IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 73,104
- 34,406
- 136
I'm not into eugenics. I'm in favor of population reduction. Conception control is the cheapest pathway to population reduction. The offer would be for anyone who would take it.
SunSamurai
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2005
- 3,914
- 0
- 0
/stirs potAs of the 2000 Census, there were 951,270 people, 336,428 households, and 218,341 families residing in the city. The population density was 6,855.1 people per square mile (2,646.7/km². There were 375,096 housing units at an average density of 2,703.0 units per square mile (1,043.6/km²
:twisted:
Also, could Craig234 please tell us all why he is such a racist?
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SunSamurai
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2005
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SunSamurai
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2005
- 3,914
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Culture and environment are obviously the major factors. I'll go ahead and throw another idea out there. That genetics plays a part in intelligence and some races are more intelligent than others. Before you go off on me, I'm not saying whether or not I believe this, just that studies have shown it and they are always dismissed as racism because the notion is far too politically-incorrect to even be considered.
SunSamurai
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2005
- 3,914
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Dont let Crieg hear you say that! He will start foaming at the mouth making long ranting non-senseical posts with one sentance per every other line.
Noooooooo what have you done? run! Flee!
--
By the way, I agree. It is partly genetics. But I think the main thing is more than some people being pre-wired for certain intellectual tasks and more the primal urge to stay in your 'group' and agree with your group. From that a government or subgovernment is established and the wills and desires of those groups becomes ordinances and laws and it compounds any sort of genetic aptitudes (or otherwise) further.
Its how the human being works!
Much of our black society has ancestors in tribes in Africa. I do not believe natural selection from school and more civil governments has had enough time to establish itself in many decedents. Survival was more physically based for a long time.
To prove this, I am Irish and Scottish, and I love to drink.
Noooooooo what have you done? run! Flee!
--
By the way, I agree. It is partly genetics. But I think the main thing is more than some people being pre-wired for certain intellectual tasks and more the primal urge to stay in your 'group' and agree with your group. From that a government or subgovernment is established and the wills and desires of those groups becomes ordinances and laws and it compounds any sort of genetic aptitudes (or otherwise) further.
Its how the human being works!
Much of our black society has ancestors in tribes in Africa. I do not believe natural selection from school and more civil governments has had enough time to establish itself in many decedents. Survival was more physically based for a long time.
To prove this, I am Irish and Scottish, and I love to drink.
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I don't bite your head off for saying it. I've always said the truth comes before 'politics'.
But there are a couple initial responses. The first is, if it WERE true, so what? What do you do with that information, given that we know SOME blacks are more capable than 99.9% of whites - how do y ou actually use that information in any constructive, meaningful public policy, instead of having it fuel ignorant bigotry and hatred and get misused to justify discrimnation? Think about that too.
Another is that you appear not know the history on this - since you don't mention is - of how a 'crap science' book was put out by people with a right-wing, anti-black agenda, called 'The Bell Curve'.
The book argued what you speculate about - and was widely attacked by experts for using atrocious bad science.
The uproar form all that largely put the issue to rest and discredited the proponents.
It's all too easy for 'innocent curiosity' to feed bigotry and you need to make sure you do consider your morals and such as you look at the issue.
I find it works a lot better not to worry about that - it is better for treating everyone with the respect they deserve, it's the better approach, not for 'political correctness' but for other reasons.
Finally I'd suggest you note how hard it is to determine what prblems black culture has that aree the result of centuries of mistreatment of them as a group. Frankly, that is hard for others to have any idea about. But look at blacks in cultures without that history, and you see a real difference\. which condemns our history of racism and our lack of appreciating its effects on people today.
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SunSamurai
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2005
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werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
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palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
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I'm not. You are. And yoi're a scumbag for such dishonest, offensive slander.
You could easily prove your case if you weren't lying - the board has a search function and >10000 posts.
You didn't do yourself any favors, when the lie you tell is having to argue with me about who gets to say what my position is, and there is so much data for testing your claim and you have *zero* examples.
SunSamurai
Diamond Member
- Jan 16, 2005
- 3,914
- 0
- 0
5150Joker
Diamond Member
Mass poverty + black population = recipe for poor academic results. This shouldn't serve as a surprise to anyone.
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 35,901
- 10,232
- 136
:hmm: Not happening.
This problem is not likely to solve itself on its own. In fact, I expect it to spread. Why? Population growth from the affected area and a migratory flight from it.
