John McCain--American Hero

[Doc Savage Fan]

This thread proves that the neo-Libs (like RightIsWrong and many others) will stop at nothing to twist information and discredit ANYONE with a (R) behind their name. If you've got a beef with McCain on an issue...that's one thing...but to marginalize this man's POW experiences on the sole basis of his party affiliation is sick and ugly.

Both McCain and Obama are honorable men and both deserve some semblance of respect regardless of whether you agree with them or not. There are so many here filled with hate and intolerance...it's now elevated into a hysteria. Neo-cons have really screwed up this nation...now it looks like neo-Libs want to finish the job.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
This thread proves that the neo-Libs (like RightIsWrong and many others) will stop at nothing to twist information and discredit ANYONE with a (R) behind their name. If you've got a beef with McCain on an issue...that's one thing...but to marginalize this man's POW experiences on the sole basis of his party affiliation is sick and ugly.

Both McCain and Obama are honorable men and both deserve some semblance of respect regardless of whether you agree with them or not. There are so many here filled with hate and intolerance...it's now elevated into a hysteria. Neo-cons have really screwed up this nation...now it looks like neo-Libs want to finish the job.

First things first....WTF is a "neo-lib"?

Secondly, where did I marginalize his POW status? By factually stating that he was shot down? By factually stating that he said he would talk in exchange for medical treatment?

I'm not highlighting these because of his party affiliation. I am highlighting these because they are the topic of this thread. Why don't you go and find a single thread that I have started about McCain. Better yet, go and find a single post in any McCain thread that was started by anyone that I strayed from the actual subject in the OP and wasn't based on facts as stated by him or his voting record.

If someone were to start a thread glowingly stating that Obama deserved nothing but respect because he was a Harvard grad, it is perfectly acceptable to bring into question whether or not his grades were at or near the top of his class. Did he get into school based on his merits or connections?

Edit: I figured out what a neo-lib is. It is some right wing euphemism that is trying to equate their insecurities of being associated with neo-conservatism and the 8th deadly sin of being a liberal. They figure if they make up some new word that incorporates the failure that is neo-conservatism with the irrational mocking of liberalism, they have a sure-fire moniker for the brain-dead followers.

 

[Vic]

Neoliberalism is a genuine political agenda. It just doesn't describe RightIsWrong or the Democratic party, so Doc Savage Fan was using it wrong. Prominent examples of neoliberalism are Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan, and Bill Clinton.

And if I were looking exclusively for a war hero to make President, and being a war hero were my sole criteria, I'd elect Dick Winters. That's a true war hero if there ever was one. But he's 90 years old and wouldn't want the job anyway.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
This thread proves that the neo-Libs (like RightIsWrong and many others) will stop at nothing to twist information and discredit ANYONE with a (R) behind their name. If you've got a beef with McCain on an issue...that's one thing...but to marginalize this man's POW experiences on the sole basis of his party affiliation is sick and ugly.

Both McCain and Obama are honorable men and both deserve some semblance of respect regardless of whether you agree with them or not. There are so many here filled with hate and intolerance...it's now elevated into a hysteria. Neo-cons have really screwed up this nation...now it looks like neo-Libs want to finish the job.

First things first....WTF is a "neo-lib"?

Secondly, where did I marginalize his POW status? By factually stating that he was shot down? By factually stating that he said he would talk in exchange for medical treatment?

I'm not highlighting these because of his party affiliation. I am highlighting these because they are the topic of this thread. Why don't you go and find a single thread that I have started about McCain. Better yet, go and find a single post in any McCain thread that was started by anyone that I strayed from the actual subject in the OP and wasn't based on facts as stated by him or his voting record.

If someone were to start a thread glowingly stating that Obama deserved nothing but respect because he was a Harvard grad, it is perfectly acceptable to bring into question whether or not his grades were at or near the top of his class. Did he get into school based on his merits or connections?

Edit: I figured out what a neo-lib is. It is some right wing euphemism that is trying to equate their insecurities of being associated with neo-conservatism and the 8th deadly sin of being a liberal. They figure if they make up some new word that incorporates the failure that is neo-conservatism with the irrational mocking of liberalism, they have a sure-fire moniker for the brain-dead followers.

RightIsWrong...you plainly cannot see what I'm talking about. You look through a microscope and magnify "facts" to fit into your twisted partisan worldview.

So...your big beef is that he lost his 5th aircraft when he was shot down over Hanoi? Or that he may have offered information on the brink of consciousness to save his life? You apparently missed all those examples of courage in the face of extreme adversity. When you look past everything else that happened and focus criticism on these small things...I call it marginalization.

Do you expect me to believe that you would make the similar comments if he were a Democrat? Right...I read enough of your posts to know better. But I'm sure that you believe it?if that's any comfort to you.

