My first gaming build plan ^^ opinions and improvements needed

[Splenyi]

Hey there guys,

New to this forum, but I had a quick look around on what I would be saying here

So, I've got a little help from someone on creating my first gaming PC build, but more than one opinion is always better, right? It's not made yet, and I haven't ordered any pieces, which is why I am here, for opinions on what I have put together so far.

Here is what I am currently planning:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=22367246
It's a rather mid/high end PC (more on the mid end I suppose).

As I've already said, it's primarily for gaming, but I do enjoy photoshop and 3dsMax, so I may double my RAM in the future, but that is not priority for now

The price of the build at the moment (between $1400 and $1450 for the entire lot) is pretty much what I'm going for, I just want to stay inside that zone of price.

So, here is a tiny explanation on the pieces I chose:

Case : NZXT Phantom 410
- It looks cool, apparently has decent cooling, decent cable management and enough space. Didn't want to spend too much money on a case.

Mobo : ASRock Z77 Extreme4
- Again, didn't want to spend to much on my mobo. But I did want enough space for any possible future expansion, like and extra 2 RAM sticks (2 planned at the moment, so possibly expand to 4), or an additional GPU. I was referenced to this mobo, so if anyone knows a better alternative for around the same price, please let me know

GPU : EVGA 02G-P4-3660-KR GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB
- I wasn't afraid of spending a bit of cash on this part, which is why I am considering upgrading to their 670. I was told EVGA have top quality GPUs. If you guys think the 670 upgrade is worth it, let me know

PSU : SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM
- Just wanted something that could do the job and give my build some clean power, but didn't want to go for platinum because of the price. If I make the 670 upgrade, I was going to upgrade my PSU to the SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold. I think SeaSonic is the best, what do you guys think?

CPU : Intel Core i5-3570K
- I found the i7's out there for the 1155 socket not worth the extra money. I'm fine with this CPU, and it can be OCed if I feel like doing so, which is why I've packed a COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO in my build. Do you guys think an i7-3770K upgrade is worth it?

RAM : G.SKILL Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB)
- It's cheap, got some good reviews, and I heard it's amazing. I wanted 8GB in 2 sticks so that I can upgrade to 16GB if my 3D and 2D artwork programs demand it. Any better recommendations for the RAM?

HDD : Western Digital Black 1TB
- Western Digital is great, and I don't need any more than 1TB. I was going to get a 2TB Seagate Barracuda, but I decided quality is better than quality in this case, plus the extended warranty is great. If I want to set up RAID in the future, I'll just get another one of these.

SSD : Kingston V300 Series 120GB
- I was recommended this one, but I'm not too sure about it :hmm:. I'm not up to buying a 256GB one of these at the moment, might upgrade that in the future when my wallet is deeper. Any recommendations on a better brand, or is this one good?
Edit: I've changed the SSD to the G.SKILL Phoenix III 120GB, just because it's a fair chunk better.

Monitor : ViewSonic VX2253mh
- Exactly what I want for a good price; LED backlight, 1920x1080 maximum resolution, HD HDMI, and 22", plus it's popular, so it must be good. I don't want any 3D features or anything over 60hz.
Edit: Changed to an ASUS monitor, $10 more, better specs, looks better, why not

Optical Drive : Samsung
- Apparently it's quiet, that's all I want from one of these.

Keyboard and Mouse : Microsoft Desktop 400
- Don't worry about this ^_^ It's just something I can use my PC with until I decide which gaming equipment to get.

OS : Windows 8
- Whatever, I'm getting it, might as well :$ it's rubbish, but I'll get use to it.

So there we have it If you guys have any recommendations on improvements without stretching the price of anything toooooo much, then feel free, who doesn't enjoy getting what they payed for? I have no brand preference..... well I definitely am going to go with Intel:biggrin: but nothing else. Most likely will be buying this stuff from newegg. Not sure between AMD or nvidia GPUs?

EDIT: I was thinking about getting a tiny SSD specifically for the OS, and have the larger SSD that I have listed here for games, photoshop and 3dsMax. Worth it? How big is the OS, is 32GB enough?

