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5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,559
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www.techinferno.com
Nobody is denying that Blacks suffered discrimination for a long period of time. However, that has long since been over yet their attitude towards hard work and education is consistent--not only in the US but globally. I gave you my example of living in Antigua for 1.5 years. The people there are completely independent and very inept. By the way, what about the reverse discrimination blacks practice towards whites and other groups? I'm not even White, I'm an Afghan so don't talk to me about discrimination. My parents came to the US as immigrants and became very successful. The same can be said of the myriad of Asian families that come here and succeed with the odds against them. What excuse do blacks that have been here for generations? What about the blacks in the Caribbean, why do they have similar attitudes?

The slavery card can only carry you so far before it crumbles when faced with facts. In this case, yes discrimination exists, not only for blacks but for several other groups: Jews, Muslims (probably the most discriminated group right now), Indians etc. Yet the group with the highest rate of failure in the U.S. and abroad is consistently Black. Why is that Craig?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Math and science isn't really pushed by black community IME but sports and arts. to each their own. Maybe some cultures value different things is that a bad thing? I don't think so unless it infringes on another and certainly no reason to disparage a whole race because of it.

This is a tech board so it does not surprise me many of you nerds can't see value in sports and arts.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Nobody is denying that Blacks suffered discrimination for a long period of time. However, that has long since been over yet their attitude towards hard work and education is consistent--not only in the US but globally. I gave you my example of living in Antigua for 1.5 years. The people there are completely independent and very inept. By the way, what about the reverse discrimination blacks practice towards whites and other groups? I'm not even White, I'm an Afghan so don't talk to me about discrimination. My parents came to the US as immigrants and became very successful. The same can be said of the myriad of Asian families that come here and succeed with the odds against them. What excuse do blacks that have been here for generations? What about the blacks in the Caribbean, why do they have similar attitudes?

The slavery card can only carry you so far before it crumbles when faced with facts. In this case, yes discrimination exists, not only for blacks but for several other groups: Jews, Muslims (probably the most discriminated group right now), Indians etc. Yet the group with the highest rate of failure in the U.S. and abroad is consistently Black. Why is that Craig?

You're not ready for the answer. The fact that the core of the message I posted was that you don't understand the effects of centuries of discrimination their group experienced in the US, and you responded with how your Afghan immigrant parents - Afghans not having gone through the centuries of discrimination in the US I described - shows how you are not listening to the most basic and clear answer. You're just tuning it out and repeating your pre-existing opinion, not looking for any answer to your 'question' that's really a statement, not a question.

The fact that I point out to you that there is massive research on the issue you allege over racial inferiority and suggest you get a little informed and you cmpletely ignore that, says you aren't too interested.

But maybe for a change of pace we can have an ignorance-based discussion on the inferiority of the Afghan race, given how backwards their country is, needing all these handouts of help from the US now.

By the way, you didn't notice any contradiction between your allegations of 'lazy' with your description of black women in the Caribbean walking miles to get wood and doing all the hard work?

You don't quite notice the conflict between 'lazy' and the history that slaves did all the manual labor pretty much in the US South for centuries, building it up, that millions of blacks are the ones doing the 'hard work' jobs today in our country, millions you ignore as you only look at the sub-culture problems and falsely represent them as the only group of blacks that exist in the US?

You are ignorant of how blacks put in similar situations with whites from birth contradict your speculations.

That the problem has more to do with not enough blacks having that equality, something you show no concern for at all while you are quick to make racist speculations.

Such bad logic - can we rush to judgement that it's a racial infoeriority of your race?
 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,559
0
71
www.techinferno.com
You're not ready for the answer. The fact that the core of the message I posted was that you don't understand the effects of centuries of discrimination their group experienced in the US, and you responded with how your Afghan immigrant parents - Afghans not having gone through the centuries of discrimination in the US I described - shows how you are not listening to the most basic and clear answer. You're just tuning it out and repeating your pre-existing opinion, not looking for any answer to your 'question' that's really a statement, not a question.

You keep talking about discrimination and slavery, something other races throughout history have experienced. It's in no way unique to blacks like how you paint it.

