Just how bad is the Pentium D?

[Markfw]

just happened ! Yes, don't go for looks on the case, performance an cooling are number one consideration !

 

[VivienM]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
just happened !

Yeah, I know... I meant the next one.

 

[AkumaX]

i don't know where to post this, but LOL:

i got a Sonic Tower and installed it on this thing @ 2.8ghz. went to class, came back, and found out it was idling at 85c. whoops! i guess it's 'decent' for a passive cooling HSF on this smithfield.

 

[AkumaX]

oh yeah, and another thing; the Sonic Tower was a b!tch to install!!! Mark, if you thought the Big Typhoon was trouble, the very last step of the Sonic Tower (the other steps were nothing) is a MOFO.

 

[Lithan]

You sure it wasnt reading in F? Because Intels actually Idle very low. It's only when you start using them that they get hot as hell.

 

[Markfw]

Lithian, maybe in the past. But Preshott,smithfield are hot out of the gate !!

 

[AkumaX]

Originally posted by: Lithan
You sure it wasnt reading in F? Because Intels actually Idle very low. It's only when you start using them that they get hot as hell.

nah man.. that was 85C. here's speedfan's log during those 3 hours

i'll post a pic of what the Sonic Tower looks like in my 'rig'. In the meanwhile, i threw in a 80mm panaflo in the center of it, and now it's idling at 46c.

 

[INM8]

It's a serious issue with dual core chips, it is not processor-brand dependent, whether for AMD or Intel. people hear about it on X2 chips because the ratio of people owning X2 vs P-D is like 50:1

What problems have people been having with X2's and games? Im just interested in knowing...and i cant be bothered digging around there forums to find out

I'v had an x2 4400 for a couple months and I have played games on it ever since, including battlefeild 2, simcity 4, AOE3 demo, far cry, cs source, RON and AOK. I havent had to set the affinty for any of them, and i never applied any windows patch either.

What should i be looking for? I havent had any problems in games, but maybe im just not noticing it.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Lithan
You sure it wasnt reading in F? Because Intels actually Idle very low. It's only when you start using them that they get hot as hell.

What are you smoking???

I have seen many P-D users now and to have idles in the 40's is a godsend with aftermarket cooling....

Cool is the X2's that idle with stock HSF in the 30's.....With aftermarket cooling they can iidle in the high 20's like mine...

<<Because Intels actually Idle very low.>>

that one is funny...Can I use that in my sig????

 

[Lithan]

Intels procs use ~ 1/4th to 1/5th The power @ idle versus loaded. Do some research before you act like a smartass next time. 85*C is a clear example of either a fan that's shorting or improper seating. No processor in existance will run those temps @ idle unless you are putting a socket 7 heatsink on it.

 

[A Pickle]

I think the Pentium D is a good cheap CPU... but there's no question that AMD's X2 is much better, presumably for a number of reasons. There's the fabled memory-controller resulting in a much higher "frontside bus," which peaks out at twice the speed of the frontside bus on the Pentium D. There's a reason it doesn't cost much... frankly... the Pentium D is a piece of crap. But, I think it's redeemed by the price... which is incredibly low.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Lithan
Intels procs use ~ 1/4th to 1/5th The power @ idle versus loaded. Do some research before you act like a smartass next time. 85*C is a clear example of either a fan that's shorting or improper seating. No processor in existance will run those temps @ idle unless you are putting a socket 7 heatsink on it.

Do you have a Prehott or an 820D ? if not, you need to buy one or shut up ! These things are HOT ! Even at stock ! not 85c idle, but his sonic tower doesn;t have a fan I don't think. Idleing at 46c I believe which he said after putting a fan on it. Which is insane for a aftermarket cooler on a stock CPU. But these things are flamethrowers !

 

[stevty2889]

Originally posted by: VivienM

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Antec 3000 Something..... and an Antec 480 watt true power. What you need for quiet is 120mm exhaust fan Also, I really do like the XP90 HSF (AL) since it is so quiet and only $35, even though stock would do without overclocking. Hopefully more will chime in, but since its a variant of your original post, you may want to re-post and ask all these questions.

The Antec 3000s are black, aren't they? *sigh* I really would go with a white case if I could, but if I go for that X-Fi Platinum, I'd have a big ugly black thing in a drive bay. So I figured a silver case with black drives would be a nice compromise...

