Lowest math scores in the nation goes to...

[Craig234]

+1

+0: the usefulness of your 'contribution', the word used loosely like 'contribution ' to a toilet.

 

[Lakedaimon]

Well, the gross money seems fine, but after everyone embezzles it and whatnot, there's probably like half, lolcake. God, Detroit is just that bad, it's seriously THAT bad. That's what my state is known for anyways I guess, Detroit.

Yeah ive heard that Detroit Public Schools spends over 40% of their budget "outside of the classroom" i.e. on administration. I think the administrative offices had lavish furniture budgets - new carpet every year - and something like over a million dollars worth of artwork. While schools a few miles away had no textbooks and were asking students to bring their own toilet paper.

Now there is a ray of hope. The state appointed an emergency administrator named Robert Bobb who has been cleaning house. He's got former FBI agents sifting through the books and is finding millions in waste. He made all employees actually show up to physically collect their paychecks one week and found out there were over 200 fake employees who didnt exist and were eating up millions each year out of the budget. Found out that when the district when to buy a plot of land for a new magnet high school, the property was sold and resold 7 times the day before the district grossly overpaid for it. The district leased 3 floors of office space in a building for more than the cost of the building itself.

Just handing a district like this more "no strings attached" cash by the truckload isnt the answer. You need to put some of these scumbags in prison and find some real educators.

 

[werepossum]

Yeah ive heard that Detroit Public Schools spends over 40% of their budget "outside of the classroom" i.e. on administration. I think the administrative offices had lavish furniture budgets - new carpet every year - and something like over a million dollars worth of artwork. While schools a few miles away had no textbooks and were asking students to bring their own toilet paper.

Now there is a ray of hope. The state appointed an emergency administrator named Robert Bobb who has been cleaning house. He's got former FBI agents sifting through the books and is finding millions in waste. He made all employees actually show up to physically collect their paychecks one week and found out there were over 200 fake employees who didnt exist and were eating up millions each year out of the budget. Found out that when the district when to buy a plot of land for a new magnet high school, the property was sold and resold 7 times the day before the district grossly overpaid for it. The district leased 3 floors of office space in a building for more than the cost of the building itself.

Just handing a district like this more "no strings attached" cash by the truckload isnt the answer. You need to put some of these scumbags in prison and find some real educators.

Cool. Always nice to hear about some accountability in government.

 

[piasabird]

Went to school at the Overseas School of Rome, Italy while my father was in the military in the 70's. I took Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II, Trigonometry and Analytic Geometry. Cant say I was an A Student. Also cant really say I used much of that in real life. When you go to the store you dont need to use much algebra.

I can say if you do not take Geometry in high school with a grade of C or better, that to graduate from any program in the community college where I work, you must take Geometry and receive a C or better. As universities go they vary greatly about what level of Math they require for graduation.

Geometry and Statistics are very good types of mathematics that teach people to think differently and approach problems from different points of view. You may not even realize this.

I dont see how a high school like that can possibly be accredited??

 

[werepossum]

Went to school at the Overseas School of Rome, Italy while my father was in the military in the 70's. I took Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II, Trigonometry and Analytic Geometry. Cant say I was an A Student. Also cant really say I used much of that in real life. When you go to the store you dont need to use much algebra.

I can say if you do not take Geometry in high school with a grade of C or better, that to graduate from any program in the community college where I work, you must take Geometry and receive a C or better. As universities go they vary greatly about what level of Math they require for graduation.

Geometry and Statistics are very good types of mathematics that teach people to think differently and approach problems from different points of view. You may not even realize this.

I dont see how a high school like that can possibly be accredited??

It's a government school. As long as they don't set on fire a significant percentage of the student body, accreditation is automatic.

 

[F1N3ST]

Then there's freaking uhh what's it called.... affirmative action, where the minorities with piss-poor grades can get into colleges and scholarships, where whites don't.

 

[F1N3ST]

+0: the usefulness of your 'contribution', the word used loosely like 'contribution ' to a toilet.

 

[TruePaige]

America's priorities sure are ass backwards sometimes.

Throw tons of money at the lowest achievers in the nation hoping that they will do halfway decent.