But maybe for a change of pace we can have an ignorance-based discussion on the inferiority of the Afghan race, given how backwards their country is, needing all these handouts of help from the US now.

The Afghan issue is a clear cut one: The country went through a major war with the USSR, was decimated in the process and was left with a power vacuum that was exploited by Islamic jihadists.

By the way, you didn't notice any contradiction between your allegations of 'lazy' with your description of black women in the Caribbean walking miles to get wood and doing all the hard work?

It wasn't black women in the Caribbean that walked miles for fire wood, it was the one's in Africa. The point I was trying to make for you, which you dismissed as racism, was that this attitude of laziness and apathy towards education seems to be endemic to African culture globally. I talked about the Caribbean as a personal anecdote because I lived there for 1.5 years and saw first hand how lazy and frankly dumb the people there were and they didn't have racism holding them back like you maintain.

You don't quite notice the conflict between 'lazy' and the history that slaves did all the manual labor pretty much in the US South for centuries, building it up, that millions of blacks are the ones doing the 'hard work' jobs today in our country, millions you ignore as you only look at the sub-culture problems and falsely represent them as the only group of blacks that exist in the US?

Again, nobody is denying the fact that blacks were subject to intense racism and slavery. That happened just like the Holocaust happened to Jews or how the USSR destroyed Afghanistan (I just had to throw that in there). How is that holding back the Blacks of Detroit today?

You are ignorant of how blacks put in similar situations with whites from birth contradict your speculations.

The only white guy that I know of who was in a similar situation as some blacks was Eminem and he seems to be doing okay. ;)
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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It was all to easy for ignorant whites to blame the effects of discrimination on racial inferiority in the past, and it still is.

You say it's 'worth considering' the role of racial inferiority. Many experts have thoroughly investigated the issue for dcades. Have you researched the findings? No? That's what's called 'ignorance'.

Inferiority has nothing to do with it, differences do and there is hot debates right now in science community of how to handle these PROVEN differences.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/us/11dna.html?_r=4&hp=&pagewanted=all
In DNA Era, New Worries About Prejudice


By AMY HARMON
Published: November 11, 2007

Correction Appended

When scientists first decoded the human genome in 2000, they were quick to portray it as proof of humankind’s remarkable similarity. The DNA of any two people, they emphasized, is at least 99 percent identical.
But new research is exploring the remaining fraction to explain differences between people of different continental origins.

Scientists, for instance, have recently identified small changes in DNA that account for the pale skin of Europeans, the tendency of Asians to sweat less and West Africans’ resistance to certain diseases.

At the same time, genetic information is slipping out of the laboratory and into everyday life, carrying with it the inescapable message that people of different races have different DNA. Ancestry tests tell customers what percentage of their genes are from Asia, Europe, Africa and the Americas. The heart-disease drug BiDil is marketed exclusively to African-Americans, who seem genetically predisposed to respond to it. Jews are offered prenatal tests for genetic disorders rarely found in other ethnic groups.

Such developments are providing some of the first tangible benefits of the genetic revolution. Yet some social critics fear they may also be giving long-discredited racial prejudices a new potency. The notion that race is more than skin deep, they fear, could undermine principles of equal treatment and opportunity that have relied on the presumption that we are all fundamentally equal.

“We are living through an era of the ascendance of biology, and we have to be very careful,” said Henry Louis Gates Jr., director of the W. E. B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research at Harvard University. “We will all be walking a fine line between using biology and allowing it to be abused.”

Certain superficial traits like skin pigmentation have long been presumed to be genetic. But the ability to pinpoint their DNA source makes the link between genes and race more palpable. And on mainstream blogs, in college classrooms and among the growing community of ancestry test-takers, it is prompting the question of whether more profound differences may also be attributed to DNA.

Nonscientists are already beginning to stitch together highly speculative conclusions about the historically charged subject of race and intelligence from the new biological data. Last month, a blogger in Manhattan described a recently published study that linked several snippets of DNA to high I.Q. An online genetic database used by medical researchers, he told readers, showed that two of the snippets were found more often in Europeans and Asians than in Africans.

