My first gaming build plan ^^ opinions and improvements needed

[mfenn]

Question: You started this thread 3 months ago. Do you intend to complete the build?

 

[Splenyi]

How embarrassing :$ I only just noticed when you mentioned it. I suppose it's taken so long because I didn't really plan it out that great, and just decided to grab some seemingly good deals as they popped up, leaving me over spending so early on, and breaking the budget. Stupid choices on my behalf.

So, I've decided to sell everything that I have now for the same price as it's worth in Australia, and start my build over again (although, I'll be keeping Windows 8, my 250GB SSD and my 1TB HDD).

Maybe you guys could help me out a bit, and stop me from making stupid mistakes again. First off, I wanted my build to look amazing, even if it cost a little extra money and performance. Now, I realise I don't even care about that, and I just want a good performing, well optimised build. So, here is what I have decided on so far:

Case - Silverstone SG09; to me, this seems like one of the best engineered cases. There are intakes right infront of the VGA area, intake right on top of the rear exhaust and the CPU heatsink, it's very compact but doesn't sacrifice performance, and it's well priced. It's m-ATX, which I'm fine with. I'll be buying the short cable kit for $20 too, because Silverstone recommends it. Opinions on this case guys?

CPU - 4670k; Haswell is just around the corner, so I can wait another week or 2. The 3570k just rose to $250 in Australia, which is weird.

Mobo - ASUS P8Z77-M PRO (or at least the equivalent for Haswell); seems great, and it's only $20 more than ASRock's Extreme4-M and the regular p8Z77-M. Good choice?

RAM - Corsair 2x4GB White, Low Profile, Low Voltage; Cheapest 2x4GB set in Australia is Corsair XMS for $72 at the moment (ridiculous, I know), and this set is only $13 more. I' choosing it because of the lower voltage needed. Good choice, or should I not bother with the lower voltage?

PSU - ST60F-PS 80 Plus Silver; need Silverstone PSU if I'm going with the shorter cables recommended for the case. Silver is better than bronze and it's only 140mm long.

SSD - Samsung 840 250GB; already got it, and I decided to keep it.

HDD - WD Blue 1TB; it's got 1 platter, and apparently it's good. Already got it anyway.

HSF - Hyper 212 Evo; looked it up on the benchmarks and it really does perform so well, surprisingly well.

GPU - MSI Twin Frozer 7970; Gigabyte's Windforce is $20 cheaper, but the MSI isn't voltage locked (or so I've heard).

I think if I had some more money to improve anything, I would get Noctua's U12S, and maybe upgrade the mobo to one of the "gaming grade" ones, like Gigabytes Sniper-M.

What do you guys think of the build? Where would you guys make changes? I especially want peoples opinions on the case.

Thanks, and excuse my weird decisions

 

[Sleepingforest]

Here we go: you don't need the extra "features" of the P8Z77M Pro (and it won't work with a Haswell CPU). Low voltage RAM doesn't offer anything extra. 80 Plus Silver, unless your electricity exorbitantly high, will not save money in the long run.

Remember, the best way to futureproof is to save money for a later purchase.

 

[Splenyi]

I know that z77 boards won't work with Haswell, that's why I said "ASUS P8Z77-M PRO (or at least the equivalent for Haswell)"

Thanks for the info on the ram, I was a little unsure what the benefits could be, but apparently there's none

I'll probably just stick to 80 Plus Bronze then. Silver is $20 more for same wattage, and Gold is $30 more for about the same wattage (650 instead of 600).

Do you think my HD drives will get too hot behind the motherboard tray? Because there is no cooling going on back there.

 

[Sleepingforest]

According to Dustin, storage thermals are not great but acceptable.

 

[Splenyi]

Thanks. Exactly what is a dangerous temperature for HDD?

 

[Sleepingforest]

Hard drives can survive up to about 50C with ease--in fact, they have a better lifespan at 50 than sub-30, according to Google (the companies research, not the search engine).

 

[Splenyi]

Ah ok thanks, so no worries at all. The case is perfect then, apart from the strange appearance, but I can get past that for so great compact performance.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Just remember not to put it next to a wall!

 

[Splenyi]

I read a review of the SG09 on SilentPC, and apparently the top intake fan is really good for the CPU, but terrible for the graphics cards! They said reversing it to an exhaust would decrease GPU temps by 13 degrees, but maybe I could keep it as an intake and make the side fan exhaust to pull all that hot air away.

I'm now thinking about Silverstone's TJ08-E, which SilentPC recommends as their top m-ATX case. It's 7 litres larger, but it has a more standard shape and much better appearance. It's also $20 cheaper, but I would spend that money saved on a rear exhaust fan for this case, if I decided to get it.

I'm not entirely sure yet, any opinions maybe? Whatever choice I make, it wont affect the rest of the components I chose.

 

[Sleepingforest]

The TJ08E is a bit less portable though... no handles and it's roughly the size of a stereotypical Dell tower.

 

[Splenyi]

True.

I don't really like the HDD placement either, because all the cords going to the drives would slightly block the only intake for the whole case. I think I will stick to the SG09. I did see that the SG10 will be releasing soon, which is pretty much the exact same as the 09, but with an updated appearance, and no new features, so I won't bother getting it.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=392

EDIT: Have you guys heard anything on if Swiftech will be releasing some new watercoolers (I'm waiting for a great thick 120mm)? I also noticed Silverstone will be making closed-loop water coolers too! Tundra is the brand name for them, which is pictured on their Facebook page (model is TD03). I don't like Corsair's, but I like Swiftech's, and I'd like to see how Silverstone's are.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Swifttech makes solid liquid cooling loops, and many of them can be expanded at will.