Also, do they include PSUs? A lot of the Antecs do.. and it's usually the SmartPower. If buying PSU separately, any reason for going with the TruePower (hey, I have one of those now.. the old 430W model) rather than the NeoPower and its 20% higher efficiency?

I'll start a separate thread in the appropriate forum asking for case ideas once I'm closer to purchasing... When is the next AMD CPU price cut scheduled for?

I am using the Antec Sonata II with my X2. It's got a 120mm exaust fan, with adjustable speeds. I keep it on medium, can barely hear it. Overclocked to 2.618gz with the stock cooler I idle at around 36c, while my stock pentium-d 830, even with that loud monsterous fan, idles at 48c, or 46c if I turn on speedstep. I have the X2 4200+ so it's got the better heatpiped stock cooler.

 

[Lithan]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Lithan
Intels procs use ~ 1/4th to 1/5th The power @ idle versus loaded. Do some research before you act like a smartass next time. 85*C is a clear example of either a fan that's shorting or improper seating. No processor in existance will run those temps @ idle unless you are putting a socket 7 heatsink on it.

Do you have a Prehott or an 820D ? if not, you need to buy one or shut up ! These things are HOT ! Even at stock ! not 85c idle, but his sonic tower doesn;t have a fan I don't think. Idleing at 46c I believe which he said after putting a fan on it. Which is insane for a aftermarket cooler on a stock CPU. But these things are flamethrowers !

So despite the fact that it's not possible for your arguement to be accurate based on the technical specs of intel's processors. You must be right because someone who tried to passively cool a 100+watt processor reports poor temps?

 

[Markfw]

Lithan, I think the system was off on the temps by 10c or so, but regardless of the exact temp, the system reposted that temp. The point I am argueing is your comment about Intel processors being cool. Not today they aren't ! Not even at Idle. And the 1/4th to 1/5th arguement does NOT match published review specs. Check all over, they use more at idle than AMD does at full load in some cases, but they do NOT swing that much. I can;t find the chart right now to link to. I will update when I find it, but something like 180 to 300.

 

[AkumaX]

Originally posted by: Lithan

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Lithan
Intels procs use ~ 1/4th to 1/5th The power @ idle versus loaded. Do some research before you act like a smartass next time. 85*C is a clear example of either a fan that's shorting or improper seating. No processor in existance will run those temps @ idle unless you are putting a socket 7 heatsink on it.

Do you have a Prehott or an 820D ? if not, you need to buy one or shut up ! These things are HOT ! Even at stock ! not 85c idle, but his sonic tower doesn;t have a fan I don't think. Idleing at 46c I believe which he said after putting a fan on it. Which is insane for a aftermarket cooler on a stock CPU. But these things are flamethrowers !

So despite the fact that it's not possible for your arguement to be accurate based on the technical specs of intel's processors. You must be right because someone who tried to passively cool a 100+watt processor reports poor temps?

i wasn't the only one who tried to cool this proc passively. in fact, this was probably where i got the idea. but then again, they've got that 120mm exhaust fan to make it "less" of a passive cooled hsf. with the extra 120mm fan, it performs better than the big typhoon.

but it all depends on case flow; the reason why my temps were so high is because i'm on an open test bed, rather than inside a case w/ airflow. it is impressive how xbitlab's sonic tower on passive was only 72c load. as for me, the fact that i added a dinky 80mm fan in the center of the sonic tower dropped the temps to 43c idle is also impressive, compared to my big typhoon which idled at 53c.

one last thing; in that review (pg. 2), they said they used a P4EE 2.8ghz (smithfield). is it really just an 820 or what?!?

:edited for clarity:

 

[Lithan]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Lithan, I think the system was off on the temps by 10c or so, but regardless of the exact temp, the system reposted that temp. The point I am argueing is your comment about Intel processors being cool. Not today they aren't ! Not even at Idle. And the 1/4th to 1/5th arguement does NOT match published review specs. Check all over, they use more at idle than AMD does at full load in some cases, but they do NOT swing that much. I can;t find the chart right now to link to. I will update when I find it, but something like 180 to 300.

