My first gaming build plan ^^ opinions and improvements needed

[mfenn]

1: does it matter if any cords are touching any PCBs?

No, it does not matter.

2: if you were building a super itx system, would you get a titan, 690, or the new 7990?

Wat?

 

[Sleepingforest]

Yeah, I just wouldn't bother with miniITX when mATX is nearly as portable and much easier to deal with.

For the record though: I wouldn't bother with any of those super flagships. Just a plain 7970 is good enough, and another $400 card in the future will tie or wreck the Titan/690/7990. Just look at the 6990--it's already only as strong as the 7970 GHz.

 

[Splenyi]

OK thanks, I wasn't thinking of getting one, just a random question, and to see which one of those mega cards you guys thought was best

 

[Sleepingforest]

Well, objectively, the 7990 and 690 are better purchases on raw power if you just want one card. However, AMD needs to improve Crossfire drivers.

Titans are good if and only iff you want 2 super cards.

 

[Splenyi]

So only bother getting a Titan if you're going to be packing a pair of them?

And I guess AMD's crummy CFX would place the 690 above the 7990, but if that issue was resolved?

 

[Sleepingforest]

I see a few reports claiming the 7990 is stronger on raw power, while a few say its a tie. It's safe to say that the 7990 will have more microstutter issues though.

If you dont notice microstutter, a 7990 is probably better. Plus, AMD promised to fix it over the summer.

 

[Splenyi]

Ok, so my friend wants me to build him a system, and the graphics card he wants is a 7950 or 660TI. I would throw a 7950 to him over a 660TI any day, because the hardware in it is so much better. But he also wants to be able to add another card in the future. So should I give him an AMD card anyway, and hope they fix the CFX issues over summer, or should I get him an nVidia card?

The cards I'm looking at:

660TI

7950

 

[Sleepingforest]

Tell him adding a second card is unworthwhile and a new single card is a more economical purchase.

The crippled memory of the 660ti is going to bother him in the future, just go 7950.

 

[mfenn]

I don't understand what all this hate for Crossfire is all about. It's totally fine in terms of performance and newer drivers greatly improve the frame pacing issues.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I don't understand what all this hate for Crossfire is all about. It's totally fine in terms of performance and newer drivers greatly improve the frame pacing issues.

It's kind of a stereotype I think (the frame pacing, I mean, not the performance. I always thought the performance is what can be expected). I personally don't notice microstutter too much, and when I do it's not that bothersome, but some people are super sensitive so it's worth a warning. Additionally, I typically consider multi-GPU setups unworthwhile.

Unless there's been a new set of drivers which mitigate this issue?

 

[Splenyi]

I don't really mind microstutter. I've been playing games on an APU based laptop, with a dedicated GPU in crossfire, and I'm used to major microstutter in a lot of games.

Also, another reason why I want to wait Haswell is because Ivy Bridge's thermal compound problems. It's not really one of those chips that I'll look back on and think, that was a great chip. The 2500k was great though. Maybe Haswell will have better thermal compound?

EDIT: Which air cooler do you guys think is the absolute best? I've heard good things about Thermalright's Silver Arrow, Phanteks' TC14PE, and Noctua's D14.

 

[Sleepingforest]

About a month ago, I would have said the best is the classic Noctua D14, no question. It holds it's own against a vast majority of AIO coolers, performing within a degree or two of even 280mm AIO rads while maintaining quieter or as quiet sound levels than their stock fans (while costing 33% less!)

But Noctua has outdone themselves with the U12S, which is apparantly quieter, cooler, and somehow small enough to not block any RAM slots or PCI(e) slots, while being cheaper, so I'd recommend that instead.

 

[Splenyi]

Alrighty, thanks. I'm going to build a silence-oriented PC for my friend, and I wanted to stick to air cooling, because apparently it's more quiet (especially the noctua's).

Here is what I am going to get him (hes budget is $2000)

Case - Fractal Design R4
CPU - 3570K
Mobo - ASRock Extreme6 (for the eSATA)
RAM - G.Skill Sniper 1600Mhz CL9 2x8GB 1.5v
PSU - Corsair 760
GPU - ?
HSF - Noctua U12S
SSD - Samsung 840 120GB
HDDs - 1TB WD Black, 2TB WD Green
Cooling - 3x Noctua A14 FLX
OS - Windows 8 64bit
OD - Samsung SATA DVDRW

That's about $1450, with another $550 left for anything else (including the GPU). Any suggestions on what else I need? I wanted a really higher quality PSU, because efficiency = less noise and heat. The SSD is for boot, WD Black is for games, WD Green is for everything else. Samsung optical drive is apparently good, and it's cheap.