No matter that the link between I.Q. and those particular bits of DNA was unconfirmed, or that other high I.Q. snippets are more common in Africans, or that hundreds or thousands of others may also affect intelligence, or that their combined influence might be dwarfed by environmental factors. Just the existence of such genetic differences between races, proclaimed the author of the Half Sigma blog, a 40-year-old software developer, means “the egalitarian theory,” that all races are equal, “is proven false.”

Though few of the bits of human genetic code that vary between individuals have yet to be tied to physical or behavioral traits, scientists have found that roughly 10 percent of them are more common in certain continental groups and can be used to distinguish people of different races. They say that studying the differences, which arose during the tens of thousands of years that human populations evolved on separate continents after their ancestors dispersed from humanity’s birthplace in East Africa, is crucial to mapping the genetic basis for disease.

But many geneticists, wary of fueling discrimination and worried that speaking openly about race could endanger support for their research, are loath to discuss the social implications of their findings. Still, some acknowledge that as their data and methods are extended to nonmedical traits, the field is at what one leading researcher recently called “a very delicate time, and a dangerous time.”

“There are clear differences between people of different continental ancestries,” said Marcus W. Feldman, a professor of biological sciences at Stanford University. “It’s not there yet for things like I.Q., but I can see it coming. And it has the potential to spark a new era of racism if we do not start explaining it better.”

Dr. Feldman said any finding on intelligence was likely to be exceedingly hard to pin down. But given that some may emerge, he said he wanted to create “ready response teams” of geneticists to put such socially fraught discoveries in perspective.

The authority that DNA has earned through its use in freeing falsely convicted inmates, preventing disease and reconstructing family ties leads people to wrongly elevate genetics over other explanations for differences between groups.

“I’ve spent the last 10 years of my life researching how much genetic variability there is between populations,” said Dr. David Altshuler, director of the Program in Medical and Population Genetics at the Broad Institute in Cambridge, Mass. “But living in America, it is so clear that the economic and social and educational differences have so much more influence than genes. People just somehow fixate on genetics, even if the influence is very small.”

But on the Half Sigma blog and elsewhere, the conversation is already flashing forward to what might happen if genetically encoded racial differences in socially desirable — or undesirable — traits are identified.

“If I were to believe the ‘facts’ in this post, what should I do?” one reader responded on Half Sigma. “Should I advocate discrimination against blacks because they are less smart? Should I not hire them to my company because odds are I could find a smarter white person? Stop trying to prove that one group of people are genetically inferior to your group. Just stop.”

Renata McGriff, 52, a health care consultant who had been encouraging black clients to volunteer genetic information to scientists, said she and other African-Americans have lately been discussing “opting out of genetic research until it’s clear we’re not going to use science to validate prejudices.”

“I don’t want the children in my family to be born thinking they are less than someone else based on their DNA,” added Ms. McGriff, of Manhattan.

Such discussions are among thousands that followed the geneticist James D. Watson’s assertion last month that Africans are innately less intelligent than other races. Dr. Watson, a Nobel Prize winner, subsequently apologized and quit his post at the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory on Long Island.

But the incident has added to uneasiness about whether society is prepared to handle the consequences of science that may eventually reveal appreciable differences between races in the genes that influence socially important traits.

New genetic information, some liberal critics say, could become the latest rallying point for a conservative political camp that objects to social policies like affirmative action, as happened with “The Bell Curve,” the controversial 1994 book that examined the relationship between race and I.Q.

Yet even some self-described liberals argue that accepting that there may be genetic differences between races is important in preparing to address them politically.

“Let’s say the genetic data says we’ll have to spend two times as much for every black child to close the achievement gap,” said Jason Malloy, 28, an artist in Madison, Wis., who wrote a defense of Dr. Watson for the widely read science blog Gene Expression. Society, he said, would need to consider how individuals “can be given educational and occupational opportunities that work best for their unique talents and limitations.”

Others hope that the genetic data may overturn preconceived notions of racial superiority by, for example, showing that Africans are innately more intelligent than other groups. But either way, the increased outpouring of conversation on the normally taboo subject of race and genetics has prompted some to suggest that innate differences should be accepted but, at some level, ignored.