FYI, I used the term Neo-Lib to describe those with an extremist liberal ideology...perhaps I should have used the term shameless "partisan hack" to describe you...your choice.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Service to your country and ability to lead the country are not one in the same. If it were, we should be looking for the real-life Forrest Gump.

 

[AAjax]

He did his duty, but then he became a politician. Currently his actions are worthy of contempt. He IMHO is no longer a hero of any sort, but a seditious traitor who has lost all respect for the republic, the constitution and rule of law.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
Service to your country and ability to lead the country are not one in the same. If it were, we should be looking for the real-life Forrest Gump.

No, a Dick Winters. And a number of others who demonstrated the ability to lead their fellow soldiers successfully under THE most trying of circumstances.
This is why "war heroes" so frequently become successful politicians, beyond just the name recognition.

 

[Thump553]

McCain was a fighter pilot in the service. Arguably the only real leading he did was in a North Vietnamese prison, as the senior officer if I recall it correctly.

Don get me wronghe has an admirable service record, I'm just questioning its relevance as a qualification for the presidency. For most of his service he was essentially a small squad leader.

Further, doesn't our country have a pretty spotty record with military leaders as Presidents? The only two I can think of off-hand are U.S. Grant (the only President impeached besides Bill Clinton) and Eisenhower (an average to slightly above average President in my opinion).

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Woofmeister
Senator John McCain has given a lifetime of service to this country--both in and out of uniform. He has endured the worst that our enemies could inflict and responded with courage and honor. He is a model of what we used to expect from our leaders before life became so easy for us that we forgot what it means to truly be a hero.

Vote for him or don't, disagree with him on the issues if you must (I disagree with him on a bunch of them) but never forget that McCain is twice the man most of us will ever be.

U.S. News and World Report is running the story on John McCain's captitivity in North Vietnam that originally appeared in their May 14, 1973 issue. Fittingly, it is the most viewed story on their website today. It's long, but worth the read.

John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First Person Account

We don't necessarily owe John McCain the presidency for the years he spent as a POW, but we all owe him our respect and admiration.

Do we owe John Kerry the same respect and admiration?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Thump553

Further, doesn't our country have a pretty spotty record with military leaders as Presidents? The only two I can think of off-hand are U.S. Grant (the only President impeached besides Bill Clinton) and Eisenhower (an average to slightly above average President in my opinion).

I think we do have a spotty history with military leaders as president and I tend to look extra hard at them as presidential candidates to ensure they are more visionary and humanitarian than merely 'efficient bureaucrats', but there were a number of other military leaders elected president as well, and Grant was not impeached, Andrew Johnson was.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Woofmeister
Senator John McCain has given a lifetime of service to this country--both in and out of uniform. He has endured the worst that our enemies could inflict and responded with courage and honor. He is a model of what we used to expect from our leaders before life became so easy for us that we forgot what it means to truly be a hero.

Vote for him or don't, disagree with him on the issues if you must (I disagree with him on a bunch of them) but never forget that McCain is twice the man most of us will ever be.

U.S. News and World Report is running the story on John McCain's captitivity in North Vietnam that originally appeared in their May 14, 1973 issue. Fittingly, it is the most viewed story on their website today. It's long, but worth the read.

John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First Person Account

We don't necessarily owe John McCain the presidency for the years he spent as a POW, but we all owe him our respect and admiration.

Do we owe John Kerry the same respect and admiration?

No, because he doesn´t espouse the same view as the mindless uberpatriots, so they don´t recognize his service.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

No, because he doesn´t espouse the same view as the mindless uberpatriots, so they don´t recognize his service.

I clearly recall the Republicans honoring Kerry at their own convention, in a moving tribute where they all wore little bandages to show their respect for his service.

 

[Woofmeister]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

No, because he doesn´t espouse the same view as the mindless uberpatriots, so they don´t recognize his service.

I clearly recall the Republicans honoring Kerry at their own convention, in a moving tribute where they all wore little bandages to show their respect for his service.

Actually, many Republicans came out and condemned the attacks on Kerry's service. The most notable of whom was . . . wait for it . . .John McCain.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
This thread proves that the neo-Libs (like RightIsWrong and many others) will stop at nothing to twist information and discredit ANYONE with a (R) behind their name. If you've got a beef with McCain on an issue...that's one thing...but to marginalize this man's POW experiences on the sole basis of his party affiliation is sick and ugly.

Both McCain and Obama are honorable men and both deserve some semblance of respect regardless of whether you agree with them or not. There are so many here filled with hate and intolerance...it's now elevated into a hysteria. Neo-cons have really screwed up this nation...now it looks like neo-Libs want to finish the job.

First things first....WTF is a "neo-lib"?

Secondly, where did I marginalize his POW status? By factually stating that he was shot down? By factually stating that he said he would talk in exchange for medical treatment?