 

[mfenn]

Ouch! You can do a lot better for $1450. A GTX 660 Ti is quite weak for a machine costing that much.

i5 3570K $240
Biostar TZ77B + 8GB of RAM $100 - you do not need SLI/CFX for 1080p
Corsair DDR3 1600 8GB $48 - not my first pick of RAM, but it matches the free RAM and gives you a total of 16GB
7970 3GB $380 - you've got the budget, might as well get the best
Samsung 840 120 GB $110
Toshiba 1TB $75
Lite-ON DVD Burner $18
Corsair TX650 V2 $56 AR AP
Phantom 410 $100
Hyper 212 EVO $30 AR
ASUS 23" 1080P IPS $175 AR
Microsoft Desktop 400 $20
Windows 8 $100
Total: $1452 AR AP

 

[Splenyi]

This is why I came here !

I was hoping we could talk a bit about GPUs.

#1 - What is this "physx" that nvidia has, and which GPU's have it, and how much do I have to pay if I want it? I saw their video on what it does to Borderlands 2, and it looks amazing. But I', wondering if I would need a lot of RAM or an i7 OCed to do that, because it looks a lot more demanding?

#2 - What is the difference between nvidia and AMD? I read one has greater "raw graphics processing", and the other has greater "compute power". No idea what this means though. Also, I read that AMD generally have a better 'bang for the buck'.

#3 - Do nvidia GPUs have better support for Intel CPUs, and AMD GPUs better support for AMD CPUs, in regards of all the extra features?

#4 - With my price range, I don't expect to be packing a 680, 690 or 7990 I can get a lower-end 7970 and 670 though, which is what I am aiming for now. But what to go with, AMD or nvidia? I won't be using any more than 1 monitor, I'll be sticking to the 1920x1080 resolution, and I don't plan on overclocking my CPU. So will the 3GB of VRM be necassary, or is a higher-end 2GB sufficient?

#5 - From what I understand, the ASUS, EVGA, Gigabyte and MSI GPUs are the best, but if I'm going to go with an AMD GPU I might consider getting a Sapphire, just because of the nice price, unless you think the extra $$$ is worth it?

Ok for the mobo you suggested. I'm guessing the main reason you suggested that mobo is because of the free RAM? I wont be able to order these pieces for another 2 weeks, so I'm not sure if that offer will still exist. I just want a decent mobo that complements the rest of my build, and wont restrict any of its power.

I'm fairly confident 8GB RAM will be enough, and if I want more ram I can just double it up. I'm also living in Australia, so I doubt I will be buying from newegg (only just found out today that they don't ship to AUS ), so I guess I don't have access to that special.

I think that's all the questions I have for now

EDIT: Another question; is writing speed in SSDs important for gaming? Is that just for moving/pasting large files?

 

[Torn Mind]

lol, 7990 is two 7970s Crossfired on one card. Similarly, the GTX 690 is two SLI'd 680s on one card. The GTX 670, GTX 680, and 7970 are top tier cards.

 

[lucaswhite]

I don't know GPUs is.

 

[Sleepingforest]

1. PhysX is a way of animating things. It's generally unnoticeable for me--I can't really tell the difference. Those videos are seriously cherrypicked. It's not immensely more demanding, but you must get an Nvidia card to use it.

2. the 2012 generation saw AMD's 7XXX series take a commanding performance/dollar lead for people willing to overclock (and a small lead for those unwilling), while Nvidia has a small performance/watt lead.

3. Not at all. All modern GPUs will work well with all modern CPUs.

4. The 7970 is a better purchase simply because it's faster out of the box than a price-comparable 670 and the increased VRAM gives it a small buffer in future games.

5. Well, the fact that you're in Australia complicates the "best deal" factor a bit. Can you link us to a site? Some advice on manufacturers: pretty much every manufacturer is "good" though--each has their own strengths and weaknesses, as well as their own favored price point. XFX and Powercolor, for instance, produce the lower cost, weaker cooler models of the 7970, though Powercolor also produces a higher end set of 7970s.

 

[Splenyi]

lol, 7990 is two 7970s Crossfired on one card. Similarly, the GTX 690 is two SLI'd 680s on one card. The GTX 670, GTX 680, and 7970 are top tier cards.