So, what else can we get to make it more quiet? What GPU could we get for the absolute best thermal and acoustical performance?

EDIT: Changed the ram to a 2x4GB kit, taking the total cost down to $1400

 

[Sleepingforest]

Don't get a Black. They don't actually perform that much better; what you pay for is the extended warranty. Don't get a Green. They're meant for NAS arrays, and as such have awful speed (the bottleneck on an NAS is always the Ethernet).

Be careful. Often, the really high efficiency PSUs have unpotted coils, and thus produce considerable coil whine (which is noticeable essentially because their fan is rarely on and so quiet). Definitely don't get a PSU that big; PSUs are most efficient between 50% and 80% load. A 500-600W PSU will suffice.

For the GPU: basically, the weaker it is, the quieter (since it needs less power). You also could try water cooling it, either via a custom loop or a premade looop from Accelero.

 

[Splenyi]

Do you think 520W at 43 amps is enough for a 7970, overclocking the gpu and cpu? That's what seasonic's largest fanless psu can put out, and its apparently the best power supply to date.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I wouldn't bother. In terms of quality and ability, the Seasonic X650 or XP650 is so close that it's foolish to get the fanless one.

Also: if you really want a quiet system, don't overclock. That outputs far more heat than you can possibly save using a more efficient PSU.

 

[Splenyi]

Well the system isn't supposed to be purely based around quietness, we were hoping to get as much performance with as little noise and heat as possible.

Also, why would you recommend Noctua's U12S over the U14S? Bigger usually means cooler and quieter, right? According to Anandtech, the U14S is only about half a dB louder than the U12S at full load, and offers nearly 3 degree difference. U14S runs about 4 degree hotter than Corsair's H100i, but put another fan on the Noctua and it should be sweeping the floor with the h100i. Both these Noctua coolers are about 12dB quieter than Corsair's H100i.

We are 99% likely to put another Noctua PWM fan on the other side of which ever of these 2 coolers we get.

EDIT: Did you recommend the U12S because it doesn't block the first PCIe slot, like the U14S does?

 

[Sleepingforest]

EDIT: Did you recommend the U12S because it doesn't block the first PCIe slot, like the U14S does?

Exactly. It's up to you, your friend, and your exact motherboard model though.

 

[Splenyi]

Is there a software for AMD cards that allows me to limit the horsepower going into the cards, to aim for a certain framerate?

Just wondering, because I don't want the card busting its ass for 90fps, when I only really need 40.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Yes. It's called RadeonPro.

 

[Splenyi]

Alrighty thanks.

I've noticed that on Linus' YouTube channel, with his GPU benchmarks, the 7970 would only perform 10% better (at the max) than the 7950, despite being about 30% more expensive. So I'm seeing little reason to spend that money.

My only problem with his benchmarks is that the 7970 is reference style, while the 7950 is one of MSI's OC Boost cards. So maybe that's making a difference.

Anyway, I think ill still get a 7970.

 

[Sleepingforest]

A 7970 at the exact same clocks as a 7950 should perform around 10-20% better; a 7970 should also be able to ultimately clock higher on average.

 

[Splenyi]

$440 for ASUS's 680. Seems like a nice deal. I'll still be getting a 7970 though, which will be this weekend. Then I'm just going to be waiting for Haswell.

Apparently ASUS has something really nice planned for Haswell's release date, who knows what, but I'm excited about whatever it is.

 

[Splenyi]

780 came out, but the 7970 still seems like a better deal. 770 is due soon, but it's still only 2GB of GDDR5..... Nvidia has the competition, but it's not making them learn any faster.

What do you guys think of Silverstone's FT03 Mini?

EDIT: And apparently AMD will be skipping their second iteration of the GCN architecture...

 

[mfenn]

The FT03 Mini is a fine case as long as you are OK with limitations inherent in mini-ITX (single PCIe, limited number of drives). It is a bit pricey though.