“Regardless of any such genetic variation, it is our moral duty to treat all as equal before God and before the law,” Perry Clark, 44, wrote on a New York Times blog. It is not necessary, argued Dr. Clark, a retired neonatologist in Leawood, Kan., who is white, to maintain the pretense that inborn racial differences do not exist.

“When was the last time a nonblack sprinter won the Olympic 100 meters?” he asked.

“To say that such differences aren’t real,” Dr. Clark later said in an interview, “is to stick your head in the sand and go blah blah blah blah blah until the band marches by.”

Race, many sociologists and anthropologists have argued for decades, is a social invention historically used to justify prejudice and persecution. But when Samuel M. Richards gave his students at Pennsylvania State University genetic ancestry tests to establish the imprecision of socially constructed racial categories, he found the exercise reinforced them instead.

One white-skinned student, told she was 9 percent West African, went to a Kwanzaa celebration, for instance, but would not dream of going to an Asian cultural event because her DNA did not match, Dr. Richards said. Preconceived notions of race seemed all the more authentic when quantified by DNA.

“Before, it was, ‘I’m white because I have white skin and grew up in white culture,’ ” Dr. Richards said. “Now it’s, ‘I really know I’m white, so white is this big neon sign hanging over my head.’ It’s like, oh, no, come on. That wasn’t the point.”
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
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One white-skinned student, told she was 9 percent West African, went to a Kwanzaa celebration, for instance, but would not dream of going to an Asian cultural event because her DNA did not match, Dr. Richards said. Preconceived notions of race seemed all the more authentic when quantified by DNA.
...
This seems much more interesting and useful than the dna question.

Medical fact can be fluid. In the 70s, eggs were bad for you and now they're not. Butter, margarine, sugar, artificial sweeteners, meat, etc. have all been bad at one time or another.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Craig, I didn't feel like reading all of what you posted after I read the first half. It seemed like you just rambled on almost incoherently without directly addressing my point.

A number of other oppressed racial and cultural groups have improved their lots here in the U.S.--Jews, Asians, Irish, Italians, Cubans, Hispanics, etc. Knowledge of how to live--good, functional philosophy--isn't that hard to come by. I suspect that much of this really will be proven to boil down to an inheritable intelligence factor.

What do you suggest we do to help the Black people, Craig? Would impoverished black communities benefit from having some form of dictatorship imposed on them where drugs and alcohol wouldn't be allowed to get to them and where people would be sterilized after having a child or two? What if high school dropouts and troublemakers were made to work at collective farms and factories? I really doubt that throwing money at these people is the answer.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
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Inferiority has nothing to do with it, differences do and there is hot debates right now in science community of how to handle these PROVEN differences.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/us/11dna.html?_r=4&hp=&pagewanted=all
In DNA Era, New Worries About Prejudice


By AMY HARMON
Published: November 11, 2007

Correction Appended

When scientists first decoded the human genome in 2000, they were quick to portray it as proof of humankind’s remarkable similarity. The DNA of any two people, they emphasized, is at least 99 percent identical.
But new research is exploring the remaining fraction to explain differences between people of different continental origins.

SNIPPED FOR LENGTH
Good post. I suspect there may be genetic influences on IQ, just as on athletic or musical ability, but the vast majority of us perform far below our potential. I daresay you'd find few blacks in inner city Detroit hell without the basic intelligence to function as an architect, engineer, doctor, university professor, or other traditionally high IQ trade if properly motivated and taught from a young age. Whatever genetic variations may (or may not) exist pale in view of our huge cultural and individual variations.

Also, having taken many, many IQ tests from a young age I can testify that even the best depend to some extent on what you already know rather than what you can deduce. As long as blacks are culturally discouraged from academics and limited by crushingly poor schools, IQ tests will always show a bias whether one exists or not, which makes it hard to discern any genetic variance. Kind of makes it not worth the trouble to study, I'd say.
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
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Good post. I suspect there may be genetic influences on IQ, just as on athletic or musical ability, but the vast majority of us perform far below our potential. I daresay you'd find few blacks in inner city Detroit hell without the basic intelligence to function as an architect, engineer, doctor, university professor, or other traditionally high IQ trade if properly motivated and taught from a young age. Whatever genetic variations may (or may not) exist pale in view of our huge cultural and individual variations.

