Just how bad is the Pentium D?

[AkumaX]

Just how bad is the Pentium D?

Originally posted by: fatty4ksu
Read the reviews.......it's good for some things and pretty awful for othes.

imo.

good:
- cheap short term dual core

bad:
- expensive long term investment (due to power/electricity usage)
- generally performs worse than the other dual core competitor
- high maintenace (due to heat output) - need high/top quality heatsink

Originally posted by: fatty4ksu

Originally posted by: VivienM
Is there anything the X2 is bad at?

Price

$350 - people can buy an X2 w/ a cheap HSF and plop that in their already existing S939 board, or get a good one for another $80 + ~$90 for some decent PC3200

~$180 - the cheapest 820D on ebay + ~ $50 for an excellent performing HSF to cool the mofo down + ~$100 for a decent o/cing mobo (since you'd have to o/c it just to reach the performance of a regular X2 3800+) + ~$130+ for some fast DDR2 ram. not just LL PC2-3200 or PC2-4200, PC2-5400 w/ LL at least just to match up to good ol' decent PC3200. then we all know how much electricity it'll use up over time...

Originally posted by: fatty4ksu
Not true at all. It's a serious issue w/the X2 chips. Changining affinity for games is annoying.

It's a serious issue with dual core chips, it is not processor-brand dependent, whether for AMD or Intel. people hear about it on X2 chips because the ratio of people owning X2 vs P-D is like 50:1

Originally posted by: fatty4ksu
LOL...a fresh windows install is the way to solve this embarrassing problem?

LOL

most people who install a new CPU and motherboard usually format to a new OS anyway. STFU. at least with AMD's route, most people already own S939 boards and can just pop in their dual core solution with a bios update, so formatting is optional. Intel users will most likely have to upgrade to i945 or i955x, when formating is most likely required. STFU.




- an unbiased P-D user

 

[Leper Messiah]

Fatty, dude. You just don't quit do you.

So far the games I have tested, WITH OUT A FRESH INSTALL OF WINDOWS that work.
Lineage 2
Sim City 4
NFSU 2
WoW
War Craft 3
Stepmania Online
UT2K4
Gunbound
Diablo 2
Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War.

This is with SP2, the AMD driver and the MS hotfix.

 

[mechBgon]

That being said, I'm hoping that the price on the X2 will fall a bit, because right now it's looking like a 3800+ X2, a gig or two of DDR 400 (is there a good reason for buying the dual channel kits?), a decent case/PS, a decently roomy SATA HD, an X-Fi Platinum or so, and a 7800GT is a tad outside my budget.

The Inquirer found some secondhand info indicating that there will be a price drop, including X2s, on October 24. Which is presently tomorrow So let's see what happens tomorrow.

Bigger picture: an X2 is too expensive, but you're going to buy an X-Fi Platinum?

 

[khurios2000]

 

[khurios2000]

 

[VivienM]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Bigger picture: an X2 is too expensive, but you're going to buy an X-Fi Platinum?

I'm a happy Audigy owner now... and I happen to like the headphone jack. (I have the original Audigy Platinum Ex with the external drive right now - as I said before, my budget was less contrained when I got this setup...) While I may just have been horribly lucky, I've always had good luck with my Creative products (SB16, SB Live! Value, Audigy Platinum Ex, Live 24bit, and I think that's about it), so I want another... and it seems the X-Fi is the hot Creative thing for now.

If you can suggest a cheaper way of getting one of those, with an accessible headphone jack (apparently Creative doesn't know about front panel audio connectors...), out of Uncle Creative, let me know...

(That being said, I've considered just sticking to onboard sound for now, out of a desire to save money... but...)

And FWIW, the X-Fi card is like $230 (CAD), and even without that, it seems like a reasonable X2 system would be about $1750, I think. (A bit less if shopping smart) That's with an Antec TX1088AMG, gig of RAM (I'd like two gigs, but...), A8N-E, 3800+ X2, 7800GT, a 250 gigger SATA something or other that sounds funky, a DVD burner, and a legit OEM copy of Windoze. $480 (CAD) for an X2 3800+, which is roughly 7800GT territory, is ouchy.

That being said, I'm in no huge hurry, so we'll see what happens by late December or so, which is probably when I'd end up buying...