I'm not highlighting these because of his party affiliation. I am highlighting these because they are the topic of this thread. Why don't you go and find a single thread that I have started about McCain. Better yet, go and find a single post in any McCain thread that was started by anyone that I strayed from the actual subject in the OP and wasn't based on facts as stated by him or his voting record.

If someone were to start a thread glowingly stating that Obama deserved nothing but respect because he was a Harvard grad, it is perfectly acceptable to bring into question whether or not his grades were at or near the top of his class. Did he get into school based on his merits or connections?

Edit: I figured out what a neo-lib is. It is some right wing euphemism that is trying to equate their insecurities of being associated with neo-conservatism and the 8th deadly sin of being a liberal. They figure if they make up some new word that incorporates the failure that is neo-conservatism with the irrational mocking of liberalism, they have a sure-fire moniker for the brain-dead followers.

RightIsWrong...you plainly cannot see what I'm talking about. You look through a microscope and magnify "facts" to fit into your twisted partisan worldview.

So...your big beef is that he lost his 5th aircraft when he was shot down over Hanoi? Or that he may have offered information on the brink of consciousness to save his life? You apparently missed all those examples of courage in the face of extreme adversity. When you look past everything else that happened and focus criticism on these small things...I call it marginalization.

Do you expect me to believe that you would make the similar comments if he were a Democrat? Right...I read enough of your posts to know better. But I'm sure that you believe it?if that's any comfort to you.

FYI, I used the term Neo-Lib to describe those with an extremist liberal ideology...perhaps I should have used the term shameless "partisan hack" to describe you...your choice.

Losing 5 planes is a heroic endeavor now? If you think that is something small that shouldn't be looked at as a mistake, then it is you who is the partisan hack.

My "beef" isn't that he lost #5 over Hanoi. It is that the article in the OP is a fluff peace that even the most tenured porn star wouldn't be able to compete with. It reeks of partisan toilet paper like quality and completely ignores reality in a lot of ways.

Does the "author" mention that McCain lost 4 other planes?

Does the "author" mention that McCain offered to talk?

Does the "author" mention that McCain dumped his wife almost immediately after returning and finding her disfigured due to a car accident?

You get the point...I hope.

I don't begrudge McCain for offering to talk for medical attention. I have already stated that I can state with 99.99% certainty that I would have too in his position.

I do begrudge that someone that lost 5 planes is considered a hero because he was lucky enough to survive all of the crashes and then got tortured because the 5th wasn't on friendly soil.

I do begrudge him for abandoning his family.

Oh, and for the record, some of my "greatest hits":

Regarding Hillary and fundraising:

If she or anyone on her staff had direct knowledge, they should be punished according to the law.

If Hillary is complicit in any of this then she deserves the same fate as DeLay.

No, I don't mean being promoted to the top spots in the party. No, not having the ethics rules re-written to allow her to serve while under suspicion. No, not demoting the head of the ethics committee because (s)he stands up for the rules and looks like he might go against DeLay. No, not trying to change the rules to call any stalemate (5D/5R on the committee) basically being a draw and no action being taken against the accused.

Indicted and forced from government. YES, that's the one she would deserve.

Regarding Spitzer:

if indicted, Spitzer should resign immediately. He betrayed the public trust (I really don't care what he did in his marital relationship b/c that is none of my business) and should accept the consequences.

If he is NOT indicted, he should still resign but I don't care if he stays.

I could pull of a truckload of other posts where I have been critical of Democrats if the search function worked better. I think you should do a little more research when calling someone a partisan.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Thump553

Further, doesn't our country have a pretty spotty record with military leaders as Presidents? The only two I can think of off-hand are U.S. Grant (the only President impeached besides Bill Clinton) and Eisenhower (an average to slightly above average President in my opinion).

Um, not really.

Linkage.

 

[Woofmeister]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
This thread proves that the neo-Libs (like RightIsWrong and many others) will stop at nothing to twist information and discredit ANYONE with a (R) behind their name. If you've got a beef with McCain on an issue...that's one thing...but to marginalize this man's POW experiences on the sole basis of his party affiliation is sick and ugly.

Both McCain and Obama are honorable men and both deserve some semblance of respect regardless of whether you agree with them or not. There are so many here filled with hate and intolerance...it's now elevated into a hysteria. Neo-cons have really screwed up this nation...now it looks like neo-Libs want to finish the job.

First things first....WTF is a "neo-lib"?

Secondly, where did I marginalize his POW status? By factually stating that he was shot down? By factually stating that he said he would talk in exchange for medical treatment?

I'm not highlighting these because of his party affiliation. I am highlighting these because they are the topic of this thread. Why don't you go and find a single thread that I have started about McCain. Better yet, go and find a single post in any McCain thread that was started by anyone that I strayed from the actual subject in the OP and wasn't based on facts as stated by him or his voting record.

