New Zen microarchitecture details

Discussion in 'CPUs and Overclocking' started by Dresdenboy, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. Zstream

    Zstream Platinum Member

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    Wow, I haven't actually seen that slide. I wonder why people reference the 2.8x to the 480?
     
  2. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    Because AMD puts out confusing slides? Slides that have to be deciphered and footnoted, and interpreted.

    Not that they are alone in that...
     
  3. coercitiv

    coercitiv Golden Member

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    Because of this.
    [​IMG]

    Top left "RX 480 Built on 14nm FinFET"
    Middle of the screen "UP TO 2.8X" PPW with a tiny footnote sign.

    If they want to play the footnote game... they get the PR and credibility to match.

    Personally I see nothing confusing about this: they lied. As I may have said before on the VC&G forum, from now on AMD better back any claim they make with a live demo: zero credibility policy from me.

    Oops, missed an entire page of comments from my last post. I'll leave the post as is even if redundant.
     
    #2178 coercitiv, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  4. AtenRa

    AtenRa Lifer

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  5. DrMrLordX

    DrMrLordX Diamond Member

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    Awesome! 480 is horrible, send them all to me, thanks. Nobody else should want them. After all, I have no use for them . . . nope nope.

    I'll also take all the Summit Ridge CPUs if you guys don't want them. They are also going to be awful, no doubt!
     
  6. KTE

    KTE Senior member

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    And that's what they are doing with Zen right now..

    Sent from HTC 10
    (Opinions are own)
     
    #2181 KTE, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  7. Phynaz

    Phynaz Diamond Member

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    So because Intel over promised it's OK that AMD does?

    That's really your argument?
     
  8. Phynaz

    Phynaz Diamond Member

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    My Steam library has over 1,000 games in it. Not one is a DX12 game.

    Many people are acting as if prior versions of DX just suddenly disappeared because DX12 came out.
     
  9. AtenRa

    AtenRa Lifer

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    There is not a single post that implies DX-11 disappeared, but people are not acknowledging that DX-12 era is here, now. The next 6-12 months all major AAA titles coming are DX-12. You may not have any DX-12 games now but you may get in the coming months.



    Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
    Markfw900
     
    #2184 AtenRa, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2016
  10. coercitiv

    coercitiv Golden Member

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    Please note I said nothing about the product. My issue is with the claim, and how it had no relation with the product, the RX 480.
     
  11. Dresdenboy

    Dresdenboy Golden Member

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    I'll cite and post further Radeon stuff in the other subforum.

    FinFET/Zen related stuff might stay here.

    So far I think, even Polaris isn't of much help here to do finer estimations of Zen's clock frequency prospects.

    Of course, the next enqueued Radeon models might improve the picture, as lower enabled CU counts (470) or overall less CUs (Polaris 11) reduce the amount of power consuming blocks, which currently hide true V/F scaling behind power and temperature limits somewhat. The roofline model of performance estimation would be useful here.

    BTW, being in the Zen thread: Fudo let another bit of information out of his full hat:
    http://www.fudzilla.com/news/processors/41088-16-zen-core-opteron-is-snowy-owl
    Now it's another socket for the dual die Opteron.

    That's what I meant with cost driven volume die strategy: No more costly low volume dies (especially the big ones), but thanks to MCM/interposers they might build a lot of different chips from those dies. The volumes would even help with cherry picking special low power or higher frequency parts, which could be combined on the same package then. This should save them several million dollars of design, test, and mask set costs.

    They shouldn't. But you're right. With a sample size of 1 we now have a proof, that old Steam games won't disappear. ;) BTW, how many % of them don't need a 2016 GPU to run smooth?
     
    #2186 Dresdenboy, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  12. Sweepr

    Sweepr Diamond Member

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  13. Phynaz

    Phynaz Diamond Member

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    Steam top sellers - Number of DX12 titles = 0

    Steam upcoming AAA titles that are DX12 = < 100%

    Now let's get back on topic, shall we?
     