 

[fatty4ksu]

Originally posted by: Leper Messiah
Fatty, dude. You just don't quit do you.

So far the games I have tested, WITH OUT A FRESH INSTALL OF WINDOWS that work.
Lineage 2
Sim City 4
NFSU 2
WoW
War Craft 3
Stepmania Online
UT2K4
Gunbound
Diablo 2
Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War.

This is with SP2, the AMD driver and the MS hotfix.

Those games work for me as well.

Madden 2006, Counter-strike all require teh affinity change.

 

[Lithan]

Originally posted by: VivienM

Originally posted by: slash196
I don't think you're going to be able to go 3 weeks without rebooting. Just give up the dream, man.

My current box has done 3-4 weeks routinely before some upgraded software (I suspect the version of GoBack in Norton SystemWorks 2005) or something introduced an issue where WinXP runs out of network buffers or something and explodes after about 2 weeks. Current uptime on the box right now is 1 week, 4 days, and it's running pretty good if I restart Firefox somewhat regularly (stupid thing leaks RAM like crazy on all my systems, but I do tend to have 25+ open tabs).

Longest uptime I've ever seen on a Windoze desktop machine was on Win2K on a Dell PIII 700. Went from Labour Day (first Monday in September) to Canadian Thanksgiving (second Monday of October) without rebooting I had a laptop once sit around for about 3 months without rebooting, but it wasn't being used very much.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not doing anything remotely hardcore... obviously, if I was, stability might be a little different.

The point is, though, that the Intel systems I've used CAN be stable enough that it's only Windows' stupid design flaws that eventually force a reboot weeks later. I'm worried an AMD X2 might not match that... (then again, if I'm not overclocking, which I wouldn't be, maybe it would?)

I've run win2k for a couple months at a time and only shut down to do hardware upgrades.

 

[VivienM]

Originally posted by: Lithan
I've run win2k for a couple months at a time and only shut down to do hardware upgrades.

On an AMD system?

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Lithan

Originally posted by: VivienM

Originally posted by: slash196
I don't think you're going to be able to go 3 weeks without rebooting. Just give up the dream, man.

My current box has done 3-4 weeks routinely before some upgraded software (I suspect the version of GoBack in Norton SystemWorks 2005) or something introduced an issue where WinXP runs out of network buffers or something and explodes after about 2 weeks. Current uptime on the box right now is 1 week, 4 days, and it's running pretty good if I restart Firefox somewhat regularly (stupid thing leaks RAM like crazy on all my systems, but I do tend to have 25+ open tabs).

Longest uptime I've ever seen on a Windoze desktop machine was on Win2K on a Dell PIII 700. Went from Labour Day (first Monday in September) to Canadian Thanksgiving (second Monday of October) without rebooting I had a laptop once sit around for about 3 months without rebooting, but it wasn't being used very much.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not doing anything remotely hardcore... obviously, if I was, stability might be a little different.

The point is, though, that the Intel systems I've used CAN be stable enough that it's only Windows' stupid design flaws that eventually force a reboot weeks later. I'm worried an AMD X2 might not match that... (then again, if I'm not overclocking, which I wouldn't be, maybe it would?)

I've run win2k for a couple months at a time and only shut down to do hardware upgrades.

I had an old Win2k box hosting one of our LaserJet 2200DTNs via parallel cable, after the printer's JetDirect card went *POOF* on us. That box was up for... I dunno... 4 months at a time, a couple times in a row. Other times I interrupted it for Windows patching that required reboots. I feel no special compulsion to reboot or shut down for anything outside of Windows updates, hardware changes or driver installations. Kind of a shame, too, when I've got a custom POST screen to look at

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Viditor

any suggestions on a good, solid, relatively inexpensive board (ideally Abit, DFI, MSI, Asus, or Gigabyte, as other brands seem to be harder to find up here)? Don't want SLI, overclockability, or good onboard audio, but do want stability and reliability

Asus A8N-E

Seconded. I've got a pair of A8N-E's and I absolutely love them. If you don't need (or want) SLI and Firewire and some of those other "premium" features, it rocks.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: VivienM

Originally posted by: Lithan
I've run win2k for a couple months at a time and only shut down to do hardware upgrades.

On an AMD system?