5150Joker
Diamond Member
The only way to cull this migratory effect is to put up huge walls around detroit (kinda like Gaza) and have security checkpoints. Maybe it's time we invented Robocop? You guys want a real world example of this effect? The Caribbean immigrants (Jamaica, Barbados etc.) that have high population density in parts of S. Florida (Miami) have turned the neighborhoods into shanty towns that look like the 3rd world. You wouldn't even believe you were in the US if it were not the ability to drive OUT of there and reach civilization. Just to go off on a bit of a tangent, I don't understand WHY the US allows these Caribbean people to claim political asylum and live here? 99% of them end up destroying neighborhoods, bring the literacy rate down, steal/kill and fill up the prison system.
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Mass poverty + group of people attacked with massive discrimination for centuries by whites = recipe. Has nothing to do with their being black. But you are probably one of those who are ignorant of the legacy.
Slavery 150 years ago caused the decline over the past 30 years? lol your an idiot.
It's people like you and thier do-good elitist attitude that have caused this decline.
Force them into concentrated projects (aka ghettos)? Yep, thats the liberals.
Pass them on to the next grade even though they havent learned the material, so as to not "hurt thier feelings"? yep, more bleeding heart morons such as yourself.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
You can blame whites to some extent, but when will the Blacks need to take responsibility for themselves? Do white people force them to have children they cannot afford to have (which makes it hard to advance economically and locks you into poverty)? Have white people forced illegal drug addiction on them? Have white people forced them to drop out of high school? Have white people committed black-on-black crime?
One possible explanation as to why Blacks have had difficulty fixing these problems is the issue of IQ as was suggested earlier. We may not want to talk about it or acknowledge it, but if in fact there is a racial difference how society needs to compensate for that might be something worthy of consideration.
5150Joker
Diamond Member
Yeah right whatever you say. Ever been to the Caribbean? I lived in Antigua for 1.5 years and it is fully governed by blacks and the place has been in a steady state of decline ever since England let them run their own affairs. They are loud, rude, lazy and dumb. A trait that likely describes a huge percentage of the Detroit population. If this offends people, I don't really care. Now contrast that with former colonies like India which have excelled in putting their country on the map and have turned a nation of mass poverty into a global economic power. The same could be said of Japan and S. Korea as well. Now find me an African nation that has done well after gaining independence? S. Africa farms have lost crop productivity >50% since the government there forced whites off their farms and handed them to blacks. The S. African government also took businesses away from Indians and gave them to blacks and those same businesses ended up in bankruptcy. Google it, you will find a lot of information about the subject.
Lastly, aid workers that have donated their own time in helping Africans learn how to farm and filter their water came back a few years later to see that the natives resorted to doing exactly what they did before aid workers showed up; the local river had a rotting corpse in it from which people were extracting water, the women were once again walking 2 miles or more to cut down wood for fire and the men were laying around doing nothing. BTW this story was taken directly from an NPR interview I heard a few years back.
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You clearly don't understand much though' you are willing to give te effects on a culture of centuries of discrimination about 5 words as a phrase buried in one sentnece, but only if followed by 'but'.
People are more complicated than that. You remind me of the father who looks at his anorexic daughter and yells at her 'can't you see how frickin thin you are?'
Not quite understanding how science shows when she looks at her scrawny frame she actually sees an overweight girl. He's nt going to 'get it' too easily.
Indeed the white race itself has some analogous blind spots - the way it for example has often worked itself into a frenzy over other groups posing an 'evil threat' to them, when they behave like that evil threat.
But they often don't understand that they are doing so.
You know the expression, when all you have is a hammer every problem rsembles a nail; when you see a Hitler in every group who doesn't bow down to you, you tend to see exaggerated threats and do evil.
When groups reinforce these views - whether it's US Whites reinforcing the rightness of abusing Indians or blacks or Mexicans or European whites reinforcing how colonizatin is right or whatever, it happens.
This is why you don't see a lot of public discussion in the period 1865-1955 about 'ya, we know we're screwing blacks with racism, but we don't care'; you do see a lot of people blind to what they were doing.
And you see blacks blind to it too. I remember a story - a black baseball team was riding in a bus with Jackie Robinson, running out of gas, and they came to a gas station but it was white only. Dare, they said, looks like they're going to run out of gas. Robinson said pull up there and put gas in, and the others wew just flabbergasted, because the idea had not hit them that tyey might do that. The sudden feeling of freedom that hit them was shocking. That sort of simple issue is just an illustration how the long-time racism affected them - that takes a ong time to get out.