Let the best and brightest stagnate in schools doing their damn best with minimal funding because they try hard already and must not need any money for decent labs, infrastructure and software to help them get even further ahead where they could benefit the nation.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

America's priorities sure are ass backwards sometimes.

Throw tons of money at the lowest achievers in the nation hoping that they will do halfway decent.

Let the best and brightest stagnate in schools doing their damn best with minimal funding because they try hard already and must not need any money for decent labs, infrastructure and software to help them get even further ahead where they could benefit the nation.

Like I said, in NY they want to take a tenth of what we pay for education to fund other unsustainable programs.

Rather ironic that people who complain about other people's wealth take away from everyone's education. We had people who wanted to get a grip on it, but the Dems here depend on keeping people dependent.

Would the Reps have do any better? That would depend on how greedy they were for more and more without caring about consequences.

It would be nice to have a competent party putting the interests of those who pay them ahead of avarice and lust for power, but that will never happen. All choices are bad.

 

[TruePaige]

Like I said, in NY they want to take a tenth of what we pay for education to fund other unsustainable programs.

Rather ironic that people who complain about other people's wealth take away from everyone's education. We had people who wanted to get a grip on it, but the Dems here depend on keeping people dependent.

Would the Reps have do any better? That would depend on how greedy they were for more and more without caring about consequences.

It would be nice to have a competent party putting the interests of those who pay them ahead of avarice and lust for power, but that will never happen. All choices are bad.

You make me bellow with laughter.

 

[F1N3ST]

You make me bellow with laughter.

A hearty Santa laugh?

 

[TruePaige]

A hearty Santa laugh?

Yup, like a bipolar Santa off his meds with nothing but coal in his bag.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yup, like a bipolar Santa off his meds with nothing but coal in his bag.

I find your idea fascinating and would like to subscribe to your newsletter!

 

[TruePaige]

I find your idea fascinating and would like to subscribe to your newsletter!

Sorry, my naughty or nice stationary set got burned up in the fire.

Giving the bad kids of the world a highly flammable rock turned out to be a not so bright idea.

 

[Train]

Why learn? You don't need an education to live in Detroit.

All you need to know is vote democrat, not work, profit.

 

[0marTheZealot]

America's priorities sure are ass backwards sometimes.

Throw tons of money at the lowest achievers in the nation hoping that they will do halfway decent.

Let the best and brightest stagnate in schools doing their damn best with minimal funding because they try hard already and must not need any money for decent labs, infrastructure and software to help them get even further ahead where they could benefit the nation.

It's not even that. Look at charter schools. They have ~1/3rd or less the money spent per child but their students routinely hit the top 10% or higher in nearly every case. Charter schools in the inner city do approximately as well as suburban schools, schools that have 4, 5, even 6 times as much money per student.

It boils down to priorities and implementation. If teachers underperform at a charter school, they are gone, simple as that. Highly skilled teachers make a huge difference, no matter what anyone says. That's just one difference between charter schools and public schools. There's a whole slew of them and for the most part, they make perfect sense.

I mean, just think back on your school career, there were some teachers you didn't learn jack from because they plain sucked. I didn't properly learn calculus until graduate school because my calc professors sucked. Once I had a decent teacher, I caught calculus quick as hell.

The reason why charter schools don't catch on? The power of the teachers' unions, administration bureaucracy and other garbage like that. Like I said before, republicans don't want to change the system because it'll be seen as a democrat move and because we'll be adopting some of the things that work in other countries. If it works in other countries, you can be sure republicans will block every attempt to emulate them. On the other hand, democrats will block the move because the teachers' unions will block every attempt to reform the system. The administration unions and lobbys will block the moves to preserve their cushy jobs and fat pensions. It's an unwinnable situation for America's children.

 

[Patranus]

This has nothing to do with money. It all starts with the parent.
Parents are involved if they are sending their kid to a charter school.
(funny how the Democrats are against charter schools)

In any event, the reason charter schools work is because they embody the free market. They offer real choice and competition to the government.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Simple solution. Offer $5000 for any man in Detroit (nationally would be better) who gets a vasectomy. Offer $10K for any woman of child bearing age who gets her tubes tied (more invasive surgery warranting bigger payout). Sliding scale for folks who already parents. Lots of folks who have no business having kids will take the money, saving the taxpayers far more than the cost of the program.