You're quoting full system power usage. To be honest 180 to 300 watt only from loading cpu could easily be a 400% increase on cpu power usage.

i wasn't the only one who tried to cool this proc passively. in fact, this was probably where i got the idea. but then again, they've got that 120mm exhaust fan to make it "less" of a passive cooled hsf. with the extra 120mm fan, it performs better than the big typhoon.

Their review doesnt make sense although I might be wrong here. But smithfield is dual core, yet there is no such thing as a 2.8ee smithfield as far as I know. Maybe they got some sort of ES? I suspect they have a 2.8e or a 520 though.

The mistake I made was that I didn't see that your cooler was passive initially. Yeah, passively cooling a single core prescott is hard enough (72*C is not a safe temp imho). Passively cooling a dual core p4 is simply not possible without extreme measures.

 

[AkumaX]

It's lookin' good I just 2 x Prime'd it for the last couple of hours, reached an average of 52C on load. This is refreshing, since I just assumed that with the Big Typhoon, that 53C idle/73C load was the norm for my 820D.

pic of rig
closer pic

Notice how I just dropped in an 80mm fan in the center and it alleviated temps from 85c down to 42c (!!!).

Yes, it's messy, I know, but I'm just experimenting..

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Be careful, terrorists might try to ram an airliner into that thing

 

[josh609]

UMMM, i have an athlon xp 3000+ Barton, and i idle at 51C. Is that ok?

 

[josh609]

 

[carlosd]

Originally posted by: A Pickle
I think the Pentium D is a good cheap CPU... but there's no question that AMD's X2 is much better, presumably for a number of reasons. There's the fabled memory-controller resulting in a much higher "frontside bus," which peaks out at twice the speed of the frontside bus on the Pentium D. There's a reason it doesn't cost much... frankly... the Pentium D is a piece of crap. But, I think it's redeemed by the price... which is incredibly low.

You should know also that buying for example a 820 over a X2 3800+ is a false saving, first you have to buy a very good aftermarket cooler and some additional fans (add 50), also the mobo are in general more expensive (A NEO4-F costs 80USD, the chespest 955 I found in pricewatch costs 119 USD, so add 39USD, also DDR2 is more expensive (a pair of good ddr2 667 memory 512MB memory modules 160-180 USD, a pair of good DDR memorie modules 130-150USD, so add 30USD more).

So Pentium D 820 system
CPU : 250 USD
MOBO: 119 USD
Memory 180 USD
Aftermarket Cooling: 50USD
Total: 599USD

X2 3800+ system
CPU: 330 USD
MOBO: 80USD
Memory: 150USD
Aftermarket Cooling: Not necessary
Total: 560.
well you can get a good aftermarket cooling for 40-50USD also, and the price won't go more 10 or 15 USD beyond the 820 one.

This results in systems of similar price, well even the cost of an 820 system could be higher, so price is no reason to grab an 820, not even if you get one for 150 in ebay, the savings wouldn't worth it. Not to talk about the great advantage of the X2 system over the 820 system in performance, power consumption and heat. I would say the PD is chaper, but is a false saving since the final costs cf the a PD system could have a higher price than a similar X2 config.

 

[Markfw]

carlosd, I even proved all of that, thanks for reinforcing my point. Only one thing, my motherboard was $85, shipped. ECS 945P-A, and it is a great motherboard with great OC options.

 

[AkumaX]

carlosd, i also suggested all of that, too (in another thread). i didn't plan on o/cing that much, and didn't want to upgrade my components, that's why i went w/ my $65 ddr1/ddr2 agp/pci-e hybrid board. simple cas 2.5 ddr400 ($70 for 2x512mb) is what's needed to compete w/ basic ddr2-667 (sadly).

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Lithan
Intels procs use ~ 1/4th to 1/5th The power @ idle versus loaded. Do some research before you act like a smartass next time. 85*C is a clear example of either a fan that's shorting or improper seating. No processor in existance will run those temps @ idle unless you are putting a socket 7 heatsink on it.

Nice try....

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/print/pentiumd-820.html

more like 1/2.5....Look at the AMD procs listed in that example...there is 1/4th...

The idle of the P-D was higher then load of the 3500+ Venice.....


http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/p4_820/11.shtml

This one reaffirms same thing....

Lithan this is not system draw either, and they turned off CnQ for the AMD cpus...

I see no smart-asses just dumb-asses...

Edit: edited out comment I should have not made eventhough FUD pisses me off...