Whatever, doesn't matter to me, they're too expensive either way.

I don't know GPUs is.

Graphics Processing Unit aka. Video Card

@ Sleepingforest

#1 - Ok thanks for the info

#2 - Ok, so I'm picking between more efficient power consumption or a cheaper unit for its power.

#3 - Thanks for the info again

#4 - Looks like I'm going for a 7970 EDIT: most definitely the Gigabyte one, unless someone can convince me to get the Sapphire which seems to be more power efficient (probably because of only 2 fans) and more powerful.

#5 - The best Australian site I have seen (not bad compared to amazon or newegg, lack of variety in some things though) is pccasegear.com. As for GPU manufacturer, I think I'll get somewhere between great cooling and cheap price.

EDIT: I still got this important question I was hoping someone could answer:

Is writing speed in SSDs important for gaming? Is that just for moving/pasting large files?

I wouldn't imagine it's important for gaming compared to the reading speed.

EDIT AGAIN: How much wattage would you suggest from a PSU for a 7970? 550, 600 or 650?

 

[Sleepingforest]

Even 500W is enough for a 7970. Check in here before you buy though, because there's a few of good manufacturers but many bad ones. In the US, a rough rule of thumb is that a Corsair, Antec, or Seasonic 500w unit for $50 is reasonable--I'm not sure what that is in AUD after taxes and the typical markup, but there's a starting place.

 

[Splenyi]

For some reason, anything with a computer will have a considerable markup in Australia it absolutely sucks, but were trying to crack down on it (apparently). As for exchange rates, the AUS dollar is stronger than the USA dollar at the moment, which is why I was shopping on newegg, then I realised the shipping cost for items like a case will be about $30, and if I was going to shop in Australia, the Price is about the USA price + postage anyway. I'll try the local stores I suppose, and try push them for something reasonable.

In the US, a rough rule of thumb is that a Corsair, Antec, or Seasonic 500w unit for $50 is reasonable--I'm not sure what that is in AUD after taxes and the typical markup, but there's a starting place.

I was hoping to get something partly modular for a decent price though, with hopefully 80 plus gold.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Try to have the Newegg price and shipping worked out for each item to set an absolute maximum you're willing to pay for, but don't show them the screenshot right away (printed or saved on your phone). Instead, lowball a bit--try 10-15% less than the price you would pay from Newegg with shipping. If they don't take it, show them the screenshot--they'll probably try to beat it by a bit to make the sale. If they still don't make the sale, just walk away.

YOU are in power here, as long as you keep your wits with you. Try to look composed and in charge, and the salespeople will bend a bit as long as you stay forcefully polite. Bring some water to keep your voice smooth and to take an extra few seconds of thinking time between responses. Do annoying things like tapping your foot as though you're impatient with their high prices to break their concentration and make them subconsciously fear that you'll leave.

In case you're wondering, I learned these things during some cutthroat negotiating. It's come in handy ever since.

 

[Splenyi]

Wow you're good thanks for the tips.

But seems as newegg can't ship to me, I don't think I'll be able to do that. I'll just get the price without the shipping and use that, I'll figure out how to use that.

2nd thoughts, I could do just the same from pccasegear instead of newegg.....

Which I have now done updated my wishlist accordingly with what is available in Australia http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=22367246

With the following price changes:
GPU : +$35
HDD : -$5
PSU : +$20 (exact same models, but the one I got in AUS is modular... weird)
Case : +$30
RAM : +$15
Monitor: Same price, but I had to downgrade the entire thing to a VE instead of VS, with 5m
Optical Drive: +$4
SSD : -$10
Total: $89 increase

Not very happy with these price differences, but hopefully I can make up for most of it by some skilled bartering

 

[Sleepingforest]

That's actually pretty good, all things considered. Good luck!

 

[Splenyi]

Thanks, I still got another 2 weeks until I get all my money, so that's more time to fine tune my build. I thought I would base the entire thing around the CPU and GPU, I'll be fairly flexible the the rest of the pieces so I can try shave off $200 at the most, and then use some bartering to hopefully take off 10% the total price hoping big though.

 

[DSF]

As Sleepingforest said, you have to be prepared to walk away if they won't budge. If they know you're not actually going to leave, then they don't have to give you any kind of discount.