If someone were to start a thread glowingly stating that Obama deserved nothing but respect because he was a Harvard grad, it is perfectly acceptable to bring into question whether or not his grades were at or near the top of his class. Did he get into school based on his merits or connections?

Edit: I figured out what a neo-lib is. It is some right wing euphemism that is trying to equate their insecurities of being associated with neo-conservatism and the 8th deadly sin of being a liberal. They figure if they make up some new word that incorporates the failure that is neo-conservatism with the irrational mocking of liberalism, they have a sure-fire moniker for the brain-dead followers.

RightIsWrong...you plainly cannot see what I'm talking about. You look through a microscope and magnify "facts" to fit into your twisted partisan worldview.

So...your big beef is that he lost his 5th aircraft when he was shot down over Hanoi? Or that he may have offered information on the brink of consciousness to save his life? You apparently missed all those examples of courage in the face of extreme adversity. When you look past everything else that happened and focus criticism on these small things...I call it marginalization.

Do you expect me to believe that you would make the similar comments if he were a Democrat? Right...I read enough of your posts to know better. But I'm sure that you believe it?if that's any comfort to you.

FYI, I used the term Neo-Lib to describe those with an extremist liberal ideology...perhaps I should have used the term shameless "partisan hack" to describe you...your choice.

Losing 5 planes is a heroic endeavor now? If you think that is something small that shouldn't be looked at as a mistake, then it is you who is the partisan hack.

My "beef" isn't that he lost #5 over Hanoi. It is that the article in the OP is a fluff peace that even the most tenured porn star wouldn't be able to compete with. It reeks of partisan toilet paper like quality and completely ignores reality in a lot of ways.

Does the "author" mention that McCain lost 4 other planes?

Does the "author" mention that McCain offered to talk?

Does the "author" mention that McCain dumped his wife almost immediately after returning and finding her disfigured due to a car accident?

You get the point...I hope.

I don't begrudge McCain for offering to talk for medical attention. I have already stated that I can state with 99.99% certainty that I would have too in his position.

I do begrudge that someone that lost 5 planes is considered a hero because he was lucky enough to survive all of the crashes and then got tortured because the 5th wasn't on friendly soil.

I do begrudge him for abandoning his family.

Oh, and for the record, some of my "greatest hits":

Regarding Hillary and fundraising:

If she or anyone on her staff had direct knowledge, they should be punished according to the law.

If Hillary is complicit in any of this then she deserves the same fate as DeLay.

No, I don't mean being promoted to the top spots in the party. No, not having the ethics rules re-written to allow her to serve while under suspicion. No, not demoting the head of the ethics committee because (s)he stands up for the rules and looks like he might go against DeLay. No, not trying to change the rules to call any stalemate (5D/5R on the committee) basically being a draw and no action being taken against the accused.

Indicted and forced from government. YES, that's the one she would deserve.

Regarding Spitzer:

if indicted, Spitzer should resign immediately. He betrayed the public trust (I really don't care what he did in his marital relationship b/c that is none of my business) and should accept the consequences.

If he is NOT indicted, he should still resign but I don't care if he stays.

I could pull of a truckload of other posts where I have been critical of Democrats if the search function worked better. I think you should do a little more research when calling someone a partisan.

The article is neither "partisan" nor is it a "puff piece." As I explained in the OP, it is a reprint of an article that originally appeared in US News and World Report in their May 14, 1973 issue--i.e., before McCain's political career began.

The article does not mention that McCain lost four other planes (one of which was a shoot down, one of which was in the Forrestal fire and one of which was a a flame out), because those facts are irrelevant to the story and are meaningless now to anybody but the most rank hyperpartisan fool. Flying 1960s era fighters was very dangerous and crashes were incredibly frequent. How many fighter jets have you flown without crashing oh Ace of Aces?

Oh and with regard to McCain's offer to talk, he never gave the North Vietnamese anything of value and the accusation that he did otherwise is total bullshit.

McCain was held as a prisoner of war for more than five years. Orson Swindle, a prisoner of war with McCain in Vietnam, countered the group's charges in a statement put out by the campaign. "Nothing could be further from the truth. I know because I was there," he said. McCain never told the Northern Vietnamese anything and refused release from a prison camp unless his fellow POWs were released, Swindle added.

Finally, how do you know why McCain left his wife? Were you there? Are you psychic as well as being a super fighter pilot? Your powers are indeed impressive. And are you sure you want to get into a pissing match about marital fidelity involving a man running for President?

 

[Drift3r]

Sorry Karl Rove and his Swift Boat friends already proved how much he doesn't deserve our respect.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

No, because he doesn´t espouse the same view as the mindless uberpatriots, so they don´t recognize his service.

I clearly recall the Republicans honoring Kerry at their own convention, in a moving tribute where they all wore little bandages to show their respect for his service.