Also, having taken many, many IQ tests from a young age I can testify that even the best depend to some extent on what you already know rather than what you can deduce. As long as blacks are culturally discouraged from academics and limited by crushingly poor schools, IQ tests will always show a bias whether one exists or not, which makes it hard to discern any genetic variance. Kind of makes it not worth the trouble to study, I'd say.
Good post. I have to wonder about the agenda of people who have been obsessed with finding differences over the years. They don't seem to describe it as differences either. They seem to start out with the assumption that one race will be inferior as compared to another. They're just out to prove by how much.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
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San Francisco is what happens when you let liberals run the place for 50 years straight unabated.

Fixed. And Mississippi/Alabama/non-Austin Texas are what happens when you let Republicans run it.

And the Great Depression and 2008 crash are what happen when Libertarians run things/

Absent any government regulation representing the public = wealth concentrating more and more and society being forced to serve those few until you have another third world country.



Are fucking kidding me? LOL -You don't live in San Francisco let alone the Bay Area so please don't run your mouth because you sound clueless. Did you know? That in the school year of 2007-2008 the majority drops were AA and Latino students did not pass the high school equivalency test in order to earn a high school diploma in San Francisco? Granted we have a lot of out district AA and Latino students attending SF schools from liberal run paradises such as Richmond and Oakland, California who are probably to blame for the dropout rate. Of course legally these kids who do not live in the city should not even be attending SF schools unless they have IEP but the left leaning School Board and SF politicians see fit to ignore this oversight in order to use these out of district students as political means to an end to push their leftist political agenda in our schools.

So as a result SF schools have consistently fallen behind in test scores ever since the city has been dominated by Democrats in the last 40 years. Of the handful of schools not seeing a great decline most are located in heavily home owning areas dominated by Asian and White families. Yet before you cry racism you should understand that I am not Asian or White so "Chillax" with racism card.
 
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TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
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It's a race and culture issue. Culture affects how race is portrayed and perceived. Thus any race issue is also a culture issue.

This thread just sucks. It's way too long and full of obvious trolls like SunSamurai(Who should be banned).
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Good post. I have to wonder about the agenda of people who have been obsessed with finding differences over the years. They don't seem to describe it as differences either. They seem to start out with the assumption that one race will be inferior as compared to another. They're just out to prove by how much.

You might say that, based on observable facts, they are just trying to find explanations for what they perceive to be the facts so that society might be better able to design effective policies for addressing the facts. For example, why is Africa a mess? Why are most black-managed large cities (like Detroit) a mess? Why were other minority groups able to pull themselves up while facing racial and religious adversity? I don't know the answer though I have my suspicions.

What would happen if it were factually determined that indeed there are racial disparities in IQ amongst groups of people, such as Asians having slightly higher IQs on average than caucasians and Ashkenazi Jews having the highest average IQs of all. Might it have some sort of an effect on social policies? Might it lead to more effective ways of helping groups of people who, as a group, have lower IQs? Perhaps policies that are successful for people with higher IQs might not be so successful for groups with lower IQs?

I know it isn't a warm-n-fuzzy thing to think about and it's very very politically incorrect and that we should shame anyone who says anything like that into submission and perhaps even jail them for racism, but what if it's factual? Then what? Should we pretend that A is not A?

I'm not saying that it is or isn't true, I don't know the answer; I'm just posing the question for us to think about.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Are fucking kidding me? LOL -You don't live in San Francisco let alone the Bay Area so please don't run your mouth because you sound clueless. Did you know? That in the school year of 2007-2008 the majority drops were AA and Latino students did not pass the high school equivalency test in order to earn a high school diploma in San Francisco? Granted we have a lot of out district AA and Latino students attending SF schools from liberal run paradises such as Richmond and Oakland, California who are probably to blame for the dropout rate. Of course legally these kids who do not live in the city should not even be attending SF schools unless they have IEP but the left leaning School Board and SF politicians see fit to ignore this oversight in order to use these out of district students as political means to an end to push their leftist political agenda in our schools.

