell's toes seems contradicted by pretty much everything I've read, including the fact that Skylake shipped with an EDRAM controller.