New Zen microarchitecture details

Discussion in 'CPUs and Overclocking' started by Dresdenboy, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. Ajay

    Ajay Diamond Member

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    That article is terrible!!
    As one responder points out, 14nm FD-SOI is still in development - so it's yields are not yet known (which invalidates any cost metric).
     
  2. Arachnotronic

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    IBM's 14nm FinFET process that will be used to manufacture POWER9 uses SOI wafers, IIRC.
     
  3. Phynaz

    Phynaz Diamond Member

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    As pointed out in the thread about the article, Handel Jones is a paid shill.
     
  4. KTE

    KTE Senior member

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    In terms of FDSOI...
    https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/5837-highlights-28nm-fd-soi-san-jose-presentations.html
    http://semimd.com/hars/tag/14nm/
    https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/3767-fd-soi-14nm.html
    45nm ARM https://www.arm.com/about/newsroom/26070.php
    http://www.advancedsubstratenews.co...reakthroughs-in-14nm-fd-soi-10nm-soi-finfets/

    See what they presented. Mostly for smaller mobility devices where leakage is crucial but IBM and Co did present some impressive "profiling" (like usual).

    In terms of GF 14nm...
    https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/5119-globalfoundries-14nm-process-update.html
    And yes, IBM has the more high performance tuned process at GF with 14nm expected to be a long node with many tiers.

    EDIT:
    LPP is a tweaked version of LPE... as GF has marketed it:

    [​IMG]


    Sent from HTC 10
    (Opinions are own)
     
    #2004 KTE, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
  5. KTE

    KTE Senior member

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    16 June: http://blogs.barrons.com/techtrader...o-polaris-zen-impress-says-canaccord-buy-the/

    :D
     
  6. guskline

    guskline Diamond Member

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    Good for AMD and good for us down the line.
     
  7. cytg111

    cytg111 Diamond Member

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    "special" - that can go both ways.........
     
  8. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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  9. Abwx

    Abwx Diamond Member

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    “We are extremely exited about Zen,” said Su. “We’re going to tell you more about it as we go over the next couple of quarters.” “It’s on track, it’s special.

    We ll know more about Zen in the two coming quarters, she s talking of releasing infos, next significant infos is at Hotchips for the exact uarch in two months and absolute perfs will likely be known at launch in two quarters, that is in october..
     
  10. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    Tell us more about it = talk about it.

    That's the way I read it.

    If they are launching in October, then I can't see any downside to revealing Zen pretty soon.

    The longer they wait, the more customers buy something else.

    With a nice Zen reveal, many customers will wait for Zen, and we can dispose of the hype and talk about Zen realistically.
     
  11. KTE

    KTE Senior member

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    We'll have a lot by late August...

    Personally, I'm pretty adamant this is a paper November-ish DT launch for 2016. I don't think that's too bad, if the product is competitive.
     
  12. Headfoot

    Headfoot Diamond Member

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    Makes the most business sense to drop Zen details (e.g. in order to slow competitor sales) around the peak buying period around Back to School season, so I'd assume we get some details around that time. Next couple of months, even without her making that statement it makes the most logical sense.
     
  13. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    I thought we were getting server chips first, so there wouldn't be any Zen chips for back to school systems?
     
  14. scannall

    scannall Senior member

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    No, consumer chips first. Server chips have to go through a lot more validation.
     
  15. Ajay

    Ajay Diamond Member

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    Can't wait till Hotchips now. It'll be nice to see a clean sheet x86 uArch!
    I really, really hope that AMD isn't over hyping Zen. It would be awesome to have an Intel competitor again.
     
  16. KTE

    KTE Senior member

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    Same here.

    It will either be a revolution or a huge letdown

    But the stocks are only going up due to renewed analyst ratings predicting $6 due to Zen and Polaris.




    Sent from HTC 10
    (Opinions are own)
     
    #2016 KTE, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
  17. Dresdenboy

    Dresdenboy Golden Member

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    What is your "revolution" threshold?
     
  18. scannall

    scannall Senior member

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    I don't think it very likely that it will match Skylake IPC. Perhaps as high as Haswell. More likely Ivy Bridge, but that's still pretty darn good. But, if the price and core counts are right, then they'll be competitive enough for me anyway.
     
  19. MajinCry

    MajinCry Platinum Member

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    Said it 'afore, but Skylake's only around 20% faster than Sandybridge. The most pessimistic expectations are for Sandybridge/Ivybridge perf. That's actually pretty damn good, unlike the current Piledriver situation.
     
  20. KTE

    KTE Senior member

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    If marketshare can be above the Duron days.

    If it's competitive and makes them a profit.

    Financial analysts have predicted 6% server share at most by 2020, from the current <1%. Bleak compared to the 20% during K8 days, but 5% in each market would be a win for them in my book.

    A Lenovo sort turnaround from the IBM era (~5%) IS possible

    Sent from HTC 10
    (Opinions are own)
     
  21. jpiniero

    jpiniero Diamond Member

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    It's probably more like 20-30% for the most part, but there are a few cases where it really takes off... the 6700 is like 45-50% faster than the 3930K in the Chrome benchmarks.

    That seems tough unless it's competitive on perf/w. China may not care but they may be the only ones, and there's always going to be the question whether they will actually pay the royalties.

    Especially with the way that the PC market is imploding I don't think you could really count on increased mainstream share really helping their cause much.
     
  22. MajinCry

    MajinCry Platinum Member

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    Aye, there are fringe cases, like Haswell being a good 30% faster than Ivybridge in emulation, but again. Fringe cases.

    Gotta average it out. Fer example, Piledriver's a dog, but in multithreaded Linux workloads, it's a god damn monster.
     
  23. Ajay

    Ajay Diamond Member

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    Thanks for the correction. Still not in production yet, either way.
     
  24. The Stilt

    The Stilt Golden Member

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    Didn't ask me, but if it hits FX-8150 clocks (3.6GHz base / 4.2GHz boost) <= 125W power draw (overclocked or not) I'd say Zeppelin is nothing shy of a revolution.

    However I'd still call it as a success if AMD is able to ship the 8C/16T variant of Zeppelin at >= 3.0GHz base and >= 3.6GHz boost, at 95W.

    IMO the only way Zeppelin can fail is a failure to reach clocks high enough.
     
  25. Dresdenboy

    Dresdenboy Golden Member

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    They might delay it then. Using clocks and power, you might actually draw a line into a chart to define a range of succesful to revolutionary ZP chip specs.

    Did you follow the Polaris clock reveals? I'm sure they did't move the FO4 metric around that much while doing the next GCN iteration. Power went down. Yet the clocks are significantly higher with 14LPP.