So as a result SF schools have consistently fallen behind in test scores ever since the city has been dominated by Democrats in the last 40 years. Of the handful of schools not seeing a great decline most are located in heavily home owning areas dominated by Asian and White families. Yet before you cry racism you should understand that I am not Asian or White so "Chillax" with racism card.

I've had way too many posts make up my position wrongly, but you are the first I recall who makes up where I live wrongly. The rest of your post - so you are not too understanding of racism's legacy, like most are not. You look at the harmful effects, don't recognize them for what they are, and at best make up reasons with phony answer, and more likely don't even try for answers and just point fingers at the blacks.

This is not a simple issue. If you would get info from the district on the actual effects of its policies, you might find that blacks are doing better as a result, even while still not doing nearly well enough.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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Good post. I have to wonder about the agenda of people who have been obsessed with finding differences over the years. They don't seem to describe it as differences either. They seem to start out with the assumption that one race will be inferior as compared to another. They're just out to prove by how much.
Thank you. I think that if I were doing genetic research I would concentrate on genetic differences in disease immunity, which promises new therapies, rather than genetic differences in IQ which may not even exist. Nothing wrong with knowledge for its own sake, but there is so much room for helpful research in human genetics that it just seems foolish to me to concentrate on something trivial.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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I've had way too many posts make up my position wrongly, but you are the first I recall who makes up where I live wrongly. The rest of your post - so you are not too understanding of racism's legacy, like most are not. You look at the harmful effects, don't recognize them for what they are, and at best make up reasons with phony answer, and more likely don't even try for answers and just point fingers at the blacks.

This is not a simple issue. If you would get info from the district on the actual effects of its policies, you might find that blacks are doing better as a result, even while still not doing nearly well enough.

SF schools are trash and there's about 20 other places in the Bay that your kids could do better in. Lowell is plain awesome though, I'll give you that, but it's a special school after all and it's crowded with Asians. But if you expect the rest of SF like "Sacred Heart" or Galileo to compete with the top notch high schools in the Bay Area like Gunn, Monta Vista, Lynbrook, Saratoga, and Leland, you gotta be kidding. Sorry.

Culture and parenting has everything to do with this. If your parents care, they'll freaking be teaching their own kids. They'll send them to other schools or to other tutoring. I don't think we finished calculus and jumped our local JCs to take math classes in senior year because we had parents who let us fvck around in high school.

Socioeconomics is huge also, but there are public schools out there with plenty of poor people that do quite well. But I suspect it's because the rich group in there are so powerful and can lobby for so much that the school gets pushed up. Case in point: UC system. We cater to the entire state, but it's the rich white and smart asians who push the school to the top. Meanwhile, the same people protesting on UC campuses and trashing buildings and taking them over and fighting with the cops are the ones failing and dropping out.... and I will laugh at them when they pump gas for me 10 years later.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
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Every mayor in Detroit has been a Democrat since 1962. 48 years of failed policies. 48 years of decline. 48 years of promising that the next election will be the one to pull the residents out of poverty. Entitlement programs galore. Encouraging people not to work but to feed at the public trough. Every single mayor for 48 years. Therein lies the problem.

Every mayor for 48 years has had the mindset that the people need a hand-out. No mayor has thought to give a hand-up. Generation after generation suckling at the public teat. A grand social experiment - an utter failure.

This thread is about lower math scores. Who needs to know math when the government gives money to your Granddad, your Papa, your Mama, your Uncle, your sister and her kids too? Why learn math when you know there's a check out there for you one day?
 
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Boomerang, quite frankly, I don't think there's much that even the perfect mayor could do. The problem is not primarily the city governance, but rather the people being governed. (People who, I believe, have a genetic predisposition to having a lower IQ on average.) The city governance is merely a reflection of the people.

What do you propose that the perfect mayor do to fix Detroit? I don't see anything that could be done within the law to do that. I guess I would push for birth control, mandatory birth control for women on welfare, and city-funded and encouraged abortion. Then I'd also try to come up with a plan to encourage, perhaps financially, the poor and the gang bangers to permanently relocate out of Michigan. Then I'd put "STRESS" back on the streets, a program where law enforcement stalks criminals by having some police officers pose as victims while having other police nearby with the hopes of being able to kill assailants in the act.