Actually, I don´t equate all republicans with mindless uberpatriots. However, virtually all mindless uberpatriots do vote republican, as does the extreme religious right, and the extremely wealthy.

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: Thump553
Further, doesn't our country have a pretty spotty record with military leaders as Presidents? The only two I can think of off-hand are U.S. Grant (the only President impeached besides Bill Clinton) and Eisenhower (an average to slightly above average President in my opinion).

How the hell did you not think of George Washington off the top of your head???

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: Thump553
Further, doesn't our country have a pretty spotty record with military leaders as Presidents? The only two I can think of off-hand are U.S. Grant (the only President impeached besides Bill Clinton) and Eisenhower (an average to slightly above average President in my opinion).

How the hell did you not think of George Washington off the top of your head???

Or Teddy.

 

[Thump553]

What can I say-brainfart. Definately should hav included Washington, Zachary Taylor and Andrew Jackson. All the others listed in the wiki article (thanks lupi) were either sub-general level, bogus (Reagan-he spent WWII in Hollywood, for pete's sake & GWB's reserve "duty" in lieu of Vietnam) or a trio of really obscure Presidents.

This is not to say the others may not have had honorable service-the first George Bush and JFK were genuine war heroes. My point was their military service had very little bearing upon their qualifications for the Presidency.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
This thread proves that the neo-Libs (like RightIsWrong and many others) will stop at nothing to twist information and discredit ANYONE with a (R) behind their name. If you've got a beef with McCain on an issue...that's one thing...but to marginalize this man's POW experiences on the sole basis of his party affiliation is sick and ugly.

Both McCain and Obama are honorable men and both deserve some semblance of respect regardless of whether you agree with them or not. There are so many here filled with hate and intolerance...it's now elevated into a hysteria. Neo-cons have really screwed up this nation...now it looks like neo-Libs want to finish the job.

First things first....WTF is a "neo-lib"?

Secondly, where did I marginalize his POW status? By factually stating that he was shot down? By factually stating that he said he would talk in exchange for medical treatment?

I'm not highlighting these because of his party affiliation. I am highlighting these because they are the topic of this thread. Why don't you go and find a single thread that I have started about McCain. Better yet, go and find a single post in any McCain thread that was started by anyone that I strayed from the actual subject in the OP and wasn't based on facts as stated by him or his voting record.

If someone were to start a thread glowingly stating that Obama deserved nothing but respect because he was a Harvard grad, it is perfectly acceptable to bring into question whether or not his grades were at or near the top of his class. Did he get into school based on his merits or connections?

Edit: I figured out what a neo-lib is. It is some right wing euphemism that is trying to equate their insecurities of being associated with neo-conservatism and the 8th deadly sin of being a liberal. They figure if they make up some new word that incorporates the failure that is neo-conservatism with the irrational mocking of liberalism, they have a sure-fire moniker for the brain-dead followers.

RightIsWrong...you plainly cannot see what I'm talking about. You look through a microscope and magnify "facts" to fit into your twisted partisan worldview.

So...your big beef is that he lost his 5th aircraft when he was shot down over Hanoi? Or that he may have offered information on the brink of consciousness to save his life? You apparently missed all those examples of courage in the face of extreme adversity. When you look past everything else that happened and focus criticism on these small things...I call it marginalization.

Do you expect me to believe that you would make the similar comments if he were a Democrat? Right...I read enough of your posts to know better. But I'm sure that you believe it?if that's any comfort to you.

FYI, I used the term Neo-Lib to describe those with an extremist liberal ideology...perhaps I should have used the term shameless "partisan hack" to describe you...your choice.

Losing 5 planes is a heroic endeavor now? If you think that is something small that shouldn't be looked at as a mistake, then it is you who is the partisan hack.

My "beef" isn't that he lost #5 over Hanoi. It is that the article in the OP is a fluff peace that even the most tenured porn star wouldn't be able to compete with. It reeks of partisan toilet paper like quality and completely ignores reality in a lot of ways.

Does the "author" mention that McCain lost 4 other planes?

Does the "author" mention that McCain offered to talk?

Does the "author" mention that McCain dumped his wife almost immediately after returning and finding her disfigured due to a car accident?

You get the point...I hope.

I don't begrudge McCain for offering to talk for medical attention. I have already stated that I can state with 99.99% certainty that I would have too in his position.

I do begrudge that someone that lost 5 planes is considered a hero because he was lucky enough to survive all of the crashes and then got tortured because the 5th wasn't on friendly soil.

I do begrudge him for abandoning his family.

Oh, and for the record, some of my "greatest hits":

Regarding Hillary and fundraising:

If she or anyone on her staff had direct knowledge, they should be punished according to the law.

If Hillary is complicit in any of this then she deserves the same fate as DeLay.