 

[mfenn]

We can't really speak about what good Haswell CPU and mobo deals are until it's released.

As for the case, the SG09 is competitive with big ATX towers in terms of GPU and CPU thermals.

 

[Splenyi]

We can't really speak about what good Haswell CPU and mobo deals are until it's released.

Well, I'll just get a 4670k, because that level of CPU is always the best for gaming, and I'll probably just get a m-ATX board between $110 and $130.

As for the case, the SG09 is competitive with big ATX towers in terms of GPU and CPU thermals.

That's great! In about a third of the volume too.

EDIT: These are the m-ATX cases I have been checking out lately:

Arc Mini - classic design and feature set, seems to offer great cooling expandability (watercooling), but at a volume of 41 litres.

Define Mini - Same as the former, but optimised for silence and no 240/280mm rad support, same volume.

Obsidian 350D - Very similar to the Fractal Design ones, maybe a little better, 42 litres.

TJ08-E - slightly similar, but with less expandability and luxury features, but a nice 29 litres.

SG09 - Super compact and great cooling apparently, but ugly, amazing 23 litres.

FT03 - Tiny footprint, but about the height of a mid ATX tower, build quality seems much lower than the mini version, so i wish they would make a revision for this (FT03-E?), a lot of unnecessary height for IO connections, but looks great and apparently has fairly decent cooling, only 31 litres.

The first 3 I probably won't be getting because of the MUCH larger size, unless someone can give me a compelling reason to pick one. Silverstone seems to be the leader in compact cases IMO.

m-ITX I like are FT03 Mini, SG08, and Node 304. But probably won't be getting m-ITX, but I'll just see what vendors have on Haswell release.

 

[cbk]

I would go with a WD Caviar Black 1TB 64MB Cache, It's a great HD, for only a bit more money at $90.

 

[Splenyi]

I have a black and blue, I got the black on special for same price as a blue. Both 1TB

 

[Splenyi]

Would you guys suggest a blower style cooler for the sg09, or an impeller style (I think that's what theyre called) for my graphics card?

 

[Sleepingforest]

Blower and impeller are the same thing. You mean axial versus centrifugal (axial uses multiple axial fans [parallel-with-axis] while centrifugal uses a single impeller-type [flow is perpendicular the fan axis] to fan). This is also often called aftermarket versus reference cooling (aftermarket also implies, but does not guarantee, a custom PCB and other goodies, like better caps).

 

[Splenyi]

Oh right well would you recommend a fan cooler or blower cooler in the sg09

 

[mfenn]

I would go with a WD Caviar Black 1TB 64MB Cache, It's a great HD, for only a bit more money at $90.

The Black is fundamentally the same thing as a Blue. It's not worth the upcharge considering that the SSD should be used for anything requiring I/O performance.

Oh right well would you recommend a fan cooler or blower cooler in the sg09

The main difference between an blower and a normal axial fan cooler is that the fans will dump heat inside the case whereas the blower sends nearly all of it out the back. Generally speaking, a blower has to make do with a single, smaller fan and so is louder for the same cooling capacity.

However, blower coolers are better in small cases. This is because a small case generally has less capability to deal with extra heat inside the case. That means that the other fans (like the CPU and PSU fans) will have to spin faster, thus undermining the noise advantage of the axial fan GPU in the first place.

 

[Splenyi]

Right, thanks mfenn. The SG09 does have some fans placed directly over the VGA area (1x120mm stock, but another 2x92/80mm optional), so maybe I could experiment with intake to bring cool air directly to the card, or exhaust to pull that hot air away, or I could add 1 or 2 92mm fans, have some as intake and some as exhaust (if I get fan coolers for the graphics). I'm not sure yet, but I'm fairly sure that this will be the case I'm getting if I got micro ATX.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I think the SG09 has good enough cooling to handle axial coolers. On the other hand, if you wanted to overclock or put the card under water, you almost certainly want a reference design because they generally have unlocked voltages and it's easier to find cooling blocks (and they're cheaper). Stuff like the MSI 7970 OC.

 

[Splenyi]

I think it would be near impossible to watercool in the SG09, because the only rad suitable mount is a 120 on the rear, and that couldn't cool an entire system. I'm not even sure if I could install rads on the side and top panels, given that its all one removable piece.

I was slightly unsure about the SG09 once you brought up watercooling, but this case is a great air cooler, and if I want to use that cooling solution later on, ill just get a different case.

I've still got m-ITX on my mind though, but ill just wait and see what the prices on those are like.

I've got till the weekend to decide, then ill finally get this thing done.

Haswell hit Australia this morning, and the prices are mind devouring.

- 4670k $275
- ASUS Z87-A $210
- ASRock Z87 Extreme3 $181
- Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H $129
- ASUS Z87M-PLUS $139

Other prices for new stuff incase anyone wants to feel the entirety of my Australian pain:

- Galaxy GeForce GTX 770 GC $469
- Gigabyte GeForce GTX 770 OC Edition $529
- EVGA GeForce GTX 780 $749
- Gigabyte GeForce GTX 780 $829

I try not to blame pccasegear, from what I've heard it's the wholesaler's overpricing because they believe "Australians should pay more"....

 

[Splenyi]

On the other hand, if you wanted to overclock or put the card under water, you almost certainly want a reference design because they generally have unlocked voltages and it's easier to find cooling blocks (and they're cheaper). Stuff like the MSI 7970 OC.

Good idea, I'll get reference jst incase I want to watercool. How about a HIS 7970. It's the only reference design I can find.