Yeah why!!! YOu got some INtel propaganda you would like to spread??? I regularly have them up for 2-3 months and then I shut them down and clean them up...My P4 2.4c@3.5ghz flded for 3 months straight before I turned it off to clean it.....

If you know how to build a stable system then it isn't a problem...for those who know what they are doing...OK???

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: VivienM

Originally posted by: Lithan
I've run win2k for a couple months at a time and only shut down to do hardware upgrades.

On an AMD system?

How many AMD system should I tell you I have done that one 5 at the same time ? I have....Stop trolling. If you don't know from personal experience like me, then shut the h$ll up.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Duvie
Yeah why!!! YOu got some INtel propaganda you would like to spread??? I regularly have them up for 2-3 months and then I shut them down and clean them up...My P4 2.4c@3.5ghz flded for 3 months straight before I turned it off to clean it.....

If you know how to build a stable system then it isn't a problem...for those who know what they are doing...OK???

QFT, the stability argument is now gone - perhaps part of that coincides with VIAs demise as the main vendor of AMD chipsets.

That said, my X2 runs weeks at a time with no reboots. The only ones are those I initiate, usually after driver updates or patches.

 

[VivienM]

Originally posted by: Duvie

If you know how to build a stable system then it isn't a problem...for those who know what they are doing...OK???

My Intel systems are perfectly stable, thank you very much...

Does it really make me a troll to want to inquire about typical AMD/nF4 stability before spending over a grand on one? As another poster said, back in the VIA days, AMDs got a bad rep on stability...

 

[VivienM]

Originally posted by: Pabster

That said, my X2 runs weeks at a time with no reboots. The only ones are those I initiate, usually after driver updates or patches.

This is the rig in your sig? A8N-E, not overclocked, etc?

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: VivienM

Originally posted by: Duvie

If you know how to build a stable system then it isn't a problem...for those who know what they are doing...OK???

My Intel systems are perfectly stable, thank you very much...

Does it really make me a troll to want to inquire about typical AMD/nF4 stability before spending over a grand on one? As another poster said, back in the VIA days, AMDs got a bad rep on stability...

Nope...However Via has been quite a few years now...unless you have been in a cave the last 3-4 years you should know this is not even an issue....

Since the introduction of Nvidia chipset they have been rock solid....They even make very nice INtel mobos now...

I do apologize..I didn't know I was dealing with someone who hasn't a clue about the latest technology for the last 3 years plus....Intel fanboys tried that argument up until about 2 years ago and then gave up....It has been dead for awhile...

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: VivienM

Originally posted by: Duvie

If you know how to build a stable system then it isn't a problem...for those who know what they are doing...OK???

My Intel systems are perfectly stable, thank you very much...

Does it really make me a troll to want to inquire about typical AMD/nF4 stability before spending over a grand on one? As another poster said, back in the VIA days, AMDs got a bad rep on stability...

If you have read reviews and posts for the last 2 years you would know that AMD is stable. Actually more than Intel (see THG review as of late, not they are great, but I believe the Intel system was unstable due to too much power consumption)

So implying that they are not stable is either trolling or stupidity.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: VivienM

Originally posted by: Pabster

That said, my X2 runs weeks at a time with no reboots. The only ones are those I initiate, usually after driver updates or patches.

This is the rig in your sig? A8N-E, not overclocked, etc?

Yes, my X2 rig is listed in sig.

It is overclocked. I was surprised, actually, by how well the A8N-E does in this department (given a lot of advice to the contrary.)

I'm running 255x10 (2550) with 1.45 volts.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Yeah, true that. What inspired you to get Intel's ill-fated Williamette on the ill-fated i850 chipset with ill-fated PC800 RDRAM in the first place, exactly?

??

There was a window in time where the i850's with RDRam was the most economical solution to get for a mid-high end system. I remember getting an Asus P4T-E (i850), flashing it to a P4T533-C and running a 1.6a Northwood overclocked to 2.4Ghz with Samsung PC800 RDRam clocked at PC1200, all for slightly more (maybe $50 out of $600) than what a PC2700/i845D would've cost at the time, which was winter of 2002.