No, I don't mean being promoted to the top spots in the party. No, not having the ethics rules re-written to allow her to serve while under suspicion. No, not demoting the head of the ethics committee because (s)he stands up for the rules and looks like he might go against DeLay. No, not trying to change the rules to call any stalemate (5D/5R on the committee) basically being a draw and no action being taken against the accused.

Indicted and forced from government. YES, that's the one she would deserve.

Regarding Spitzer:

if indicted, Spitzer should resign immediately. He betrayed the public trust (I really don't care what he did in his marital relationship b/c that is none of my business) and should accept the consequences.

If he is NOT indicted, he should still resign but I don't care if he stays.

I could pull of a truckload of other posts where I have been critical of Democrats if the search function worked better. I think you should do a little more research when calling someone a partisan.

Rationalize this for me....on one hand you say Spitzer's (D) marital relationship is none of your business...then on the other you soundly criticize McCain (R) for leaving his wife. RightIsWrong...you're so full of crap. The sad part is that you're so self-deluded that you can't smell the reek...I guess you've got used to it over the years.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
This thread proves that the neo-Libs (like RightIsWrong and many others) will stop at nothing to twist information and discredit ANYONE with a (R) behind their name. If you've got a beef with McCain on an issue...that's one thing...but to marginalize this man's POW experiences on the sole basis of his party affiliation is sick and ugly.

Both McCain and Obama are honorable men and both deserve some semblance of respect regardless of whether you agree with them or not. There are so many here filled with hate and intolerance...it's now elevated into a hysteria. Neo-cons have really screwed up this nation...now it looks like neo-Libs want to finish the job.

First things first....WTF is a "neo-lib"?

Secondly, where did I marginalize his POW status? By factually stating that he was shot down? By factually stating that he said he would talk in exchange for medical treatment?

I'm not highlighting these because of his party affiliation. I am highlighting these because they are the topic of this thread. Why don't you go and find a single thread that I have started about McCain. Better yet, go and find a single post in any McCain thread that was started by anyone that I strayed from the actual subject in the OP and wasn't based on facts as stated by him or his voting record.

If someone were to start a thread glowingly stating that Obama deserved nothing but respect because he was a Harvard grad, it is perfectly acceptable to bring into question whether or not his grades were at or near the top of his class. Did he get into school based on his merits or connections?

Edit: I figured out what a neo-lib is. It is some right wing euphemism that is trying to equate their insecurities of being associated with neo-conservatism and the 8th deadly sin of being a liberal. They figure if they make up some new word that incorporates the failure that is neo-conservatism with the irrational mocking of liberalism, they have a sure-fire moniker for the brain-dead followers.

RightIsWrong...you plainly cannot see what I'm talking about. You look through a microscope and magnify "facts" to fit into your twisted partisan worldview.

So...your big beef is that he lost his 5th aircraft when he was shot down over Hanoi? Or that he may have offered information on the brink of consciousness to save his life? You apparently missed all those examples of courage in the face of extreme adversity. When you look past everything else that happened and focus criticism on these small things...I call it marginalization.

Do you expect me to believe that you would make the similar comments if he were a Democrat? Right...I read enough of your posts to know better. But I'm sure that you believe it?if that's any comfort to you.

FYI, I used the term Neo-Lib to describe those with an extremist liberal ideology...perhaps I should have used the term shameless "partisan hack" to describe you...your choice.

Losing 5 planes is a heroic endeavor now? If you think that is something small that shouldn't be looked at as a mistake, then it is you who is the partisan hack.

My "beef" isn't that he lost #5 over Hanoi. It is that the article in the OP is a fluff peace that even the most tenured porn star wouldn't be able to compete with. It reeks of partisan toilet paper like quality and completely ignores reality in a lot of ways.

Does the "author" mention that McCain lost 4 other planes?

Does the "author" mention that McCain offered to talk?

Does the "author" mention that McCain dumped his wife almost immediately after returning and finding her disfigured due to a car accident?

You get the point...I hope.

I don't begrudge McCain for offering to talk for medical attention. I have already stated that I can state with 99.99% certainty that I would have too in his position.

I do begrudge that someone that lost 5 planes is considered a hero because he was lucky enough to survive all of the crashes and then got tortured because the 5th wasn't on friendly soil.

I do begrudge him for abandoning his family.

Oh, and for the record, some of my "greatest hits":

Regarding Hillary and fundraising:

If she or anyone on her staff had direct knowledge, they should be punished according to the law.

If Hillary is complicit in any of this then she deserves the same fate as DeLay.

No, I don't mean being promoted to the top spots in the party. No, not having the ethics rules re-written to allow her to serve while under suspicion. No, not demoting the head of the ethics committee because (s)he stands up for the rules and looks like he might go against DeLay. No, not trying to change the rules to call any stalemate (5D/5R on the committee) basically being a draw and no action being taken against the accused.

Indicted and forced from government. YES, that's the one she would deserve.