However, I can't imagine that I'd actually be able to implement any of those policies, legally. So, what do you think the perfect mayor could actually do, legally, to fix the City?
 
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Here are some interesting links about IQ:

Why Africa is Africa and Haiti Haiti--map showing worldwide IQ measurements: http://www.vdare.com/misc/rushton_african_iq_map.htm Story here: http://www.vdare.com/misc/rushton_african_iq.htm

Critics of the finding that the average African IQ is 70 say that it simply must be wrong. They insist that biased testing procedures must have been used, even though dozens of separate studies have corroborated the results from East, West, Central, and Southern Africa. For Example, one 1992 study carried out for the World Bank reported that a random sample of 1,639 adolescents in the West African country of Ghana had an average IQ of 60.

In 1998, I went to Johannesburg, South Africa, to initiate a 5-year series of IQ studies in the university system to determine whether such a low IQ was accurate. I, too, wondered how well all the previous data had been collected, if sufficient care were taken in giving instructions, ensuring motivation, having a quiet room for testing, or giving enough time to complete the tests.

-------

We found African university students averaged an IQ of 84. In some studies, by other researchers, they have scored lower (IQ = 77). In still others of our studies, highly-selected engineering students who took math and science courses in high school scored higher (IQ = 103).

Assuming that, like university students elsewhere, the African university students on average score 15 points above the general population, the African general population average of about 70 would appear to be corroborated.


For others who are interested in reading more about race, geography, and IQ, here is a link to a search of various articles about it:

http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=IQ&sp-a=sp0a298a00&sp-advanced=1%2F&sp-p=phrase&sp-w-control=1%2F&sp-d=custom&sp-date-range=-1&sp-start-month=0&sp-start-day=0&sp-start-year=&sp-end-month=0&sp-end-day=0&sp-end-year=&sp-x=title&sp-c=25&sp-m=1&sp-s=0

Warning--that subject matter may be very uncomfortable for some.

What if, in reality, the genetically-inherited average IQ of Detroit school children were 85 or 90? What kinds of policy implications would that have? Instead of focusing on educating those kids might we instead try to stratify them with the smarter ones receiving a regular education and with the ones with lower IQs receiving education focused on helping them to learn some sort of a trade and to learn how to behave in society? Might we get better overall results for Detroit schoolchildren that way?
 
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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
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Boomerang, quite frankly, I don't think there's much that even the perfect mayor could do. The problem is not primarily the city governance, but rather the people being governed. (People who, I believe, have a genetic predisposition to having a lower IQ on average.) The city governance is merely a reflection of the people.

What do you propose that the perfect mayor do to fix Detroit? I don't see anything that could be done within the law to do that. I guess I would push for birth control, mandatory birth control for women on welfare, and city-funded and encouraged abortion. Then I'd also try to come up with a plan to encourage, perhaps financially, the poor and the gang bangers to permanently relocate out of Michigan. Then I'd put "STRESS" back on the streets, a program where law enforcement stalks criminals by having some police officers pose as victims while having other police nearby with the hopes of being able to kill assailants in the act.

However, I can't imagine that I'd actually be able to implement any of those policies, legally. So, what do you think the perfect mayor could actually, legally do to fix the City?
I don't have any answers and I'm man enough to admit it. The issues I brought up are not the only factors by any means. It's going to take a change in the mindset of the residents of the city. How that's to be accomplished, I cannot say with any certainty. My alluding to the city being a welfare haven is of course an exaggeration. But to think this is not a way of life for many is also an untruth. Third and fourth generation welfare families most certainly do exist.

Drugs are at the root of many problems in Detroit. Selling, using, stealing to get more is a seemingly endless cycle. This for certain needs to be dealt with. Corruption exists all through our nation, it's not a problem exclusive to Detroit. People who want to only take and not contribute are a national problem too.