  14. AtenRa

    AtenRa Lifer

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    Total War Warhammer is DX-12 and currently on Steam top sellers,

    Also,

    Deus Ex : Mankind Divided coming next moth (28th August) is DX-12

    Civilization VI coming October is DX-12

    Battlefield 1 most definitely will support DX-12 and Vulkan coming October

    Watch Dogs II is DX-12 coming November


    Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
    Markfw900
     
    #2189 AtenRa, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2016
  15. The Stilt

    The Stilt Golden Member

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    Probably it is unnecessary to mention that DX12 requires Windows 10. A way too high price to pay for me personally.



    Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
    Markfw900
     
    #2190 The Stilt, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2016
  16. AtenRa

    AtenRa Lifer

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    You are still on XP/Vista ??? Because until the 29th of July everyone with Win 7 and 8/8.1 can upgrade free to Win 10.



    Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
    Markfw900
     
    #2191 AtenRa, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2016
  17. The Stilt

    The Stilt Golden Member

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    I'm on Windows 7. And no, I'm not looking to downgrade to Windows 10 just for DX12 :sneaky:



    Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
    Markfw900
     
    #2192 The Stilt, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2016
  18. frozentundra123456

    frozentundra123456 Diamond Member

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    I wish I had stayed on Win 7 as well, but I kept Win 10 installed too long to revert back to 7.

    I hate Win 10 so much that I am seriously considering reverting to factory default settings just to get rid of it. (I have an OEM system and dont have a Win 7 CD.) I only upgraded for DX 12, and so far there are zero games that interest me. Well that and I got tired of MS continually nagging me.



    Stop talking about DX12 and the RX480 and stay on topic with ZEN
    Markfw900
     
    #2193 frozentundra123456, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2016
  19. Zstream

    Zstream Platinum Member

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    Hmm.. No major issues here. In fact, the only thing that seems to be different is the start screen ;)
     
  20. DrMrLordX

    DrMrLordX Diamond Member

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    I doubt that there will be proper chipset support for AM4 under Win7 as well. So anyone that wants Summit Ridge should probably go ahead and expect to use Win10 . . . or Linux.

    Works for me! Whatever drives down them 480 prices . . .
     
  21. The Stilt

    The Stilt Golden Member

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    What exactly would prevent AMD from supporting the chipsets of AM4 platform on, let's say Vista and newer? IMO exactly nothing.

    Also IIRC basically the same IPs used in Promontory & Taishan are used elsewhere too, and there are certainly no artificial OS limitations.
     
  22. VirtualLarry

    VirtualLarry Lifer

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    That would be a real freaking shame, IMHO. If true, that would also mean next to no traction for AM4 platform among business buyers.

    Considering that businesses are nearly the only ones buying desktop PCs still, in qty., that would essentially doom AM4 to a niche like AM1, only it won't be cheap. A double blow!
     
  23. guachi

    guachi Senior member

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    Upon its release the 480 had the highest performance per dollar of any card on the market.

    That being said, I expect if Zen can have 40% IPC increase then it'll be close to what Intel can do. But I guess that depends on what the frequencies have to be to get that IPC gain. At least it'll be a different launch than Polaris with the top-of-the-line desktop part coming first. A chip that's faster and cheaper than the 6600 would be a great buy for gamers.
     
    #2198 guachi, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  24. majord

    majord Senior member

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    You realize Kaby Lake will have no support for Windows 10 either?

    Even Skylake will lose all but critical security support after July 2018

    In other words, ALL businesses will have to move to windows 10 very shortly if they intend to purchase anything new in 2017
     
  25. itsmydamnation

    itsmydamnation Golden Member

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    The XP to win7 migration has been done and dusted, win 7 to win 10 is a breeze, there is very little that works in win7 but not win10. The people on win7 aren't the issue and they are the ones who will buy new hardware. Its the people still suck on 2k/XP because of X/Y/Z million dollar MRI/milling/etc machine are going to have the pain, but they already have it in many cases.