Regarding Spitzer:

if indicted, Spitzer should resign immediately. He betrayed the public trust (I really don't care what he did in his marital relationship b/c that is none of my business) and should accept the consequences.

If he is NOT indicted, he should still resign but I don't care if he stays.

I could pull of a truckload of other posts where I have been critical of Democrats if the search function worked better. I think you should do a little more research when calling someone a partisan.

Rationalize this for me....on one hand you say Spitzer's (D) marital relationship is none of your business...then on the other you soundly criticize McCain (R) for leaving his wife. RightIsWrong...you're so full of crap. The sad part is that you're so self-deluded that you can't smell the reek...I guess you've got used to it over the years.

Let me spell it out for you...the "author" of the OP is actually McCain. It is a first person account. He is telling the tale of how wonderful and brave he was without mentioning anything negative about himself (other than what I believe was an unintentional slip about offering to talk for medical treatment).

The original story is a fluff piece that was published because of McCain being a McCain and his family being who they were. How many other POWs got multi-page (>10 in this case) first person accounts published in U.S. News and World Report or any other magazine?

I can see/understand where the McCain/Spitzer affairs come off hypocritical and will concede that it is.

I just find it more despicable that someone that claims that they are such a family man cheats on a partially crippled spouse who was tasked with raising his three children (one "natural", two adopted) while he was being detained and then marries some rich, young beauty queen before the ink has even dried on the divorce paperwork.

If you notice however, I don't claim that McCain should have resigned over his because he was not in public office unlike I do for Spitzer. Neither should be part of the public spotlight unless you are going to be the hypocrite that both of these men are (Spitzer as AG going after prostitution rings and McCain as a Senator claiming to be a devout family man who campaigns for the "Sanctity of Marriage").

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
This thread proves that the neo-Libs (like RightIsWrong and many others) will stop at nothing to twist information and discredit ANYONE with a (R) behind their name. If you've got a beef with McCain on an issue...that's one thing...but to marginalize this man's POW experiences on the sole basis of his party affiliation is sick and ugly.

Both McCain and Obama are honorable men and both deserve some semblance of respect regardless of whether you agree with them or not. There are so many here filled with hate and intolerance...it's now elevated into a hysteria. Neo-cons have really screwed up this nation...now it looks like neo-Libs want to finish the job.

First things first....WTF is a "neo-lib"?

Secondly, where did I marginalize his POW status? By factually stating that he was shot down? By factually stating that he said he would talk in exchange for medical treatment?

I'm not highlighting these because of his party affiliation. I am highlighting these because they are the topic of this thread. Why don't you go and find a single thread that I have started about McCain. Better yet, go and find a single post in any McCain thread that was started by anyone that I strayed from the actual subject in the OP and wasn't based on facts as stated by him or his voting record.

If someone were to start a thread glowingly stating that Obama deserved nothing but respect because he was a Harvard grad, it is perfectly acceptable to bring into question whether or not his grades were at or near the top of his class. Did he get into school based on his merits or connections?

Edit: I figured out what a neo-lib is. It is some right wing euphemism that is trying to equate their insecurities of being associated with neo-conservatism and the 8th deadly sin of being a liberal. They figure if they make up some new word that incorporates the failure that is neo-conservatism with the irrational mocking of liberalism, they have a sure-fire moniker for the brain-dead followers.

RightIsWrong...you plainly cannot see what I'm talking about. You look through a microscope and magnify "facts" to fit into your twisted partisan worldview.

So...your big beef is that he lost his 5th aircraft when he was shot down over Hanoi? Or that he may have offered information on the brink of consciousness to save his life? You apparently missed all those examples of courage in the face of extreme adversity. When you look past everything else that happened and focus criticism on these small things...I call it marginalization.

Do you expect me to believe that you would make the similar comments if he were a Democrat? Right...I read enough of your posts to know better. But I'm sure that you believe it?if that's any comfort to you.

FYI, I used the term Neo-Lib to describe those with an extremist liberal ideology...perhaps I should have used the term shameless "partisan hack" to describe you...your choice.

Losing 5 planes is a heroic endeavor now? If you think that is something small that shouldn't be looked at as a mistake, then it is you who is the partisan hack.

My "beef" isn't that he lost #5 over Hanoi. It is that the article in the OP is a fluff peace that even the most tenured porn star wouldn't be able to compete with. It reeks of partisan toilet paper like quality and completely ignores reality in a lot of ways.

Does the "author" mention that McCain lost 4 other planes?

Does the "author" mention that McCain offered to talk?

Does the "author" mention that McCain dumped his wife almost immediately after returning and finding her disfigured due to a car accident?

You get the point...I hope.

I don't begrudge McCain for offering to talk for medical attention. I have already stated that I can state with 99.99% certainty that I would have too in his position.