The national mindset right now is one of entitlement. I don't see any changes to that thinking forthcoming soon. When your leaders are proclaiming that we're going to take from those that have to give to those that have not, you're still not addressing the underlying issue. You're just perpetuating the problem. It's enabling to an even greater extent those that don't care to contribute. They are taught that their behavior is one that has a reward - more free cheese. (As a side note, someday the cheese will run out)

Flint to the North of Detroit is going to start tearing down entire blocks of run down abandoned homes. Where they are to get the funding for this is a mystery to me. The hope is to create safer neighborhoods, less need for public services, a chance for those in the city to have some areas of green and ultimately to encourage redevelopment. The hope too is that people will start to take some pride in their homes and maintain them to a greater degree. This will spread to Detroit. It's got to help.

I'm as good at bashing politicians as the next guy. I do however turn to them for answers. If they want the job and get the job, it's not unrealistic to expect them to perform. If I had the answers and wanted the job, I'd run for office. I don't and I haven't.

IMO, the root of the answer is found in human nature. If you reward people for contributing nothing, they will continue to contribute nothing. There must be a means to reward people for positive contributions instead of negative ones. Most of us call that work.

Here's my prediction. As goes Detroit so goes the nation. The same mindset that consumed Detroit is consuming the country.
 

BarneyFife

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Aug 12, 2001
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I don't want to hear about genetically inherited low iq. I've said this before but my co-workers from Africa are complete opposites from the "African Americans". They are highly educated and they've always told me how important it was to get an education in Africa. They always tell me that they do not want to be associated with blacks from the US and that they have every opportunity and they don't take advantage of it.

Personally from living in the Detroit area all my life, I can tell you that the older black people (50 and above) are generally hard working and care. Its the ones that are 35 and under who have been raised in the thug/gangster/ghetto trash culture who don't care about anything except welfare and trying to hustle. The black youth have no future in the US and its sad because all these billions of $$$ are spent on them and they decide to look the other way and continue on their failed mission to become an entertainer or athlete.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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I don't want to hear about genetically inherited low iq. I've said this before but my co-workers from Africa are complete opposites from the "African Americans". They are highly educated and they've always told me how important it was to get an education in Africa. They always tell me that they do not want to be associated with blacks from the US and that they have every opportunity and they don't take advantage of it.

I would assume that if they were able to make it to the U.S. that they are part of the top 5%, as are the Asian students who are able to get to the U.S. I can only imagine how disgusted they must be when they see just how poorly blacks are doing, in mass, here in the U.S.
 

ProfJohn

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Jul 28, 2006
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Math and science isn't really pushed by black community IME but sports and arts. to each their own. Maybe some cultures value different things is that a bad thing? I don't think so unless it infringes on another and certainly no reason to disparage a whole race because of it.

This is a tech board so it does not surprise me many of you nerds can't see value in sports and arts.
The decision to focus on sports and arts instead of math and science infringes on the entire country in the form of higher taxes in order to support the social welfare system that we have created to keep these people from starving to death when they become adults with no ability to support themselves or their families.

Do you think it is a coincidence that the rate of out of marriage child births started to raise dramatically AFTER the passing of the great society and the creation of the 'safety net' ??
 
Oct 30, 2004
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The national mindset right now is one of entitlement. I don't see any changes to that thinking forthcoming soon. When your leaders are proclaiming that we're going to take from those that have to give to those that have not, you're still not addressing the underlying issue. You're just perpetuating the problem. It's enabling to an even greater extent those that don't care to contribute. They are taught that their behavior is one that has a reward - more free cheese. (As a side note, someday the cheese will run out)

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree with you about having an entitlement mentality and the failure of the people to take responsibility for themselves, but what the heck can we do about it other than to let the people starve? If they start to starve will they storm the suburbs?

I think the first thing we need to do is to focus on population control. Ending the cycle of impoverished people birthing children they cannot afford to take care of nor know how to raise properly who in turn will become impoverished themselves has to be a top priority. If we could prevent the poor from having children eventually much of the underclass would just die of old age without having reproduced themselves. With a smaller population of poor people we'll be better able to focus resources to help them.

That solution is extremely politically incorrect, however. How dare the government or society tell poor people not to have children? Having children is a God-given right and all children are a blessing from God! It's black genooocide! They're trying to kill our bay-yay-yay-bees!

Even the woman who wanted to pay crack addicts to get sterilized so that they wouldn't have litters of retarded crack babies that the rest of society must pay for was heavily demonized.