Requiring parental performance bonds would also be good. Fining parents for raising worthless kids might improve things.

The eugenics folks like to be a bit more subtle than this.

 

[0marTheZealot]

This has nothing to do with money. It all starts with the parent.
Parents are involved if they are sending their kid to a charter school.

That's not true. When you compare the winners of the charter school lottery and those who did not win (in effect, taking out the parent part of the equation, since in both cases, they were involved enough to enter and hope for the lottery to go their way), charter school students are heads and shoulders above their peers who did not get in.

 

[werepossum]

That's not true. When you compare the winners of the charter school lottery and those who did not win (in effect, taking out the parent part of the equation, since in both cases, they were involved enough to enter and hope for the lottery to go their way), charter school students are heads and shoulders above their peers who did not get in.

Actually it is true. Those kids who won the charter school lottery are in a school filled with other kids whose parents also cared, also a school from which you can get expelled for bad behavior. Those kids who did not win the charter school lottery are in a school filled with other kids whose parents did not care, a school from which you almost can't be expelled or even seriously punished for bad behavior. At the least this dilutes their affect on the average test score; at the most this exposes these kids to disruptive and often dangerous behavior which virtually brings classroom progress (i.e. teaching) to a halt and thereby lowers their grades and test scores as well.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Actually it is true. Those kids who won the charter school lottery are in a school filled with other kids whose parents also cared, also a school from which you can get expelled for bad behavior. Those kids who did not win the charter school lottery are in a school filled with other kids whose parents did not care, a school from which you almost can't be expelled or even seriously punished for bad behavior. At the least this dilutes their affect on the average test score; at the most this exposes these kids to disruptive and often dangerous behavior which virtually brings classroom progress (i.e. teaching) to a halt and thereby lowers their grades and test scores as well.

Remember, the study compared lottery winners vs lottery losers, not schools. The effect of parenting should be approximately equal, leaving only the quality of the school as the sole measure of student's progress.

 

[OCGuy]

Im shocked!

 

[werepossum]

Remember, the study compared lottery winners vs lottery losers, not schools. The effect of parenting should be approximately equal, leaving only the quality of the school as the sole measure of student's progress.

I wasn't disagreeing with you that the charter schools are better schools, just pointing out that what Patranus said was also correct in that the advantage of charter schools is largely in the parents who care enough to send their children there. There are several other advantages to charter schools, but I think the parents are probably the major one. Parents who care enough to send their children to charter schools but cannot get them in should still provide an advantage, just not enough to overcome the other factors in the standard government schools.

 

[Lakedaimon]

A few years back a philanthropist actually offered to spend $100,000,000 building brand new charter schools in the city. However there were strict limits on the number of charters at the time and the school board and teachers union vowed to use every ounce of influence to make anyone in favor of the plan unelectable, and the city said thanks but no thanks.

Saw a message on a local forum today from a teacher in DPS. Just had Parent/Teacher conferences this week and said that out of 170 students exactly 4 parents showed up. Said the only time she usually talks to parents is when their kid gets a F and freaks out about it wondering why they werent contacted ahead of time, but mail sent to the house is returned undelivered and phone numbers are all disconnected.

 

[werepossum]

A few years back a philanthropist actually offered to spend $100,000,000 building brand new charter schools in the city. However there were strict limits on the number of charters at the time and the school board and teachers union vowed to use every ounce of influence to make anyone in favor of the plan unelectable, and the city said thanks but no thanks.

Saw a message on a local forum today from a teacher in DPS. Just had Parent/Teacher conferences this week and said that out of 170 students exactly 4 parents showed up. Said the only time she usually talks to parents is when their kid gets a F and freaks out about it wondering why they werent contacted ahead of time, but mail sent to the house is returned undelivered and phone numbers are all disconnected.

You can lead a horse to water but if its parents are too stupid to teach it to drink . . .