I do begrudge that someone that lost 5 planes is considered a hero because he was lucky enough to survive all of the crashes and then got tortured because the 5th wasn't on friendly soil.

I do begrudge him for abandoning his family.

Oh, and for the record, some of my "greatest hits":

Regarding Hillary and fundraising:

If she or anyone on her staff had direct knowledge, they should be punished according to the law.

If Hillary is complicit in any of this then she deserves the same fate as DeLay.

No, I don't mean being promoted to the top spots in the party. No, not having the ethics rules re-written to allow her to serve while under suspicion. No, not demoting the head of the ethics committee because (s)he stands up for the rules and looks like he might go against DeLay. No, not trying to change the rules to call any stalemate (5D/5R on the committee) basically being a draw and no action being taken against the accused.

Indicted and forced from government. YES, that's the one she would deserve.

Regarding Spitzer:

if indicted, Spitzer should resign immediately. He betrayed the public trust (I really don't care what he did in his marital relationship b/c that is none of my business) and should accept the consequences.

If he is NOT indicted, he should still resign but I don't care if he stays.

I could pull of a truckload of other posts where I have been critical of Democrats if the search function worked better. I think you should do a little more research when calling someone a partisan.

Rationalize this for me....on one hand you say Spitzer's (D) marital relationship is none of your business...then on the other you soundly criticize McCain (R) for leaving his wife. RightIsWrong...you're so full of crap. The sad part is that you're so self-deluded that you can't smell the reek...I guess you've got used to it over the years.

Let me spell it out for you...the "author" of the OP is actually McCain. It is a first person account. He is telling the tale of how wonderful and brave he was without mentioning anything negative about himself (other than what I believe was an unintentional slip about offering to talk for medical treatment).

The original story is a fluff piece that was published because of McCain being a McCain and his family being who they were. How many other POWs got multi-page (>10 in this case) first person accounts published in U.S. News and World Report or any other magazine?

I can see/understand where the McCain/Spitzer affairs come off hypocritical and will concede that it is.

I just find it more despicable that someone that claims that they are such a family man cheats on a partially crippled spouse who was tasked with raising his three children (one "natural", two adopted) while he was being detained and then marries some rich, young beauty queen before the ink has even dried on the divorce paperwork.

If you notice however, I don't claim that McCain should have resigned over his because he was not in public office unlike I do for Spitzer. Neither should be part of the public spotlight unless you are going to be the hypocrite that both of these men are (Spitzer as AG going after prostitution rings and McCain as a Senator claiming to be a devout family man who campaigns for the "Sanctity of Marriage").

Lol...comparing the loss of 5 aircraft and McCain's marital problems to potential crimes committed by Clinton and Spitzer...and this is your proof that that you're not partisan? And he's the despicable one?

It appears that the family values issue is a major hot button for you. Question: Is it that you place family values in such esteem that you find McCain's marital problems despicable? Or perhaps you hold him and other Republicans to such high standards on this issue that not one can meet your little litmus test for hypocrisy? Then again, are you advocating that only perfect people can stand for family values? I must be missing something here...please shed some light on this.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Lol...comparing the loss of 5 aircraft and McCain's marital problems to potential crimes committed by Clinton and Spitzer...and this is your proof that that you're not partisan? And he's the despicable one?

It appears that the family values issue is a major hot button for you. Question: Is it that you place family values in such esteem that you find McCain's marital problems despicable? Or perhaps you hold him and other Republicans to such high standards on this issue that not one can meet your little litmus test for hypocrisy? Then again, are you advocating that only perfect people can stand for family values? I must be missing something here...please shed some light on this.

Actually, family values isn't a major issue for me and I don't usually care about them unless the candidate is touting them (which is primarily a (R) trait). What is a major issue for me is the hypocrisy in doing so.

I don't fault McCain for divorcing his first wife. I do fault him for seemingly displaying no consideration for her skirt chasing all over the country and marrying his new wife less than 2 months after the first ended (pretty sure that was because he had already met her and gotten "familiar" with her). I also do fault him for denying gays the right to have the chance to make the same mistake that he did.

I also didn't/don't exonerate Clinton or Spitzer for their affairs. I have clearly stated that they are wrong based on my own values but also none of my business.

I also am more than willing to admit that I have my own little hypocritical tendencies that I display and they eat at me also. I continually try to be objective and sometimes fall way short. Unfortunately, there are people like you that don't notice or try to deny that I have admitted to my shortcomings.

And yet you (collective noun) are unable to share your own out of some insecure feeling of weakness. I'll let you in on a little secret....it takes a stronger person to admit their faults than it does to hide them. Maybe you should try it some time. After all, I'm sure that I can find plenty of instances of your partisanship and/or hypocrisy also if I dug around. But let's just continue down the path of trying to spotlight mine (which are hiding in plain sight) instead of admitting to your own.