Also, don't feel the need to overexplain things. If they are used to negotiating, chances are they're going to try to get you to do most of the talking. Don't get into that trap - just let them know their price isn't good enough, and if they won't go any lower tell them you'll leave your phone number in case they can make a better offer, and walk away.

 

[Splenyi]

Ah, leaving my number and walking away, that's a good tip. Thank you.

I suppose I should haggle the price of the entire build, instead of the individual pieces?

Edit: is there actually a performance difference between mobos?

 

[lehtv]

I suppose I should haggle the price of the entire build, instead of the individual pieces?

That's a good idea, and probably more likely to succeed.

Edit: is there actually a performance difference between mobos?

If you browse some motherboard reviews you'll see there are differences in benchmarks. But they're not significant enough to notice in everyday use so I don't factor them in. The board's features, connectivity, layout and cost are what matter.

 

[Splenyi]

Well I don't need SLI/CSX, so all I need is a decent mobo that doesn't have that feature, has the dual channel RAM, and 4 RAM slots.

I was considering waiting until the Intel 1150 socket to be released, and the make my build. But then I figured I'd be better off getting the best of this generation than the worst of the next.

Do you guys think there'll be a price drop on the 1155 sockets once the 1150 are released?

edit: here is a mobo I found, would you guys suggest it, or something a little better?
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=138_1183&products_id=19865
It seems to be exactly what I'm looking for at $100, so ill be saving $35 from the extreme4

 

[DSF]

The general trend is that Intel CPUs don't drop very far in price, at least at mainstream etailers/retailers. It can be a different story on places like eBay.

The performance difference with Haswell isn't going to be make or break. If you really want to buy now it wouldn't be a regrettable decision. If you feel willing to wait, there's never harm in that in the tech world.

The Pro4 would be fine for you. I have the Pro3 because it was even cheaper and I don't need the extra drive ports.

 

[Splenyi]

Ok thanks, but I was also wondering what the difference is between the ASRock M mobos and the regular ones? The M ones are less expensive and smaller in size, but anything else?

Edit: and I think I might switch to this video card http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193_1387&products_id=20209
Right now, I think I would prefer a more efficient and powerful GPU over more GBs. Unless the power of the 7970 will be enough to play games like Skyrim and Shogon 2 Total War on 1080p on the highest possible graphics? Any idea in checking this out?

Edit: found this thread, 2nd to last post on the page http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/364675-33-what-7970-palit-jetstream
Which pretty much gives me the info I need. Apparently the 670 is quiter and it will give me higher frame rate on the games I enjoy. Its also got higher rating in reviews, and if Im picking between a Gigabyte OC GPU 670 or 7970, its practically the same price from my Aussie site
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193_1387&products_id=20209
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193_1309&products_id=19269

But then again, they are talking about the ASUS, which seems to be a special case, not the same as the Gigabyte 670, which is in my price range.

So, I still don't know between AMD or NVIDIA

 

[Sleepingforest]

mATX mobos tend to have less PCIe slots and fewer power phases (4 to 8, generally). For your use, they are perfectly fine.

Also... the 7970 is more powerful than the 670. It will thus play at the top end for long (the memory helps too). The 7970 is superior to the 670 in pretty much every way ( power, VRAM.) It either ties or beats the 670; most benchmarks you see are out of date thanks to new drivers on both sides.

 

[Splenyi]

Ah, well that clears is up, thanks one question thought: why do you use a EVGA 670 (according to your signature) if you think 7970 is better?

 

[Sleepingforest]

I had some strict size and heat restraints. I think the cheapest 7970 was too long at the time, and runs somewhat hotter. Since my 670 was on a significant sale, I rolled with it.

 

[Splenyi]

Ah ok, thanks.

You don't think I'll come under similar restraints?

 

[Sleepingforest]

No. Your case is much bigger with more fans.

 

[Splenyi]

Good news, thank you

But I got some really bad news. Check out the local dealers custom builds
http://www.pczone.com.au/desktops.html
The worse thing is the price, second worse thing is what they put in them for that price!

If their website is updated regularly, then I'll probably have trouble getting retail price at the least.