How would you like to live in Detroit and have your kids get influenced by the culture there despite your teaching? I was just watching the story of a white 20 year old girl who had been raised by a caring mother but she had been exposed to cocaine at age 11 and became addicted to heroin, cocaine and crack cocaine, relying on prostitution with clse to ten men every day, and burglary and robbery to support her habit, while her carinf family was extremely upset trying to help. If you don't want that, if whites put in that environment fall victim to it, how do you think blacks feel?
You don't know, I suspect.
I've been surprised to learn how slaveowners had these same delusions, how they were SHOCKED when their slaves ran away in the civil war to fight with the north.
They's say how they had treated these slaves like family only to be betrayed this way. One slave responded that the owner didn't raise his children for labor and to sell them. The thing is that he had to explain that.
Go look at the civil rights white culture and you see mostly the whites reacting with surprise, incomproehension, anger - what do they WANT, how DARE they, blaming the blacks as unreasonable.
As white culture got educated, we now look back on those whites with our own incomprehensionm and embarrassment and just ignore them, becaus ewe understand how crazy much of that was.
We don't look at thecrappy toiled with a colored sign and see 'that's how it should be' like they did. We went through a long, painful process to change our culture for that one simple appreciation of fairness.
Today, we have another such lack of understanding, we're again reacting with 'anger at the victims', our own ignorance leading us to see only the two options of blacks just solving this or being lazy leeches on society, much as we saw only the two options of blacks being content and grateful slaves or being helpless menaces to society outside of slavery; much as in early civil rights was say blacks as only two choices of content with segregation and doing just fine, or ,isguided, angry hateful people who were a threat to society, recall the phrase 'uppity black', recall the lynching of thousands of blacks when the powerful white culture clashed with these 'uppity blacks', not always some middle of the night hooded crowd but sometimes a family picnic social event.
The samwe way you look at that now in disbelief, is an indication how you don't appreciate the effects of that on the group who was affected.
You probably equate black liberation in civil rights to being analogous to our founding fathers ending the legal problems with their rights they were unhappy about - law changed, problem solved.
But t's a very different situation. The legal changes and fixes are a start, not the end of the need. But once again we have ignorant whites angrily looking at blacks, not understanding the situation.
Blacks are 'responsible' for fixing this, but you can either understand better the situation and try to help with policies that are constructive, or you can be one of those in the mob who potests blacks getting into a good white school on the very rational, and absurdly impractical argument, 'if they want to go to a good school let them make their own good school. They have the freedom to do that, no one's stopping them'.
It's not easy to help people get better understanding. You couldn't do it with slaveowners who rationalized all the care they provided, you couldn't do it with segregationists who agreed slavery was terrible, and you can't do it with modern white people who just point their fingers at blacks in disgust and say how they need to 'fix black culture', even while they agree segregation was terrible.
And so these are pretty fruitless discussions, but we have them anyway, just as some people fought against slavery for centuries, fought against racist laws for a century.
Many whites were shocked to see the US president for the first time tell them that the black rights issue were a moral issue for the nation, when JFK did that in his bold speech. That was one small start.
And just maybe when I post about the 'legacy effects of racism', maybe a few people will imagine, what if their family for a century had been kept from advancing in wealth, education, housing.
Maybe they'll take a look and notice how blacks are still 'steered' to poor menial labor, whatever pretty civil rights bill said they can eat at any restaurant now.
That's a start to their trying to understand and say 'what is the problem and what can be done to help solve it', instead of just the hate for the damn parasite poor who are ungrateful, just as in the past.
Martin Luther King said something to effect that change has a very long arc but it leans towards justice. That was a great summary to how we've spent centuries getting closer to equali treatment for blacks.
We have a way to go. We've had huge cultural adjustments to make with the end of slavery, with the end of segregation, that the country wondered if it could make at the time. Neither whites nor blacks had easy answers, but most would agree they were good changes for justice, even if they faced misguided opposition at the time, just as further changes face today.
It was all to easy for ignorant whites to blame the effects of discrimination on racial inferiority in the past, and it still is.
You say it's 'worth considering' the role of racial inferiority. Many experts have thoroughly investigated the issue for dcades. Have you researched the findings? No? That's what's called 'ignorance'.
I'm not saying you are out to hate black people - but look at your behavior, happy to raise the issue of racial inferiority before you can be bothered to learn the facts about it. Is that 'rational' or 'decent'?
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