---

If you're building it for gaming, I dont think anyone would recommend a Pentium-D or a Pentium4-E series. If you insist on Intel, I'd look into a Pentium-M/2MB/533 with a desktop CT-479 adapter; they've been proven to match AthlonFX's clock for clock when it comes to gaming while using 1/2 the power. January 2006 is when Yonah, the dual-core version of Dothan, will debut.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: VivienM
As another poster said, back in the VIA days, AMDs got a bad rep on stability...

For the record, that "bad rep" was ViA's fault. AMD processors themselves have no stability issues and anyone who might claim otherwise is delusional.

 

[VivienM]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

If you have read reviews and posts for the last 2 years you would know that AMD is stable. Actually more than Intel (see THG review as of late, not they are great, but I believe the Intel system was unstable due to too much power consumption)

Most reviews I've read have a very definition of stability than mine. Theirs seems to be running some testing applications (prime95? there may be others) for a given amount of time at various overclocking settings. My definition of stability is keeping that lovely flakey thing known as Windows up, while doing ordinary things, for an extended period of time (ideally weeks) without driver issues, blue screens, and whatnot.

One would hope that a stable machine could pass both tests , but I still remember reviews from the 'bad old days' that seemed impressed a VIA-based AMD machine could stay up 24 hours. At the time, I drew the 'obvious' conclusion and went with the all Intel (CPU/chipset/board) solution, which has performed admirably... and I think it is common instinct, when happy with something, to want to purchase the same brand next time. But at the same time, it would be foolish not to explore other possibilities if they are clearly better.

THG did do that test, and I forget the issue... the Intel system blew up its PSU or something? Not encouraging, certainly...

As for reading posts... well, there's a small issue with that: most people only post when they're having problems. It'd be easy to assume from a cursory look at the forums that brand X whatever is crap, when in fact the real 'problem' is that everybody is going with brand X and thus no one is going to have problems with brand Y. And if you look around these forums... most talk, whether good or bad, involves AMD.

And for the record, you people have more or less convinced me to go with the X2 3800+/A8N-E. (Keep in mind that I posted this thread being very tempted by a dirt cheap Abit AL8-V/1gig DDR2 combo to use with a P-D, and wondering if that would be a very big mistake... and I think I'm starting to understand why retailers have trouble unloading their i945 boards) If I was actually ordering the parts tomorrow, that's what I'd be buying. (And I'd be coming back for advice on what case/RAM to pick, too...)

Now if Newegg would just hurry setting up their Canadian operation and have a very generous opening sale... ;-)

 

[VivienM]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: VivienM
As another poster said, back in the VIA days, AMDs got a bad rep on stability...

For the record, that "bad rep" was ViA's fault. AMD processors themselves have no stability issues and anyone who might claim otherwise is delusional.

The biggest problem with AMD has always been, IMO, that they don't make their own chipsets (with the occasional short-lived exception, like AMD760). That got their name dragged through the mud due to VIA's lousy chipsets...

CPUs and chipsets are tightly linked, for common sense reasons. The most stable CPU in the world, without a stable chipset to go with (and from everything I've heard, the nF4 Ultra matches that requirement, while VIA's crap didn't), is not going to make for a stable system. And for quite a long time, a stable chipset for AMDs did not exist...

If only one could buy an AMD-branded CPU, chipset, and motherboard... I think it would make a lot of weary people out there much, much, much more eager to switch to the AMD side, if only because of the "if the same company made all of it, it's going to work better together" psychological effect.

But since one can't do that, it falls on the presumptive buyer to inquire in forums such as this whether a particular CPU + chipset + board combination works well in practice, does it not?

 

[VivienM]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: VivienM

This is the rig in your sig? A8N-E, not overclocked, etc?

Yes, my X2 rig is listed in sig.

And it's pretty much identical (A8N-E, 7800GT, X-Fi, etc) to what I'd want to get, too... so presumably, if it works well for you (and you're overclocking, which adds another layer of Stuff That Could Go Wrong), there's no reason the same combo wouldn't work the same for me...

That P180 must be nice... pricy, though... which is why I'm thinking more about the TX1088AMG or something in that price range (P150 looks nice, especially since I like white cases, but Creative's new decision not to make white I/O drives is pushing me towards silvery/black). But I'll post a thread asking for case ideas at some point...

 

[Markfw]

OK, so you are starting to ignore OLD news ?? good.